First job advice/tips?

[freezerburn31]

Hey guys,

I'm looking for some advice on finding that first job for myself and for anyone else on this forum that might need some help. I also have a few questions.

I have my CPL with a float endorsement, just the basic rating about 7 hours on floats and about 225 total time. I know that 50 hours seems to be the magic number for insurance. I looked into a 50 hour bush course but I feel my money will be better spent on a multi engine and IFR rating. I really have my hearts set on flying float planes right now but the multi, IFR ratings will help with other jobs as well.

I have no problem moving wherever I need to. I'm compiling a list of companies to apply to and going on a road trip.
When is the best time to go on a road trip, to make it for the spring hiring?

What companies out there that should DEFINITELY be on my list of places to go to? Any companies that I should avoid? (please explain why) Preferably around northern Ontario as there seems to be a lot of float operators out there, and is my best place to start looking.

Other than ratings and type exp, what other small things can I do that are valuable for an employer and will stick out on my resume? Such as first aid, pilot decision making course, pilot competency checks etc. Which ones are more valuable than others?

I've also accepted the fact I may be working the docks for the first season or so, which I'm ok with. I always hear about the occasional horror story of someone working the docks for years with false promises of being put into a plane and it never happens.
Any advice to prevent this from happening?

Any advice and information is GREATLY appreciated.
If I think of any more questions I'll post it here.

[North Shore]

I looked into a 50 hour bush course but I feel my money will be better spent on a multi engine and IFR rating. I really have my hearts set on flying float planes right now but the multi, IFR ratings will help with other jobs as well.

Well, which is it, IFR or floats?

FWIW, I did both, and then had to re-do my IFR after two years of inaction. With a season on a 185 under my belt, the Seminole was a lot easier to handle the second time around than it was the first - none of that "world in fast-forward" stuff was going on.

Here's some general info from much earlier..

Good luck! Here's an excerpt from a series of posts on the 'old' forum about road trips:
Quote:
All of the above are correct. Here's some more:

When you drive up, have a zillion copies of your resume. Don't put your picture on it. Have your (maybe not so)grand total out front so they can read it. Don't emphasize your university debating club as one of your hobbies. Bush Pilots don't debate. We always know we're right, even when we aren't.

Don't show up in a suit. Wear clean Mark's Work Warehouse type clothes with work or hiking boots, and work gloves. Not NEW ONES!
The driver you want to speak with will probably be on the Ramp or Dock hucking freight. Toss freight while you're talking. Nobody needs a special guest star while they are loading. Don't ask if you can come along. If he or she wants you to, they will ask. We are not shy up here. Come to think of it, once the driver takes off with his Norseman load of crap, talk at length to the Ramp Rats. Heck, buy 'em a coffee! They could easily be would-be pilots. And NOBODY knows the operation better than the rats. If you haven't a clue ask them how to load a snowmachine, boats, drums, sattelite dish and anything else wierd you see lying around the dock. Remember, if where you are standing is the end of the road, then anything and everything you need for a small town has to be flown in. Hopefully by you! Make notes on how this crap is loaded, take pictures. Sure as heck they don't cover this in the edmonton flying club ground-school!

If you can, borrow a map for the perspective area. Know how to read all the details of a map like the saturday comics. GPS will probably be turned off for your check-ride. Know where the usual destinations are. You studied up before each ride right? In the hope of getting a job? It's no diferent- each little talk is a check-ride. Keep a file of who you talked to, and about whtat and when is a good time to talk to them again. Then make sure you call back

Speaking of destinations...Is there a bar or coffee shop that area drivers favor? Be in at O 'dark thirty and pay attention. In Redl Lake fer instance the Lakeview Restaurant at o dark thirty is going to have a bunch of airplane people in it.

Buy a boy scout manual at a yard sale. Master all the knots in it. Learn how to splice.

Get a thermos and a sleeping bag. Learn how to sit and wait for te chief pilot to come sauntering out of the office door. Talk to a stalker for more advise on this.

At each stop, there will probably be a library in town. Get a hotmail yahoo or similar account. Check it at each stop. That job offer might just be there for a limited time only.

When asked about career expections, you might consider letting the interviewer know that eventually you want to drive something bigger. Just leave the impression that that 'something biger' is a twin otter or a hawker, not the Airbus 330 or something.

