Throw in the towel..yes? No?

[Dusty flaps]

I'm in my early 40's and have been in and out of aviation for the last 20 years. Mostly out I guess. However, there is this little voice (or maybe devil on my shoulder) always calling me back. I'm sure some of you can relate but I've always been in the right place at the wrong time...current license when times were slow and expired when times were good. I could never time the industry up/down cycle correctly...and often ran out of cash to keep flying and stay current. However, the dream still lives and here I am posting this question.

"Throw in the towel? Yes or No?"

Is 40+ years old too old to restart a career in aviation? I have an expired multi ifr and class 3 rating with 950 TT and 60 mulit. It's been about 7 years since I've flown (lots of rust) and speaking with some airline friends even if I renewed my rating chief pilots would frown on the length of time away from flying despite having close to 1000 hrs.

Simply asking for advice, comments or opinions...all are welcome and thank you in advance.

[Changes in Latitudes]

Does your current job/career pay the bills? Do you have dependants (spouse, kids, family)? A lot has to do with external variables and your ability to move around to odd locales. At the same time, there's nothing wrong with staying involved with aviation through spending time at your local flying club on the weekends or owning a share in a small aircraft.

[skydivepilot]

I'm in a similar situation (38 years old, 1400 hours, expired IFR) but I am sticking with it. I stopped flying for almost 5 years but one flight in a rented 172 rekindled my love for flying. Since then, I got back into flying skydivers and got my foot in the door at my dream flying job. I've had 2 seasons of part time work their and am hoping for full time in the future. I had given up on flying but am very happy I got back into it. I have a wife and 2 kids and they support my choice. You only live once so choose what makes you happy.

[sandbagger757]

The industry could not be at it's worst. Stay where you are!

[short bus]

What?? this is nothing compared to how bad it was in 2002-2003. At least major airlines are hiring these days....

[snoopy]

If you want to fly - fly! If that is the thing you most want to do, then if you want it bad enough you'll find a way to make it happen. There are lots of float/camp jobs where you can have a lot of fun and likely make some tips, or you can always go the co-jo/future captain route with a small air taxi/commuter service. Just know that you're likely not going to get rich money wise, but you will be rich in experience. If you don't have float experience, try to find an air taxi operator with a mix of piston singles and light twins. You can break in on the singles and work your way into the multi/two-crew stuff later. Volunteer to go where no-one else wants to go, and do it with sincerity and enthusiasm. Don't focus on the negative side of your absences - focus on the positives, and the things that keep drawing you back to aviation. If you have a spouse, make sure she/he knows what they're in for and supports you in this venture or you might end up sacrificing more than you planned on.
Good luck in whatever you decide!
Cheers,
Kirsten B.

[wallypilot]

The industry could not be at it's worst. Stay where you are!

This is definitely not true. Industry is not going crazy, obviously, but all majors are hiring, there is some movement. Industry has been worse. For a motivated job seeker, there is opportunity.

It's hard on family, though, if you have spouse & kids(assuming you have those). But if they are supportive, then you should do what you really want to do. In the niche parts of the industry, the employment experience can still be very good. in the mainstream IFR world, at the lower levels, job satisfaction, on average, is pretty low. Go for less common types of work (float, camp, survey) amd expect to be better paid, and work for better companies than in the dog-eat-dog world of entry level IFR flying with 703/704 operators in the south. There are some good 703/704 operators out there, but expect stiff competition for relatively few positions at such places.

[sandbagger757]

I suppose I was rather abrupt what I said earlier about the industry being at it's worst. Despite what others are saying about this being false and that the "majors" are hiring, I for one know it's pretty bleak out there. There are many ex-Skyservice, Zoom and Canada 3000 pilots either still unemployed or quit the industry all together. It's now an "employers market" and when I started out more than 20 years ago, there were a few times I was hired at various companies without even an interview! Companies can now pick and choose at will. Unlike yesteryear, huge emphasis nowadays is placed on not necessarily WHAT you know but rather on WHO you know. If you are a man in his early 40's, I would assume you must have clawed up whatever career ladder and are making enough money to pay the bills, support a family and have a cushy RRSP/pension portfolio going. "WALLY PILOT" AND "SHORT BUS" give the false impression that it's a hiring "extravaganza" out there. Sure the "majors" ARE hiring but it's few and again, it's an "employers market" and with your experience and age, I'll be brutally honest...it's not going to happen. If you're lucky enough to get hired with the smaller outfits, be prepared to make huge financial sacrafices. For a forty-something year old guy, that's paramount to "herculean". "SNOOPY" has a good point though; "...if you want to fly...fly!"
Best of luck in your decision!

[wordstwice]

I disagree with Sandbagger.....

I went back into aviation after a long absence and after 3 years I am now a Captain of a large Turboprop (over 60,000lbs) and make close to 100K/year working less than half the month (with an upcoming GS at AC). I didn't know anyone in the industry that got me a job nor was given any favours.

It can be done and I am extremely happy that I took the chance. Do what you need to do for yourself but be wary of people who put a dark cloud on this industry.

Remember this, we rarely hear about the positive stories but there are lot of them and I feel I am living proof.

Best of luck

[warbirdpilot7]

What?? this is nothing compared to how bad it was in 2002-2003. At least major airlines are hiring these days....

Yes, the majors are hiring.........Lots of people with less time then these people who are out of work.

If you are comfortable, dont give up what you have.

[JTF01]

Hang in there.....good things usually come to those that work hard and keep a positive attitude. Its not easy, but stay upbeat, network, keep working hard, and things will get better.

JTF

[North Shore]

I'm in my early 40's and have been in and out of aviation for the last 20 years. Mostly out I guess.

