Afghanistan 2011

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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by mcrit »

Hedley wrote:Just got this in my email. Doubt the sentiment will be very popular with the people here:
That was a respectful gesture Hedley. I'm certain that those with loved ones and friends overseas appreciated it.
sky's the limit wrote:Mcrit,

Interesting statement, and while on the surface I would totally agree, what happens when the war or context of the soldier's engagement is illegal? Say like Iraq, or when any of the military Junta's around the world use their armed forces for oppression where they certainly do target civilians without repercussions? We are not just discussing our Army, which I should mention is held in very high regard by those who've worked with it as allies, a Colonel I spoke with today was effusive in his compliments of the Canadians, which is always nice to hear.


First off, in my opinion the law and the decision to go to war are two different things. Ideally the law is about maintaining harmony. Pragmatically the law is always, (to a greater or lesser extent), an instrument those in power use to stay in power. The decision to go to war is about survival and what is going to be best for a nation/state/tribe etc in the long run. In that light I don't believe that there is any such thing as a legal war, or an illegal war.
Regardless of what I have written above, the decision to go to war is not the soldiers'. It is the politicians'. In most cases it is beyond a soldier's pervue to decide if a nation should or should not be going to war, (granted, one can always brew up some hypothetical cases which are unlikely to see the light of reality). The only thing a soldier is responsible for is his personal conduct in that war, which leads me back to the law of armed conflict.

A combatant that adheres to the law of armed conflict is a soldier, regardless of the presence or absence of a uniform. It does not matter if they are a member of a formed army backed by a nation state or a member of an irregular militia.
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by sky's the limit »

Some great comments, I really don't have any time to add/respond to them atm, but I'll put up a few shots from yesterday, and point out that despite all our musings here on policy, morality, ethics, historical "facts" (whatever they may be), and deciding who is "bad" and who is not, we need to remember that this is country full of people going about life, and it is these people who are bearing the brunt of all this. The bomb disposal guy and I had a great chat yesterday about this conflict, and his belief that we're not trying to win at all, and I couldn't agree more, as there is no "winning" in this equation.

Walked 16km on an IED/IDF (rockets) patrol with a combined US/British group yesterday. We spent time in various villages, compounds, and farms looking for people of interest, ordinance, and gathering information. I'm in a real rush here, so I can't get into details, but it was a fascinating day, and the interactions with both the locals and the soldiers were amazing, and surprising on a number of levels, given that we were walking in heavily armed. Here are only a few of 1000 I took:
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by bizjets101 »

Shiny Side Up re;
You might want to take a closer look at your fact. They might have been one of the more relatively peacful countries in Asia by comparisson. Certainly not one of the rosiest places to be on the planet during the timeframe you describe.
For the record, I read your complete post, your reference is Wikipedia - so I read that - which listed it's reference - which is a one page history of Afghanistan - taken from copied paragraphs and sentences from multiple books - there is no name as who may have written it, but it does list some books as references.

I was unable to find anything to corroborate your wikipedia source.

Here is my source, first his bio Click Here Professor William Maley.
From 1929 - 1978 Afghanistan was considered to be one of the most peaceful countries in Asia. They maintained neutrality during World War II, avoided wars with their neighbors, and was internally free of mass killings and mayhem.
From the Introduction of the book The Afghanistan Wars by William Maley.

If you wish to argue this fact, I suggest you contact Professor Maley @ william.maley@anu.edu.au <william.maley@anu.edu.au>
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by bizjets101 »

Is it just me or does your 2nd last photo of the Afghani look like Johnny Carson!!!!

Fantastic photos, greatly appreciated, amazing clarity - guys got a nice bike, and the kids
sure have great teeth - and huge smiles!!!

Stay safe, sounds like an incredible adventure!!

Whats the story on the explosion in the last photo . . .
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by bizjets101 »

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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by Expat »

bizjets101 wrote:Photos are excellent - must be amazing experience being there!! Lots of video's on youtube of the Salang Tunnel - I recall the huge tunnel fire when a fuel tanker blew up!!!!

Just looking at some of the videos on YouTube - amazing.

As for current events Afghanistan - I can't actually see the American's leaving in my lifetime.
They never really got over losing their proposed oil pipelines of Unocal in the 90's - had struck a deal with the Taliban, and Pakistani's to get all that Caspian Oil to Indian ports to American shores.

