Egyptian Air Evac

[TG]

Brewguy,

I never paid anything to the French taxes, it all goes to Canada. And I didn't chose to be French, I was de facto one by my parents/family.
But the French embassy services are there and if I were badly caught, it would be very very stupid of me not using it, as it would be to find myself in this kind of situation.
I still think that only someone nicely sitting far away from the real mess would put the tax payer's argument on the table.

If a country cannot take care of its citizen where ever they are, something is just wrong.
If "the taking care of" seems to be abused by its overseas citizen:

you should be complaining to your local MP about this issue, and investigate as to why the Canadian government is giving passports to people who you deem are not fit to be Canadian.

I'm with Dushan.
The situation in Cairo is far from being desperate (yet ?) Buss everyone that want to leave to Tel-Aviv.
And let them pay for their buss tickets on top of the flight out of Israel.
They should grow some brain, have some insight, and do what my parents did back in the late 70's, leave the country you are in all by yourself (Chad in our case but I was just a kid) before you think it's going to spiral down, requiring sponsored mass evacuations.

[Brewguy]

Brewguy,

I never paid anything to the French taxes, it all goes to Canada. And I didn't chose to be French, I was de facto one by my parents/family.
But the French embassy services are there and if I were badly caught, it would be very very stupid of me not using it, as it would be to find myself in this kind of situation....

Yeah, that's pretty much how the whole "X of Convenience" thing works. Face it, if you were to take advantage of the fact that you're a French citizen (by birth) - despite having no actual, real connection to France (i.e. don't live there, don't work there, don't pay taxes there) - then that's exactly what it is. Sorry to burst your bubble.

If it's any consolation, you're not the only one ... obviously. We see people doing the same thing whenever there is a crisis. It's just a label - if you see nothing wrong with it, then embrace that label. Much like 'geeks' do. To some that term is a slur, but those who others would describe as a geek often embrace the term, and unashamedly call themselves the same thing.

You are French of Convenience. Get over it.

Question, say you're on vacation somewhere (oh, let's go with one of those all-inclusive resort things in say Cuba or Mexico); you run into someone at the bar and start chatting. They ask you about your citizenship. Do you say you're Canadian or French?

[bmc]

I see him as a holder of two passports, being a citizen of both. He is fortunate to be able to live, very easily, in Canada and Europe due to EU flexibility. wherever her choses to live, he will and should pay applicable taxes.

I am a Canadian. Have been for 52 years. The past thirteen years have been outside of Canada. I pay no Canadian taxes, nor should I, as I don't use or benefit from any services in Canada. The few times I have used medical services, I learned that my VISA card is readily accepted in the Emergency at hospitals. I have no problem with that at all.

Not sure when or if I am coming back to Canada.

Am I a Canadian of convenience?

[TG]

You are French of Convenience. Get over it.

Let's put it this simple way. Air Canada and Westjet have a reciprocal jumpseat agreements.
Last flight of the day to deadhead home happen to be with the company you used to work with.
I'm sure you will rather take an hotel room than shamefully take advantage of this situation which is offered to you anyway.
I repeat: Which is offered to you anyway! (priority given to current employees)


I will never deny my origins and call hypocrites those doing so. This being said, I'm a Canadian.

bmc, you are Canadian of convenience just because you still carry the citizenship
Or you will be, if ever during your life you take the slightness advantage of what Canada is offering.
That is the problem carrying dual citizenship. No matter what, the majority of people will think that one of the two has to be of convenience.

[bmc]

I fully agree with you, TG.

Leaning on the government of a country you no longer pay for, is abusing the system. As an aside, you don't have to live abroad to abuse the system.

If I were stuck in Egpyt and desparate to get my family out, I would be handing cash to whoever could help me. I would not expect Ottawa to bail me out.

The notion of Canadian's of convenience is an irritant, as it should be, to people who pay to support them.

[Hedley]

dual citizenship

I know everyone does it, but I never understood it. Don't know what it means. It can't work.