Find out the rudiments of smalll engine repair, and how to trouble-shoot a propane fridge. Joe McBryan in the 'Knife always asks people if they have a trade. He doesn't mean do you have an ATPL. He wants to know what other skills you possess that can help him keep his small airline alive. Maybe to you its a stepping stone. To him and guys like him the business is his RRSP.

Presumably, there are going to be customers of the airline.If it's in the bush, a fair bet is that they will be native. Learn how to say hi, bye and thanks in their language. Customer service is important. In Cree, its Tansi or boujou, and Meegwutch for thanks. WAY up north thanks can be Masi or Masi 'Cho.
Up at the top its Quayanakpak, Daigoo, Quayanaini, Quana, Quayanomin Nakomin, (going left to right from Siberia to Greenland.)
If you are going on your trip up to april or after labour day, bring a parka. not a shiny clean ski jacket. You might want to consider buying a reynolds flight suit, so if you do get hired you fit right in. Pile enough crap in the car that if you do get a job, you can start right now. Every employer wants two weeks notice before you bail, but they also want you that afternoon if they hire you.

Remember that life is a journey, not a destination, (especially if your destination when hired is Pikangikum, Stoney Rapids Shammatawa, Rae Edzo, or Lake Harbour) so if they offer you a ramp job, grab it, and work it as if the one thing in life you wanted to do was get to work a pallet jack. That way paradoxically, you won't spend as much time on the pallet jack.

Have fun. We did.

[freezerburn31]

Thanks for the info. I'll keep it in mind when I do this trip I'm thinking maybe at the beginning of march. (does that sound too early or late?)
The reason I feel my money is better spent on multi engine and IFR is that there's always the possibility an employer could train me the rest of the float hours or I could do some beer runs here and there while working the docks. But if I don't have a multi engine rating I'm simply not flying right seat in that twin otter regardless of how many float hours I have. As for the IFR I've read that although it's not required, preference is usually given to people with an IFR rating, even though float flying is all day VFR. It also widens my options for employment, not restricting it to floats or light VFR singles.
If I had enough money obviously I would do both. For now I'm going to hold off on both and see what happens with my road trip.

thanks again

[Lost Lake]

FWIW: A lot of operators are shut down until days before start up. Sport shows, last minute holiday, don't live where they operate, etc. I would suggest planning a 2 - 4 week trip starting around the 1st or 2nd week of April, depending on ice out conditions. Check previous postings by employers, this can help determine the usual interview time. Try to find out Chief pilot's names. On your resume, make it showing your flight time/experience. CRM, Multi/IFR, academic achievements, etc don't cut it. Also, if you are have low time, don't try to make your resume look like you've around for 50 years. "The facts Mam, just the facts". I want to know that you have a backbone and can do more than wear ray bans (Don't wear them in an interview!). In the float business, oprators are looking for pilots who have either experience or grey matter to fix problems. They want a guy who, when the customer says his motor doesn't work either fix it or come up with a solution. Such as, instead of flying the .4 back to base, jumps over the hill to where he knows there's a spare motor.

Check out the sport shows. I got my first job hitting the boothes at the Toronto sportsman show. All the operators in one place. Having something different to say when you approach, instead of flipping your ray ban's up, winking at the guys wife and flipping the usual boring resume.

I've been fortunate that I've never had to road trip. Good luck with your hunt, and take the ear ring out before you leave.

[Redneck_pilot86]

I'd be hesitant to try the sports show, although you can meet the owners of a lot of places, they are there looking for customers and spending good money to do it, therefore they aren't apt to want to take the time to talk to hundreds of new pilots. If you do go, make sure you give any potential customers priority and only pester the owners when they are free.

[Lost Lake]

Actually, if you've ever done a show, the pesky pilots fit in with the rest of the usual "clients": asking dumb questions. low balling prices, never will go on a trip but just want to dream, stupid people who take up your time. If you've ever done a show, you know what I mean.

Don't be afraid to jump in, just make sure you do it at a quiet moment

[Mr. North]

I have my CPL with a float endorsement, just the basic rating about 7 hours on floats and about 225 total time. I know that 50 hours seems to be the magic number for insurance. I looked into a 50 hour bush course but I feel my money will be better spent on a multi engine and IFR rating. I really have my hearts set on flying float planes right now but the multi, IFR ratings will help with other jobs as well.