Now that Click Here Bridas is half owned by the Chinese - there is no way America is going to lose out on the oil again.

After passing the click here US Congress passed the Iran and Libyan Santions
Act to prevent the rest of the world from getting the oil through Iranian pipelines.


I know, bummer it comes down to oil, but without it, America would have never been in the region in the first place.
It was always about oil, and the cold war...


According to Afghan, Iranian, and Turkish government sources, Hamid Karzai, the interim Prime Minister of Afghanistan, was a top adviser to the El Segundo, California-based UNOCAL Corporation which was negotiating with the Taliban to construct a Central Asia Gas (CentGas) pipeline from Turkmenistan through western Afghanistan to Pakistan.

Karzai, the leader of the southern Afghan Pashtun Durrani tribe, was a member of the mujaheddin that fought the Soviets during the 1980s. He was a top contact for the CIA and maintained close relations with CIA Director William Casey, Vice President George Bush, and their Pakistani Inter Service Intelligence (ISI) Service interlocutors. Later, Karzai and a number of his brothers moved to the United States under the auspices of the CIA. Karzai continued to serve the agency's interests, as well as those of the Bush Family and their oil friends in negotiating the CentGas deal, according to Middle East and South Asian sources.

When one peers beyond all of the rhetoric of the White House and Pentagon concerning the Taliban, a clear pattern emerges showing that construction of the trans-Afghan pipeline was a top priority of the Bush administration from the outset. Although UNOCAL claims it abandoned the pipeline project in December 1998, the series of meetings held between U.S., Pakistani, and Taliban officials after 1998, indicates the project was never off the table.

Quite to the contrary, recent meetings between U.S. Ambassador to Pakistan Wendy Chamberlain and that country's oil minister Usman Aminuddin indicate the pipeline project is international Project Number One for the Bush administration. Chamberlain, who maintains close ties to the Saudi ambassador to Pakistan (a one-time chief money conduit for the Taliban), has been pushing Pakistan to begin work on its Arabian Sea oil terminus for the pipeline.

Meanwhile, President Bush says that U.S. troops will remain in Afghanistan for the long haul. Far from being engaged in Afghan peacekeeping -- the Europeans are doing much of that -- our troops will effectively be guarding pipeline construction personnel that will soon be flooding into the country.

Karzai's ties with UNOCAL and the Bush administration are the main reason why the CIA pushed him for Afghan leader over rival Abdul Haq, the assassinated former mujaheddin leader from Jalalabad, and the leadership of the Northern Alliance, seen by Langley as being too close to the Russians and Iranians. Haq had no apparent close ties to the U.S. oil industry and, as both a Pushtun and a northern Afghani, was popular with a wide cross-section of the Afghan people, including the Northern Alliance. Those credentials likely sealed his fate.

When Haq entered Afghanistan from Pakistan last October, his position was immediately known to Taliban forces, which subsequently pinned him and his small party down, captured, and executed them. Former Reagan National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane, who worked with Haq, vainly attempted to get the CIA to help rescue Haq. The agency claimed it sent a remotely-piloted armed drone to attack the Taliban but its actions were too little and too late. Some observers in Pakistan claim the CIA tipped off the ISI about Haq's journey and the Pakistanis, in turn, informed the Taliban. McFarlane, who runs a K Street oil consulting firm, did not comment on further questions about the circumstances leading to the death of Haq.

...
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by Shiny Side Up »

From the Introduction of the book The Afghanistan Wars by William Maley.
Said book you list as your source, actually aside from that one line mentions very little about the time period in question. With the exception of one book written in 1973, he lists no sources written prior to 1990. But regardless what one might believe, or place stock in Wikipedia, (If need be for credibility's sake I'll delve into my personal library for correlating information and sources, wikipedia was merely linked in all the preceding cases if people were interested in a convinient source to read) stuff did happen in Afghanistan between the formation of the USSR and the Soviet invasion in 1979. whether one chooses to believe what kind of effect they have had on the present is a matter of discussion and I feel relevant to the topic at hand. After all to answer the questions of "Have we had a positive effect" or "Have we made things worse" there needs to be a frame of reference.