Example. By some twist of fate, you are a dual citizen of country A and B. You are 17 years old and currently reside in country A, which has compulsory military service at age 18. Just before your 18th birthday, you happen to relocate to country B - you are a citizen of it, so of course you can - and you skip out on your obligations to country A, which you claim to still hold citizenship of.

Not really. You have de facto renounced your citizenship of country A, even if you deny it, de jure.

The conflicts which arise between a citizen of two or more different countries cannot be resolved. See the original definition of dilemma. It is nonsensical and fraudulent to be a citizen of more than one country, because you will likely satisfy no country with respect to your obligations as a citizen. I know, quaint concept.

[TG]

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Edited to remove personal details.

[niss]

I was born in Toronto to Israeli parents. When we went to visit when I was one my mother was told that if I did not get my Israeli citizenship papers I would not be allowed to return to Israel.

I have dual citizenship, my loyalty is to both countries. I am a proud Canadian, I love my country and it's history, and would defend it if required. That said, I have no real heritage (beyond the Canadian collective) here, so everything I feel for Canada applies to Israel as well.

It is hard to understand when you only call one country home.

[Dushan]

Niss,
that is precisely why one has to call only one country "home". Then there is no ambiguity and difficulty in understanding, nor need to justify/explain.

[niss]

Niss,
that is precisely why one has to call only one country "home". Then there is no ambiguity and difficulty in understanding, nor need to justify/explain.

How do you define home?

[Expat]

dual citizenship

I know everyone does it, but I never understood it. Don't know what it means. It can't work.

Example. By some twist of fate, you are a dual citizen of country A and B. You are 17 years old and currently reside in country A, which has compulsory military service at age 18. Just before your 18th birthday, you happen to relocate to country B - you are a citizen of it, so of course you can - and you skip out on your obligations to country A, which you claim to still hold citizenship of.

Not really. You have de facto renounced your citizenship of country A, even if you deny it, de jure.

The conflicts which arise between a citizen of two or more different countries cannot be resolved. See the original definition of dilemma. It is nonsensical and fraudulent to be a citizen of more than one country, because you will likely satisfy no country with respect to your obligations as a citizen. I know, quaint concept.

Where I work, it is frequent to see a citizen of country A, work in B and C, while applying for citizenship in D, which often is Canada. They send their family to D, and get paid relocation for them, and after some time, they even get paid to go and visit them twice a year. First thing you know, they have a canadian green card, although they never lived there. Strange???

[Dushan]

How do you define home?

That's why I put it in quotes. One should have allegiance to only one county. The physical location of the person is not an issue. I have a problem with hyphenated Canadians or any other nationality for that matter, but you seldom see it anywhere else.

[niss]

How do you define home?

That's why I put it in quotes. One should have allegiance to only one county. The physical location of the person is not an issue. I have a problem with hyphenated Canadians or any other nationality for that matter, but you seldom see it anywhere else.

Interesting. I wouldn't hyphenate my nationality. I am not a Canadian-Israeli.

I am a Canadian, and I am an Israeli. I am entirely one and the other, not a bit of both.

Want an interesting perspective on the matter? Talk to a Bedouin or Druze.

[Beefitarian]

Wait, what if you're in France for more than 3 months?

[Brewguy]

Just to be clear, I have dual citizenship myself. I was born in Canada (to landed immigrant parents), and have lived here all my life. My parents are British. Under British citizenship law, because my father was British I was / am entitled to citizenship in the UK as well.

When I was in infant, I was taken over for a visit. Too young to hold my own Canadian passport, my birth was registered with the UK, and I was added as a dependent on my mothers UK passport.

If I ever wanted to leave Canada and go live and work in the UK (or for that matter, any part of the EU); I can do so.

However, I do not now, nor have I ever carried an UK passport. If I leave Canada and move to Europe, that would be a different story. I would become British for the duration, and wouldn't bother Canada with my problems, if any arose.

