Cessna crash near Orangeville Ontario

[SAR_YQQ]

According to the CADOR (2008O1950) the ELT didn't activate, and was damaged.

Still puzzled by the lack of flight plan or itinerary. I can appreciate the fact that these guys might have been within 25nm of the airfield, but who owned the airplane? Weren't they curious when the plane was AWOL?

[_dwj_]

Still puzzled by the lack of flight plan or itinerary. I can appreciate the fact that these guys might have been within 25nm of the airfield, but who owned the airplane? Weren't they curious when the plane was AWOL?

According to the news reports they took off at 10:30pm, crashed at 4:51am, and someone on the plane called 911 on their phone just after they crashed, so a flight plan or itinerary wouldn't have helped.

[AUGER9]

TSB report released
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 8o0233.asp

Findings as to Causes and Contributing Factors

Due to fatigue, the pilot involuntarily fell asleep resulting in the aeroplane continuing to fly in its trimmed condition until it struck the ground.

The two passengers, both with flying experience, were asleep and did not identify the developing situation and, therefore, could not alert the pilot.

Findings as to Risk

Reliance on a pilot’s own judgment to prevent fatigue-related accidents is an ineffective defence mechanism.

The pilot did not file a flight plan or flight itinerary. As a result, there was no alert that the aeroplane was overdue, which could delay the initiation of search and rescue efforts.

The pilot utilized a weight and balance work sheet for a different aeroplane model. As a result, the flight was flown at a gross weight that exceeded the limitations set out in the aircraft flight manual.

Although it complies with existing standards, the over-centre retaining strap that mounts the emergency locator transmitter (ELT) to the aeroplane can release the ELT when subjected to the right combination of impact forces, rendering it inoperable and increasing the risk of delay in locating a crash site.

Although it complies with existing standards, an ELT with a single-axis inertia switch may not be triggered by impact forces in some instances, increasing the risk of delay in locating a crash site.

[burhead1]

The pilot utilized a weight and balance work sheet for a different aeroplane model. As a result, the flight was flown at a gross weight that exceeded the limitations set out in the aircraft flight manual.

May very well have been what saved there lives.



Bring on the personal attacks LOL


Still hard to imagine falling asleep.

[mag check]

Still hard to imagine falling asleep.

Cracked exhaust?

[burhead1]

Still hard to imagine falling asleep.

Cracked exhaust?

Most of them rentals have that little tag with the carbon monoxide detector coloured circle.
They were also up most of the day and night, I still can't believe it.
Unfortunately the only person who can answer to this didn't make it.

[CpnCrunch]

Still hard to imagine falling asleep.

Cracked exhaust?

Or just basic biology. Have you ever tried to stay awake for 22 consecutive hours?

[PunkStarStudios]

One of the guys is an ex Seneca guy who left Seneca to go build some time at Brampton - code for "Stick and Rudder skills lacking - go sharpen up and come back".

They had actually gone over to Buttonville to work the sim for a while (one of them still had access to it) before getting on board again and heading out for their last flight. So not only were they up all that time - they were "working" the entire time to boot.

Brampton really cracked down hard on night flying after that (probably mandated by TC). A lot of responsible people that did fly at night lost the privilege.

As sad as the outcome was - it was completely predictable. Sometimes there are accidents that seem completely random, shocking, and "not right", like Aziz and the 2 students out of Seneca... then there's ones like this that kinda pisses me off more than anything.

Probably not a politically correct emotional response I know - but damn it! Everyone makes mistakes - honest mistakes I can forgive but come on - this was just dumb and absent of all good judgment... like drinking and driving.

[CpnCrunch]

The students at these schools tend to be young people who think they can do anything and may not always have the best judgement. The schools really should bear some responsibility for making sure the student isn't going to be awake for 24 hours while flying in the middle of the night! If you are working for an airline then there are strict rules about this sort of thing.

[PunkStarStudios]

I can see your point crunch - but these were not ppl students.

In fact - they may have been CPL. Never the less - when you have a FTU hand holding your every decision the trade off is a lack of decision making experience, a lack of confidence, and sloppy flight planning... why put the effort into making sure you didn't make any mistakes and your bases are covered when you are lulled into the complacency of thinking the dispatcher is going to catch anything you didn't.

People have to take responsibility for their own decisions and actions. Casting blame on the flight school is a scape goat. They were just renting the plane out to a member. That's like saying if I crash a rental car 8 hours after pulling off the lot because the wipers were not perfect or there was no washer fluid I can go blame the rental company. Sure - I suspect some of you may agree with that - but I suspect those of you who do may be the same ones who lived at home until you were 35 and had your Mom do your laundry.

Oh gawd. What have I done. Now I'm going to get flamed.

[Hedley]

Still hard to imagine falling asleep

at 4:51 am?!

[burhead1]

Still hard to imagine falling asleep

at 4:51 am?!

Would you wile driving or flying ? No and neither would I

I guess for some it is possible but. it will never happen to me and i still find it hard to believe that someone would fly a plane when they could or would fall asleep.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that is not what happened.

[CpnCrunch]

Still hard to imagine falling asleep

at 4:51 am?!

Would you wile driving or flying ? No and neither would I

I guess for some it is possible but. it will never happen to me and i still find it hard to believe that someone would fly a plane when they could or would fall asleep.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that is not what happened.

It happens to people all the time when driving. I seem to recall at least two entire Calgary families getting wiped out in different accidents last year caused by falling asleep at the wheel.

I've never stayed awake for 24 hours and tried to drive/fly at 4 in the morning, but I'm guessing that you could fall asleep without even noticing - i.e. different from the mid-afternoon sleepies that you sometimes feel when driving, which you can easily use willpower, fresh air or the radio to overcome.

[square]

it will never happen to me

Now there's the right attitude!

and i still find it hard to believe that someone would fly a plane when they could or would fall asleep.

Well that's a little naive.. people wilfully go to sleep in airplanes and it's even made legal in the CARs, http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... htm#720_23

The trick is to do it one at a time

[burhead1]

it will never happen to me

Now there's the right attitude!

The trick is to do it one at a time

LOL

Sorry for my thinking out loud or typing out loud