Some of the dates in question I've set in the timeline above, you don't even need Wikipedia to confirm - you can look up the dates for when Pakistan gained independance, or the formation existence of SEATO and CENTO, which alone from a historical perspective gives us some questions. Why wasn't Afghanistan included in the above organizations? What if the Pakistani-Afghan border would have been drawn differently? If said border would have been created with more attention to ethnicities in the area how would this have affected the events of today? The formation of the Taliban?

The Russians didn't invade just to grab land after all. What compelled them to go? Revolutionaries don't just come out of the wood work, something causes them to revolt. One thing that I always find interesting is how the socialist/communist movement gets going. It certainly seems to be the alternative people turn to in countries of muslim majorities. Do they see it as the quickest alternative for change against a religious hardline? Is there potential for another revolution there today?

I just find it disappointing that a lot of talk is like history began in 2001.
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by bizjets101 »

The Russians didn't invade just to grab land after all. What compelled them to go?
If you take a look at the map below, during the Cold War in 1978 -1979 - the USA had just made deals with Iraq and Egypt - kicking out the Soviets and re-arming Iraq and Egypt.

At the time Egypt and Israel had just signed a peace accord, USA sent thousands of missiles to Israel, and where on good terms with Pakistan.

Iran went upside down with the Americans - the Shah departed in January 79 - and the fear for the Soviets was America was going to invade Iran - which would put America on the Soviets doorstep - the only buffer between Iran and the Soviet Union, and the only buffer between Pakistan and the Soviet Union - was Afghanistan.

In an earlier post, I posted Afghanistan had the misfortune to be on the Soviet Unions doorstep, that and the cold war, and the Shah of Iran departing - sealed their fate.

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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by bizjets101 »

Actually in March of 80, the USAF did go into Iran in March 80 with a Twin Otter with dirt bikes - and set up a secret location 'Desert One' - with landing lights for a rescue attempt to free the American hostages held in Iran Click Here.

Six C130's departed from Masirah Island, Oman and eight RH-53D's from the USS Nimitz in the Arabian Sea - to meet up at the secret - Desert One - location inside Iran.
The entire rescue attempt went badly and it was aborted - however one of the RH-53D's in darkness - and dust kicked up from the helicopter - collided with a parked C130 - both the Helicopter and the C130 exploded in a fireball killing 8 American military personnel and one Iranian Civilian.

The Americans were supposed to burn the remaining helicopters, but in the confusion, fire, dust, and rescue of the wounded - the order was never followed through - and five RH-53D's got left behind.

Eventually (Iran-Contra, arms for hostages - another story) On January 20, 1981, 20 minutes after Reagan was sworn in as President, 52 American hostages were released by Iran into U.S. custody, having spent 444 days in captivity.

Had they not been released, a second rescue operation, was already in the works.

Photo United States Air Force C130E 62-1809 and 158761 USN RH-53D
at Desert One Posht-i-Badam, Iran April 24/1980.
Image
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by . ._ »

Why does all of the oil in the world have to be in areas with messed up people?

Yes, I'm talking about Alberta.

-istp :P

P.S. Sorry, I couldn't help it. :oops:
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by beaverbob »

istp wrote:Why does all of the oil in the world have to be in areas with messed up people?

Yes, I'm talking about Alberta.

-istp :P

P.S. Sorry, I couldn't help it. :oops:
Is that because half of NFLD is working there? :mrgreen:

P.S. Sorry, I couldn't help it. :oops:
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by bizjets101 »

http://www.firstshowing.net/2011/offici ... incendies/

Saw the film Incendies tonight - heavy film. Couldn't help but think about Afghanistan
while watching this film. The silence of the audience was deafening.

I can't comment on the film as it would give it away, but definitely worth seeing.
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by AuxBatOn »

SLT,

What for PERSEC (pictures).
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by sky's the limit »

A few more shots to add, some from the other day's patrol, a couple air to air with the 101st Air Cav, and one NVG shot from a deliberate op flown last night inserting about 170 troops with "F" model Chinooks and accompanying Apache and Kiowa escorts. Even though it is not technically fighting season, there is a lot going on, mostly by virtue of the dramatically increased ground troop numbers in RC-South now.

