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flyinggibbon
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:02 pm 
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I am a former army officer in Australia working on a project in outback Australia . As part of this project we need to be able to lift ATV's and associated trailers etc (seperated if needed) in a single engine or light twin STOL aircraft, has anyone done this or is it the opinion of the forum that I might have more chance of forming an intimate relationship with Claudia Schiffer (gives my age away that doesn't it)?

The dimensions of the ATV are LxWxH of 211.4 x 120.9 x 128.9 cm, weight approx 350KG and the vehicle needs to be able to load without a forklift to lift it on (ie drive on).

My initial thoughts were an AN-2 could do the job (Polish built to get round the experimental cat), however, the door is just a fraction to narrow and as it's a monocoque/spar construction widening the door might be an issue, though we do need upwards of 6 units.

Perhaps a Turbo Porter might do the trick, though I have a feeling the body is to narrow, ideally what I need as a rear clamshell door loading light twin or single or alternately an aircraft that has cargo doors that open both sides to allow the ATV to be moved into position.

I'm trying to avoid the C-212/medium lift aircraft as they will not be economic, the same goes for the beloved chinook of my former life.

Thanks in advance for all and any help.

Best, Flyinggibbon
Best


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Northern Flyer
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:52 pm 
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Hauled tons of atv's and what not in the caravan and otter.


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Bushav8er
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:57 pm 
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If it fits the door it can go. Often you can deflate the tyres or remove them.


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angry inch
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:01 pm 
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How about a Beaver with an "Alaska Door" mod?




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square
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:05 pm 
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Could easily do two in a Caravan. Might take some muscle getting it up the ramps though.


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999
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:26 pm 
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Remove the tires and fold down the handlebars. If you haven't yet purchased the atv you may want to consider a smaller one. Less expensive, lighter weight, more fuel efficient, and usually more reliable.


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capt.pilot
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:42 pm 
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Well.. The ultimate would be the DHC-6.. I have worked in Northern Canada and other locations and if it fits through the door you can fly it. I have had everything from 2 quads gear and people in the plane, to 1000lb drill heads and associated drill steel / parts.

As for cost I don't think the DHC would be much more expensive than a single otter or Porter, but then I just fly them I don't buy them..

The other reason I would take the DHC over anything else is 2 Fans.. Yeah more costs, but safer...

My $.02.. Keep the blue side up...


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ScudRunner
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:29 pm 
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Ive loaded them in Bn2's you got to take the wheels off and the seat and turn it on its side. Then Pivot it around the door frame where the seat was. Pain in the ass but it works I even saw one put into a 206, half hanging out but he got it there.


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208Drvr
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:05 pm 
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Either a twin otter, single turbo otter or caravan can all carry at least one quad plus gear.


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HuD 91gt
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:53 am 
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Not exactly STOL, but as long as you have 1500'(shorter if you really limit the load) a Caravan will do the job.


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flyinggibbon
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:01 am 
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Firstly, my apologies for doing a double tap post.

Secondly, thanks for all the help and ideas generated so far, to answer some of the questions that have come up:

The quad is specific to the contract, so unfortunately this cannot be changed, the reason behind this is pretty much why army units in the Northern Territories used to use Landcruisers not Landrovers (standard 4x4 at the time) on patrol, all the locals had landcruisers so it was easier to get spare parts off the shelf rather than set up a new supply chain, I'm all for hillbilly fixes, but in the real world I'm finding insurance companies, health and safety etc aren't the biggest fan of that approach.

Now having spent half an hour this morning drawing scale diagrams and trying to push a paper quad into the aircraft, I honestly cannot work out how you get one into a caravan or similar, perhaps I've spent too long jumping out of planes and having my tiny brain gradually ground away by those people that generally got paid a lot more than I did yet proportionatly had less of a grip on reality, would it be possible to run me through how you do this? ( Thanks to angry inch for the photo)

In fact, if someone could run me how to do this through a cargo door that is either 155cmx139cm or 165cmx167cm width by height into a fuselage that is 410x180x160 LxWxH, I think I might possibly go to church every Sunday in the realisation there is a god.

Best

Flyinggibbon


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HuD 91gt
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:32 am 
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Image

Image

I can't give dimensions of that quad, but it fit no problem with the trailer pictured above. Looks like your Sundays may be booked up from now on :p That perfectly sized table was actually found at the mine site, We drove it on some lumber onto the table then pushed it in. A simple set of ramps will do the same job.


Last edited by HuD 91gt on Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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rigpiggy
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:50 am 
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GOOOOOAAAAAALLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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flyinggibbon
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:24 am 
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Well, it looks like my life expectancy has just been commuted to 7 days, as on the seventh day, god will be sending a couple of bolts of lightening with my name on them, bugger.... The plus side is that I can now sin to my hearts content for the rest of the week...