Difficult to talk about, perhaps, but why have you been mostly out? To be blunt, are you any good, or are you 'that guy', or a 'difficult' employee? Those are, perhaps, questions that you should ask yourself before you leap in with both feet. If your mostly out has been because you've been doing flying jobs for (say) $10/hr and you can make $20/$30/$40 swinging a hammer, with less BS, then that's fine and good; OTOH, if it was because of some of the other reasons above, then perhaps this might not be the smartest move for you to make.. insanity being defined as doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result each time..

Good Luck, whatever you decide..

[short bus]

"WALLY PILOT" AND "SHORT BUS" give the false impression that it's a hiring "extravaganza" out there.

Give your head a shake. Nowhere in my post did I say anything like that at all so I'd appreciate it if you don't put words in my mouth.

Once again, I was merely pointing out that this is nowhere near as bad as the several years after 2001. If you were around back then you'd agree. I'd be surprised to hear anyone disagree with that who was looking for work back then.

[sandbagger757]

I disagree with Sandbagger.....

I went back into aviation after a long absence and after 3 years I am now a Captain of a large Turboprop (over 60,000lbs) and make close to 100K/year working less than half the month (with an upcoming GS at AC). I didn't know anyone in the industry that got me a job nor was given any favours.

It can be done and I am extremely happy that I took the chance. Do what you need to do for yourself but be wary of people who put a dark cloud on this industry.

Remember this, we rarely hear about the positive stories but there are lot of them and I feel I am living proof.

Best of luck

Indeed there are success stories and it's true it is NOT all doom and gloom like I may have suggested. I'm glad things worked out for you "WORDSTWICE".

[sandbagger757]

What?? this is nothing compared to how bad it was in 2002-2003. At least major airlines are hiring these days....

Yes, the majors are hiring.........Lots of people with less time then these people who are out of work.

If you are comfortable, dont give up what you have.

There you go! Well put "WARBIRDPILOT7".

[airturd]

I think everyone should look at a career in aviation like a career in music. If you have to ask yourself "Should I do this?", then you shouldn't be doing it. You really should only get into this business if you can't picture yourself doing anything else. And like the music business, although there are people who succeed in spite of a lack of talent and/or drive and become very successful, the majority of people work extremely hard for a long time without much reward.

From another, even more cynical point of view, if all the people currently in aviation who don't really love flying purely for the joy of flying (and I'm thinking it's a sizeable amount) quit tomorrow, the wages and working conditions would improve dramatically....

[ditar]

From another, even more cynical point of view, if all the people currently in aviation who don't really love flying purely for the joy of flying (and I'm thinking it's a sizeable amount) quit tomorrow, the wages and working conditions would improve dramatically....

How do you figure? I kind of thought it was the opposite. I like flying but at the end of the day it's a job, not something I do purely for the joy of it. If my wages and working conditions become unsuitable I'll go elsewhere, and then they can staff my position with someone who doesn't care because flying is their "passion".

[skydivepilot]

I think that's a good comparison with the music industry and aviation airturd. I love flying and it is something I would do on my time off work. I have been an avid motorcylist for years and tell people flying for a living is like getting paid to ride my motorcycles. I have only had part time flying jobs but have a good feeling about full time very soon. I say if it is what you want to do, don't give up. I almost did and am very happy to be back in the aviation industry.

[Lost Lake]

I srarted commercialy at 40. I am a northerner and love the bush flying. In my area, the tourist business is dead. (6 operators are now 2). Got my ATPL at the end of the feeding frenzy, 208. I'm movingg on, in aviation. I will miss the commercial flying, but will make twice the money and be able to buy a plane and fly when i want. I will miss the day to day flying for sure.

[petey]

From another, even more cynical point of view, if all the people currently in aviation who don't really love flying purely for the joy of flying (and I'm thinking it's a sizeable amount) quit tomorrow, the wages and working conditions would improve dramatically....

Or, if a lot of people in aviation respected flying as a profession, rather than say "I do it because I love to do it" there wouldn't be nearly the people working for almost nothing and justifying it because their job is more enjoyable than their friends job. Also, unfortunately a lot (not all) of those people you speak of in aviation that don't truly love it aren't qualified to do anything else. So forget that idea. I'd also argue that if all "those" people were to quit that working conditions would suffer rather than improve, in fact, I'd argue that safety would go down dramatically seeing as most of the people I've met who are a little bit jaded with this career are 10-20 thousand hour fellas, who might be grumpy, but have forgot more than I know.

[LegoMan]

Aviation is like that girl you dated. Great memories but you know it wasn't meant to be, that it would never work out. But you still think about her from time to time.

[High and Behind]

I get the idea of the passion and fun of it all, however given your age and total time I would say that you are at a point of not being very marketable to an employer. Not having flown in 7 years is a long time to go not being in the system. And an older guy is more likely to tell the boss to pound sand and quit when he's told to wash his car.

If I could do it all over I would have a different job, make more money and flying would be my hobbie.

Good luck

[skydivepilot]

Don't give up if it is what you want. I stopped flying for 5 years and just landed my dream job this month. I'll be staying there for the next 20+ years

[tsgas]

It's all about PDM . If you can't make up your own mind without help from a bunch of total strangers then are you really suited to be in command? IMHO

Life is all about tradeoffs and risks. There are no guarantees and any time that we waste can never be reclaimed.

[LegoMan]

Ok enough of this already, if you need to come to a forum to have people advise you on your future and your career that means you have not control or decision making abilities. If you cant manage your own life or career then perhaps flying is not something you should continue doing for a living. No to be a douche but comeon man, this is something for you to talk over with your spouse, family and even friends not to strangers on an internet forum. Can you imagine if other professionals in other industries came online to a forum to discuss if they should hang up their hat, looks very unprofessional. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do and make sure the decision is ultimately yours.