background check question

[flaps30degrees]

Hello all,
I'm not proud to ask this at all. But I have to know as I'm already in the process of taking my PPL and plan to obtain my CPL. So one day I will be faced with going through a background check for an airline and TC airport clearance.

History:
In 2004 I was charged with frau* over 5k and was given a conditional discharge. Since then I have checked out my record and have solid confirmation that there is nothing on it (I have seen the print outs that can be obtained at any local police station and they are all blank). I also do not have a problem crossing the border into the US or any other country. As I've travelled recently to the US and abroard and had no problems. I was told however that a record of my conditional discharge would appear on the Federal level of records and that it would take a few years (I'm not sure how many now) for that to come off.

The question:
My question is: given this info, when I apply for an 1. airline and 2.airport position (as I plan on working at the airport while completing my training) in which TC or any other type of clearance is required, will my conditional discharge show up ? Does the TC/airport/airline clearance criminal background check go as deep as the Federal level of records? Do they check all levels of records ? I am all for being honest, and will if I have to. But as I'm sure you will agree, I do not want to mention this part of my life (an obvious mistake in judgement on my part) to any interviewer or fill it out on any application if I don't have to. I have been living with the shame of this event for many years and would like to keep it to myself as much as possible. Sharing this with avcanada has been extremely hard for me to do, but I need to know as its very important to me. Flying and becoming a Pilot is my dream (as it is for all of us here)

Your sensitivity towards this situation is greatly appreciated. Please respond if you can shed some light on my question.

I thank you in advance.

[fish4life]

that's ok it's no worse than getting hired for a company then leaving a month after they type rate you... pretty much the same thing

[cdnpilot77]

The Your sympathy in this sensitive situation is greatly appreciated. Please respond if you can shed some light on my question.

I am not so sure you will get a lot of genuine sympathy from this crowd, but you correct is asking before you spend the thousands of dollars on training to find out there will be problems with airside passes etc. I would however, probably advise you to speak to someone that would be more closely aligned with your legal obligations and rights ie: Labour Lawyer. This may cost you some money but the information will be 100% accurate and will not leave questions marks or grey areas.

I believe this type of scenario has come up before and received some very mixed messages so I would tend to lean towards getting the help of professionals (as many on this site and my wife advise me too but for entirely different reasons )

[bizjets101]

Answer; You do not have a criminal record, you do not have a conviction - when applying for work - state you do not have a criminal record - if anyone runs a criminal background check on you - nothing will show up.

Three years from the date of being sentenced, having met the condition of your conditional discharge - the Federal record is wiped clean.

Mulroney pockets a couple hundred thousand in cash - no charges, the head of the RCMP forced out - no charges, another 100 milllion plus ripped off in Sponsorship Scandal and CIBC gets to pay a 2.4 billion dollar fine, and nobody bothers to investigate.

Welcome to Canada - you however didn't get charged with a big enough fraud!!!!!!

All conditional discharges received on or after July 24, 1992 , are removed from the criminal record three (3) years following the date of the sentence.

Conditional Discharges
A conditional discharge occurs when a person is found guilty but the judge enters a discharge instead of a conviction. There are two kinds of discharges; conditional and absolute. A conditional discharge comes with requirements such as probation, counselling, etc. which must be fulfilled before the conviction is discharged, whereas an absolute discharge is immediate. If the conditions are not fulfilled, then the person is convicted of the original offence and sentenced accordingly. Source.

Unlike convictions, discharges do not appear on a person's criminal record. Also, a person who receives a discharge can honestly say that they have never been convicted of a criminal offence, which can be very helpful in an employment or immigration context. Source.

[flaps30degrees]

Thank you for your direct (well sourced) answer.

[albertdesalvo]

Tread carefully. There are many cases where data that should have been removed from CPIC was not.

[flaps30degrees]

Thank you for your word of caution.

Just found this:

"Cases ending in a conditional or absolute discharge, while not considered a conviction, are also tracked but are no longer nationally accessible following three- and one-year periods, respectively."

sourced from: http://www.thestar.com/specialsections/ ... cpic-works

[bizjets101]

Just a reminder - You did not receive a criminal conviction - nor did you receive a criminal record.

Under the current law the RCMP must purge your conditional discharge 3 years from your court date. However on the off chance something is there, fill out the following form and send it registered mail.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/form/3953.pdf

[V1RotateV2]

You have been charged, not convicted.
The truthful answer to the question you will be asked, in this industry and in every other job application is:

"Have you been convicted of a crime for which a pardon has not been granted?" Check the NO box, you would not be lying.

You can be charged with any number of crimes but, until you are convicted, your record is clean and you should not have any problems.

Now, whether flying will make a good and rewarding career for you, there are plenty of other threads that you should read before spending thousands of dollars pursuing it.

[Jungle Jim]

You will probably be a good person to hire since you were obviously not too good in the fraud department.

Jim

[Walker]

Who does airside passes these days? RCMP or CSIS?

[albertdesalvo]

You can be charged with any number of crimes but, until you are convicted, your record is clean and you should not have any problems.

Technically, yes, but the reality is somwhat different. CPIC not only keeps records of people charged but not convicted, it keeps errors that follow people for life. I'm not talking out my ass here, this is from personal experience. Let me explain:

Back in the stone age when I was 16 or 17, I was involved in some shenanigans where a friend borrowed a Pontiac, it was reported stolen, and a bunch of us got charged with auto theft. Eventually it was all sorted out, and at court the charges against me were withdrawn at the request of the Crown. No harm, no foul, right?

WRONG! Ten years later, my girlfriend and I were headed to Buffalo for a little cross-border Christmas shopping. For whatever reason, we were selected by the US agents for secondary inspection, and the shit hit the fan big time! I was told by US Immigration "you have been convicted of auto theft, you cannot enter the United States."