The Canadians are partly/largely? to thank for that as a condition of our extension beyond 2009 was a dramatic increase in NATO/ISAF troops in the area as we had been looking after all of Kanadahar province on our own up until about 2008, without much ability to effect substantial change. That has dramatically improved with the recent "surge," and a substantial increase in ANA troops which allow ground to be held.

I had a really great chat with both the Colonel in charge of the 101st and his Sgt Major today, really interesting guys and we ended up talking a good bit longer than scheduled. Very interesting to hear their perspectives, then ask them a few tough questions. They were both optimistic, and realistic with their answers which was great.

Tonight we had the first rocket attack on the base since I got here, much less of that this time of year, October was almost every night. I was dining with the Canadian Air Wing leadership at the time, and we had a good talk with under the table.... lol I'm going to try that as an ice breaker the next time my wife and I have a dinner party.

Tomorrow I'm going out with the Pathfinders again, this time to a village that is not ISAF friendly, and where considerable IED making material has been found over the last couple of weeks. It will be a lot more intense than the last one I'm told, and the insertion and extraction will be via air assault, so I hope to have a few good shots from that. Just finished spray painting my bucket tan - it showed up black and that is really the wrong colour to be wearing around here... I'm not allowed to wear cammo, but now have some non-uniform tan combat pants and newly painted lid, in addition to a borrowed Army back pack, should do the trick.

Anyway, I just found out that I finally got approval to do a story on the much maligned V22 - it came after a strong push by Bell/Boeing and some very high ups in Washington, so this could be a very interesting story indeed, as there have been a great deal of issues with the Osprey in theatre. Way more than have been made public, so this is going to be a bit of an exclusive. It'll be with the marines up North next week sometime.

stl

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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by niss »

STL,

Great shots!

What is the opinion amongst the Afghans (Friend & Foe) of you as an embedded reporter? Do they separate you from the conflict or do they see you still as an occupier, etc?
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by sky's the limit »

Thanks Niss,

That's an interesting question.

I'm not really sure what the answer is, but it's a question I have been mulling over in my head as well. The rockets launched against the base tonight came from the rough area we were in, so there is no doubt about the activity there, but I didn't get any hostile feelings from the locals at all. In fact, quite the opposite. There was a fascinating charade being played out however, as neither side seemed to be looking for a scrap, but both knew if the wrong moves were made one could certainly break out. There was an exchange of fire about a week ago, so it's not all Care Bears and Unicorns by any stretch of the imagination.

Tomorrow will not look like that however, as the village we're going to does not want us there, so I've been briefed on what to expect, and it won't be handing candy to kids. I suppose I'll be better able to answer you tomorrow night. Realistically, I cannot imagine they see me as anything other than another occupier, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't given a reversal in roles. It's pretty clear that even the average Afghan is uncomfortable with us here, and I know that forms a pretty significant part of the recruiting for the Taliban, it's not all religious fanaticism as the Gov't and press would have you believe.


stl
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by niss »

Interesting answer!

Also is there a reason you painted it Tan vs something like hot pink? Is it more dangerous to stand out apart from the soldiers than to look just like them?

Stay safe!!
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by sky's the limit »

Yes,

Tan matches the ground.... I spoke extensively with the Sgt in command the other day, and he said given the location and time of year I could pretty much wear what I wanted, so I did. Today's briefing was the exact opposite, with him strongly recommending making an effort to blend in better. The Navy "CEXE" who is the resident bomb guy has his own cammo scheme that makes him stick out like a sore thumb, but he can't wear Army stuff, so there you have it. I have a bunch of good shots of him, but they aren't approved to show yet, so I can't give you a look at how dramatically he stands out.

I'm under no illusion that I will blend in, but black is the worst colour, so getting rid of it is at least making an effort. The Col. commanding the Kiowa and Apache's flew over us the other day and said he saw me first, then the Navy guy, both long before the Army guys... I've learned to pay attention when that sort of information comes my way.

Well, bed time. Long day tomorrow if we go. The wx sux right now, I swear it follows me around the globe.

stl
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by bizjets101 »

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=71152

If you see any of our CH-147D's get a shot!!, as there all for sale.
Or you can see if you can sell them while your there :)

Also interesting forum Canadian Army on Afghanistan;

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/board,108.0.html
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by bizjets101 »

Image

“Revenge is a dish best served cold.” –Ancient Pashtun saying.