If today I found myself in trouble in some part of the world that had both Canadian & British consular services - I, as a Canadian, would be asking Canada for help ... not the UK. If there was no Canadian consular service available, I would (as a Canadian, i.e. a Commonwealth citizen) call on either the British or Australians. Both countries have reciprocal agreements in place with Canada to offer those consular services.

As a Canadian, you can also do the same (call on either the British or Australians in a Country where Canada isn't represented).

But when it comes to what happened in Lebanon, or what's happening in Egypt; the 'Canadian of Convenience' thing really irks me. There is a general understanding / agreement between nations that recognize dual citizenship; that when a person is in a country where they are a citizen, the other country will not interfere. I.e, if you have dual French and Canadian citizenship, and you are in France, for that moment in time Canada will not do anything on your behalf. As far as both countries are concerned at that point, you're French.

So why would Canada pull someone who holds both Canadian & Lebanese citizenship out of Lebanon? Or fill in whatever 2nd country / citizenship you want. It simply makes no sense; and those who take advantage of the Canadian taxpayer at that point, should be ashamed of themselves.

And I'm not even going to get into the whole Khadar family thing. What a complete and utter farce that whole mess is.

[Hedley]

I have a problem with hyphenated Canadians

Me too, but also NOT in the context of legal citizenship. Years ago, I worked with a nice guy, who described himself repeatedly as Irish-Canadian. I asked him if he had ever been to Ireland. Nope. Had his parents ever been to Ireland? Nope. He wasn't a frikken Irish-Canadian, he was a Canadian.

The above applies to any other ancestry or heritage (eg French-Canadian, Italian-Canadian, Polish-Canadian). You're Canadian, get it?

I don't describe myself as English-Canadian, Scottish-Canadian, Irish-Canadian or American-Canadian, despite the fact that I have ancestors from all of the above.

[bizjets101]

If today I found myself in trouble in some part of the world that had both Canadian & British consular services - I, as a Canadian, would be asking Canada for help ... not the UK.

Hell would have to freeze over before the Canadian's would do anything for you!!

Your first and last call should be to the UK - they have way more clout than Canada, way more connections, will come see you asap, will assist you in almost anyway - even cash!!

Canada will pass on phone calls, messages, and check on your well being - without offering any assistance what so ever. If your Canadian your pretty much on your own in a foreign Country, if your British - you've got a friend.

[Beefitarian]

If your Canadian your pretty much on your own in a foreign Country, if your British - you've got a friend.

That's just not true, you can get a ride out with an IOU.

[bizjets101]

hahaha very quick!!!

Just say on the news the Pro-American Yemen President has announced that he will not only step down in 2013 - he will no longer be handing the reins of the Country over to his son.

Yemen is the 'other' home of el-Qaeda. Other then Afghanistan and Northern and Western Pakistan.

[Beefitarian]

In my case, since I was out of France before my 18th birthday I had to report yearly to the France Embassy between my 18th birthday until 30 and not spend more then 3 months in a row in France. Not complying would have seen me enlisted to the compulsory military service which they abolished soon after.

I still want to know what happens if you spend more than 3 months in a row in France?

[bizjets101]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/0 ... 18291.html

[TG]

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Edited to remove personal details.

[niss]

When I go to israel I have to carry my Army exemption papers that exempt me from service due to living outside the country. It is good for a stay of up to one year. After that they drag me away like the guy in n'sync in the simpsons navy episode.

[bmc]

When I go to israel I have to carry my Army exemption papers that exempt me from service due to living outside the country. It is good for a stay of up to one year. After that they drag me away like the guy in n'sync in the simpsons navy episode.

Talk on the street says your Cherokee has hard points and that you're an opperative for the Mosad.

How cool is that?

[niss]

When I go to israel I have to carry my Army exemption papers that exempt me from service due to living outside the country. It is good for a stay of up to one year. After that they drag me away like the guy in n'sync in the simpsons navy episode.

Talk on the street says your Cherokee has hard points and that you're an opperative for the Mosad.

How cool is that?

I really liked you BMC, that's what makes what I have to do now so hard.