"Whoa", sez I, "that's not true at all. I have not been convicted of auto theft. Where on earth did you get that idea?"

"The information is from the OPP. It is accurate, and you are lying."

Now what are you supposed to do in a situation like this? Meanwhile, they have my girlfriend in another room grilling her about god-knows-what, and they are tearing her Camaro apart. She emerges in tears, and when she sees what they've done to her car.... well, let's just say she wasn't my girlfriend much longer.

Eventually they told us to turn around and go home, and the last thing the officer said to me was, "Don't try to come back here. If you do, we will arrest you and confiscate your car."

So for all you faithful who think the records are accurate and proper procedures are followed, think again.

[BingBong]

why would you ask Av Canada on this matter....ask the government or call up a random airline and ask THEM.

I could tell you that they do a federal criminal check, rectal exam, urine test, psyc test, zero gravity test, how much alcohol you could consume in an hour test, lego building challenge.

Would you believe me?

[Walker]

Wasn't there something a while ago in the news were some dude grabbed some drive through a McDicks or something and parked on the street to eat it. His truck was photographed because as it would seem 2 houses down from where he parked there was a building owned by an angel. Some years later dude goes to get a security clearance and is denied, tries to do something about it but the courts won't touch it so his only course of action was to go to the press... Which I suspect also ended up nowhere...

[cncpc]

Answer; You do not have a criminal record, you do not have a conviction - when applying for work - state you do not have a criminal record - if anyone runs a criminal background check on you - nothing will show up.

Three years from the date of being sentenced, having met the condition of your conditional discharge - the Federal record is wiped clean.

Mulroney pockets a couple hundred thousand in cash - no charges, the head of the RCMP forced out - no charges, another 100 milllion plus ripped off in Sponsorship Scandal and CIBC gets to pay a 2.4 billion dollar fine, and nobody bothers to investigate.

Welcome to Canada - you however didn't get charged with a big enough fraud!!!!!!

All conditional discharges received on or after July 24, 1992 , are removed from the criminal record three (3) years following the date of the sentence.

Conditional Discharges
A conditional discharge occurs when a person is found guilty but the judge enters a discharge instead of a conviction. There are two kinds of discharges; conditional and absolute. A conditional discharge comes with requirements such as probation, counselling, etc. which must be fulfilled before the conviction is discharged, whereas an absolute discharge is immediate. If the conditions are not fulfilled, then the person is convicted of the original offence and sentenced accordingly. Source.

Unlike convictions, discharges do not appear on a person's criminal record. Also, a person who receives a discharge can honestly say that they have never been convicted of a criminal offence, which can be very helpful in an employment or immigration context. Source.

Great response, bizjets.

As to your stuff on Mulroney et al, well said as well. I like this quote from the French philosopher Anatole France "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

To the thread starter: Despite all that is said here, you will find the worst of pilots on here, desperate to create a job out of their poor skills by reducing the supply of pilots by one, trying to tell you a lot of rubbish about criminal records and why you shouldn't even bother starting out.

[cncpc]

You can be charged with any number of crimes but, until you are convicted, your record is clean and you should not have any problems.

Technically, yes, but the reality is somwhat different. CPIC not only keeps records of people charged but not convicted, it keeps errors that follow people for life. I'm not talking out my ass here, this is from personal experience. Let me explain:

Back in the stone age when I was 16 or 17, I was involved in some shenanigans where a friend borrowed a Pontiac, it was reported stolen, and a bunch of us got charged with auto theft. Eventually it was all sorted out, and at court the charges against me were withdrawn at the request of the Crown. No harm, no foul, right?

WRONG! Ten years later, my girlfriend and I were headed to Buffalo for a little cross-border Christmas shopping. For whatever reason, we were selected by the US agents for secondary inspection, and the shit hit the fan big time! I was told by US Immigration "you have been convicted of auto theft, you cannot enter the United States."

"Whoa", sez I, "that's not true at all. I have not been convicted of auto theft. Where on earth did you get that idea?"

"The information is from the OPP. It is accurate, and you are lying."

Now what are you supposed to do in a situation like this? Meanwhile, they have my girlfriend in another room grilling her about god-knows-what, and they are tearing her Camaro apart. She emerges in tears, and when she sees what they've done to her car.... well, let's just say she wasn't my girlfriend much longer.

Eventually they told us to turn around and go home, and the last thing the officer said to me was, "Don't try to come back here. If you do, we will arrest you and confiscate your car."

So for all you faithful who think the records are accurate and proper procedures are followed, think again.

Sorry to hear about that bad day, Albert, but all withdrawn charges are supposed to be removed from your criminal history after five years. They call it criminal history now, so that they can include rumors and the like.

Of course, having the name Albert de Salvo may be a lifelong burden at border crossings.

I do recommend that you make a formal enquiry to whatever alphabet organization runs the border now to determine your status. If they tell you you have been convicted, get a letter from the police wherever it was that says you were not convicted. Send it to the Yanks and politely ask to have your status changed.

[albertdesalvo]

Sorry to hear about that bad day, Albert, but all withdrawn charges are supposed to be removed from your criminal history after five years. They call it criminal history now, so that they can include rumors and the like.

Supposed to be..... doesn't mean it happens. Rumours... good one.

Of course, having the name Albert de Salvo may be a lifelong burden at border crossings.

Of course, that name could be fictitious. I might even be female. Ya just never know on the internet, do you?

Send it to the Yanks and politely ask to have your status changed.

F*ck 'em, I don't need them. That was back in the early 80s and I've been doing just fine without the US since then.