As North Shore suggested you'd be better off to pick one sector of the industry and sticking with it as you start your career. If you have your heart set on floats, get the bush course, work hard on the dock somewhere and earn that checkout on the 180. If all you want is a year round job, period, then go for the multi/IFR. I would caution against thinking that you'll be able to fly floats in the summer and find multi/IFR work in the winter. No charter company is going to hire a low time multi/IFR pilot who wants to work seasonal when there's literally dozens of other guys knocking down the door looking for year round work.

After flying for a few seasons in the bush some guys get employment insurance to subsidize their multi/IFR during the winter when they think they're ready to switch over. It doesn't always work for some but it worked for myself and plenty of my friends. That being said, I still obtained my multi/ifr too early (was bored one winter) and it expired before I actually switched over. Timing is everything so make sure you're actually ready to move on from floats and use that rating before you get it.

Do a quick search on 'employment insurance' and you'll get all sorts of information on how to get them to pay for a rating. In Manitoba it was surprisingly easy!!
Good luck!

[freezerburn31]

I didn't know EI would pay for ratings like that. I've heard of people getting truck licences through EI before. That's really good to know. I currently live in Alberta, I wonder if it's the same across the country. I'll look more into this

Thanks a lot

[floatpilot]

If you came to my booth when I was trying to sell a trip to a customer(wich makes the business happen) or during a quite time, where I'd like to rest a little, I would tell you to get lost. and probably not poliltly! We are there for one reason and one reason only TO BOOK TRIPS! not hire dock hands! I've been doing these sport shows for along time and havn't run in to this yet, thank christ! Deffinetly do not do this if you are looking for your first job.

[TeePeeCreeper]

We are there for one reason and one reason only TO BOOK TRIPS! not hire dock hands! I've been doing these sport shows for along time and havn't run in to this yet, thank christ! Deffinetly do not do this if you are looking for your first job.

Granted you don't want to delay or get in the way of a potential customer. However, if your polite and respectful know that anyone who tells you to screw off when you try to speak to them at a show is probably full of themselves and not someone you'd want to work for anyway!
Be respectful of the owners at the show when you try to have a chat. Know that if they tell you to screw off that they are doing you a favor!

TeePeeCreeper (is glad to have never dealt with anyone like the above poster)

[freezerburn31]

Where and when do these sports shows usually take place? I'd like to check one out looking for work or not.

[floatpilot]

teepee: you have never worked a show have you? I'm not a bad guy, but when you have been on the road for a month doing the tour, talking to people all day long, trying to better your business, the last thing I am worried about is hiring a dock hand. Not the right place for job hunting, but the shows are interesting to go to.

Most of the big shows are over now. You want to go see a show, go to any of the all canada shows, chicago is the biggest. Go to any operators web sight and they will give you the dates and shows they are attending.

[warbirdpilot7]

teepee: you have never worked a show have you? I'm not a bad guy, but when you have been on the road for a month doing the tour, talking to people all day long, trying to better your business, the last thing I am worried about is hiring a dock hand. Not the right place for job hunting, but the shows are interesting to go to.

Most of the big shows are over now. You want to go see a show, go to any of the all canada shows, chicago is the biggest. Go to any operators web sight and they will give you the dates and shows they are attending.

True enough. My dad did the Toronto Sportman's show in the early 90's(Not aviation related) and you are only there for one reason. Book trips/make contacts/sell product.........It is exhausting, as at that time the show was over 2 weeks long. You are worried about making the booth back, paying help, storms that kill attendance. It has to be looked at from the exhibitors point of view.

After all, you have to listen to everybody's fishing stories over and over and over..

[SII]

teepee: you have never worked a show have you? I'm not a bad guy, but when you have been on the road for a month doing the tour, talking to people all day long, trying to better your business, the last thing I am worried about is hiring a dock hand. Not the right place for job hunting, but the shows are interesting to go to.

Most of the big shows are over now. You want to go see a show, go to any of the all canada shows, chicago is the biggest. Go to any operators web sight and they will give you the dates and shows they are attending.

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