What aircraft is that, a Cessna 208?

Did you have to pull the quad through the door on the otherside or is that just open to ease handling? I take it you used manpower to push and shunt the quad into position or did you use an internal cargo winch? I also assume you could get a better angle as the quad is narrower in the middle, so you put the front third in, then rotated it? Note to self, even though I might be simple, not all shapes are.

Thanks so much for all your help, I can now officially say that not only do I love your national game (ice hockey = more violent rugby with sticks), of course your women, I now also love this forum....

Best

Flyinggibbon


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HuD 91gt
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:35 am 
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Cessna Grand Caravan - C208b

The ATV was driven up a couple 4" x 4" pieces of lumber (Or something similar, my memory isn't all that great) onto the ramp. Then pushed in from there. The reason the passenger door is open is most likely (Again memory fades with time) because...

A) The folding stairs(when the door is closed) may have been getting in the way of loading, you can see them pictured in picture number two
B) because that door was used for someone to enter the A/C so they could pull the quad into the aircraft.

Just as you said, once the ATV is halfway through, you can pivot it with some man power (No winches) since it is more narrow between the tires. I'm sure you could fit two quads in there if you really wanted.


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Northern Flyer
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:59 am 
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HuD 91gt wrote:
Image

Image

I can't give dimensions of that quad, but it fit no problem with the trailer pictured above. Looks like your Sundays may be booked up from now on :p That perfectly sized table was actually found at the mine site, We drove it on some lumber onto the table then pushed it in. A simple set of ramps will do the same job.


That quad is on the small side it is an 1986 Honda 350 4x4. I know this because it is one of mine, I rented it to that outfit and they took it to Cullington (sp) lake. Now Mr.HuD was it you or the guys in camp that put a big hole in the seat??? :wink:


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Bushav8er
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:33 am 
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Look at the size of the one he's talking about - 155cmx139cm or 165cmx167cm width by height (61x54 / 65x68 inches) - will it fit through the Van door?


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flyinggibbon
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:43 am 
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Thanks everyone for helping clarify this issue, even if I have unintentionally (for a change) started a minor war.

So, having established loading a quad is possible into a single, which would appear to be easier if you have a flat surface at cargo door height to facilitate the loading, what is the widest body single-engine STOL aircraft with the biggest cargo loading hatch? My money is back on the AN-2? I think I might have spent that much time studying Russian doctrine I might actually be one?

Best

Flyinggibbon


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flyinggibbon
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:45 am 
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Bush8aver,

Those dimensions are those of the AN-2 cargo hold and door, scroll right to the top and you'll see the dimensions of the quad.

Best

FG


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Bushav8er
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:18 am 
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flyinggibbon wrote:
Bush8aver,

Those dimensions are those of the AN-2 cargo hold and door, scroll right to the top and you'll see the dimensions of the quad.

Best

FG
Right, sorry, copied the wrong ones. Even bigger than:

LxWxH of 211.4 x 120.9 x 128.9 cm

83" x 47.6" x 50.7" I'm not certain but I don't think the Van door is that large.


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Northern Flyer
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:34 am 
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I don't recall the exact dimension of the caravan cargo door, but the quad dimensions are probably flexible to a point. I don't know anything about the AN-2 but if they are what I think they are you could probably buy six of them for the price of a new grand caravan.


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Redneck_pilot86
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:40 am 
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The cargo door on the Caravan is 49x50"


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RVR6000
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:03 am 
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How about a Short Skyvan.


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HuD 91gt
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:45 am 
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Northern Flyer wrote:
HuD 91gt wrote:
Image

Image

I can't give dimensions of that quad, but it fit no problem with the trailer pictured above. Looks like your Sundays may be booked up from now on :p That perfectly sized table was actually found at the mine site, We drove it on some lumber onto the table then pushed it in. A simple set of ramps will do the same job.


That quad is on the small side it is an 1986 Honda 350 4x4. I know this because it is one of mine, I rented it to that outfit and they took it to Cullington (sp) lake. Now Mr.HuD was it you or the guys in camp that put a big hole in the seat??? :wink:


Nice to know I now know who you are Northern Flyer. As for the hole, i'd blame it on a Caribou. You have to remember, it was sitting out there for months on end ;)


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Pirate Pilot
PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:37 am 
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Comon guys, take the racks off, the wheels and tires off, the handlebars off, the footpegs off, and even the plastic fender pieces (they are the largest). Stuff the remainder in the aircraft and stuff all the parts around it. Call the dealer or talk to the mechanic in the shop that had to bolt the thing together when it came in a box from Japan. It is not that difficult and wouldn't take more than 1 hr. And yes, I do know.....I was a Suzuki/Kawasaki dealer for 6 years. I had to pay the freight AND put them together in order to sell them. Oh, just a thought....Ha ha drain the fluids!!!


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