Currently the USA led mission rubber stamped by NATO has 131,000 troops on the ground, that is 30 thousand more than the Soviets and we're still losing ground.

According to Transparency International, Afghanistan is the second worst Gangster State on Earth - after only Somalia.

The mission was to rid Afghanistan of al-Qaeda fighters - of which the CIA stated in December 2009 there were only between 50 and 100 al-Qaeda in Afghanistan.

The Taliban will inevitably control most of the Pashtun South and East, forestalling the inevitable is too high a price to be paying. The US policy involves spending Billions of dollars, while suffering several hundred allied deaths - to prevent the Afghan Taliban from controlling their homeland.

The Economist; 'Less than 3% of Afghan Military recruits are from the troublesome Pushtan South where the Taliban draw most support. Few will sign up - due to ruthless intimidation against Government collaborators.

The Canadian's are in the Taliban South which in part explains our high loss of troops - we are doing nothing more than delaying the inevitable.

You can read daily ISAF news releases Click Here, for example from today's press release's,

KABUL, Afghanistan (Feb. 3, 2011) – The International Security Assistance Force is currently assessing an incident in Lashkar Ghar district, Helmand province, in which two Afghan civilians were accidentally killed and one injured.

According to initial reports an ISAF unit received small-arms fire, while transiting between two forward operating bases. The unit returned fire at a van which they believed was part of the attack.

Following the engagement, ISAF forces found two dead civilians and one wounded civilian in the van. The wounded civilian was evacuated to an ISAF medical facility.

ISAF is looking into the incident.
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by bizjets101 »

Click Here a run on Afghan bank after it's revealed bank directors and friends have lent themselves just shy of a Billion dollars!!!

Karzai's Brother is on the board.

Yeah thanks Canada for helping to allow these guys to buy their luxury homes in Dubai -
while our soldiers are battling it out for them - nice.
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by Moose47 »

<<<The Canadian's are in the Taliban South which in part explains our high loss of troops - we are doing nothing more than delaying the inevitable.<<<

So are you saying our guys died in vain?

I wish you could sit in when we do a debrief after they come home. I have never heard any defeatist shit from any of them, just the opposite.

'Pro Patria'
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by bizjets101 »

YES

Image
Corporal Richard Edward Atkinson
1st Combat Engineer Regiment (1CER) Australia
1988 - 2011 bio click here


Reality check, this young man above was alive when I posted my last post. He was blown up yesterday by an IED in Southern Afghanistan - he and his fellow Aussie who was severely injured by an IED. He was 12 years old when this started - he was engaged to be married, he just turned 22 - and he died yesterday.

US figures released last week showed a 60 per cent increase in the number of troops killed by roadside bombs in Afghanistan over the past year as the Taliban mimicked deadly insurgent tactics adopted in Iraq.

Taliban fighters last year reportedly planted more than 14,661 home-made bombs.

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Moose47

I look forward to hearing an explanation why 154 Canadian Soldiers lives have not been given in vain. Please explain . . .

PS; I'm forwarding your response to cindy@cindysheehanssoapbox.com <cindy@cindysheehanssoapbox.com> so please be factual in your answer.
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by Moose47 »

<<<PS; I'm forwarding your response to cindy@cindysheehanssoapbox.com <cindy@cindysheehanssoapbox.com> so please be factual in your answer.>>>

I mourn the loss of a fellow warrior.

I do not owe you or that loser Cindy Sheehan any answers. You go out and find me one Canadian combat vet that would not go back if given the oportunity.

May I assume that you never served in the military? If you did, I don't think you would be having a such a bad dose of verbal diahhrea.

'Pro Patria'
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Re: Afghanistan 2011

Post by Fling Wing »

This is really fascinating STL, I've really enjoyed these pictures, they give a realistic view of everyday life there.

I'm wondering if you've seen any "extreme" kite fliers there? I've been reading a blackhawk pilots blog, and apparently they've really gotten into the sport since it has once again been allowed, and they compete to reach amazing heights where they're occasionally hit by passing helicopters. I find this interesting how they're not all "bad" guys like the typical media portrays them.
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