Can Canadians work in europe with an ATPL?

[172pilot]

I'm just curious. I was looking at job postings at some small european operators and it seems to be the only license requirement listed. No mention of citizenship etc.

[shamrock104]

No, not unless you have dual citizenship and if so, you have to convert over to JAA.

[Cat Driver]

No, not unless you have dual citizenship and if so, you have to convert over to JAA.

Unless you have a skill that will allow the authority to give you an exemption from the need to hold a JAA license.

In that case you can fly for hire in Europe on a foreign license,with an exemption.

[KK7]

Are you talking about citizenship requirements or licence requirements?

If citizenship, then you need to have the legal right to work within the EU, which could be either a citizenship to an EU country (which allows you to work anywhere within the EU), or a permit to work, which you could get if you have some special skill like Cat mentioned, or if this company is in dire need for pilots and can't source someone locally.

If licence requirements, yes you need a JAA licence, unless as Cat says, you have some special skill.

[Hawker]

So just to clarify, if you do have your ATPL and citizenship, you still have to convert to JAA?

[Treetops]

Depends where the plane is registered. There are tax shelter spots that accept a canadian licence where many european aircraft are registered. But the right to work in EU is a totally different thing.

[scopiton]

cracrane, may be you should work on your english - which is hard for you I know, but hang on it'll come.
he said as a canadian, not as a european going back to europe.
read first, then try to understand, then try hard to think a bit, then prevent yourself from writting anything, you could hurt yourself.

[AuxBatOn]

I believe he meant that if we cannot work in Europe (without citizenship or a hard-to-get VISA), then Europeans should not given "carte-blanche" in Canada.

[scopiton]

who can officialy work as a plane pilot in canada flying a canadian registered aircraft for a canadian employer without a canadian licence, visa or citizenship ?? rules are the same all over the world and reciprocal.
reciprocal : european are not given "carte blanche" in canada, they also have to get citizenship + hard given and expen$ive visa to work in canada.
reciprocal...It's as hard for you to go to europe and work over there than an european to come to canada and work there.

caracrane is just ranting about european who he thinks took his job, wife, salary, house and dog, which is a way for him to justify his own mediocrity, as many quebecers like to do.

I'll stand by my coment.

[Janszoon]

What's the ATPL conversion like coming to Canada from Europe? I know the other way around is quite involved, including 14 exams and a sim ride on your type-rated aircraft. To convert when you don't meet the CAA time requirements, you have to take a 6-9 month groundschool and flight-training course at a CAA approved school. Is Canada as restrictive to Europeans?

[Caracrane]

ABT thanks, we're on the same wave of lenght. Scopiton, J"ai 22 ans de punché dans le métier et je m'en sacre que mon anglais soit pas parfait. PFO

[Caracrane]

And come over to see the set of legs I got plus the size of my Lab s head

[Mig29]

Other then rumors, how far are we from actually making the conversion from CAN to EU the same simple way CAN to USA conversion was implemented in ....2007 I believe?

The 14 exams are really silly if you are holding ATPL with thousands of hours on complex machines, but I must admit sometimes, I don't blame the Euros, as our PPL/CPL TC exams are starting to become a joke....sort of like our education system

Anyways...any news on that from someone who actually works at JAA or TC and is bored enough to spend their time on Avcanada? Thanks

[Boreas]

Protectionism. Thats all there is to it.

In my opinion, the discrepancy between training standards is more or less just a front.
I can't see the conversion process being streamlined and/or simplified anytime soon.

[AuxBatOn]

It's as hard for you to go to europe and work over there than an european to come to canada and work there.

Then why are there tons of Europeans working in Canada and comparatively no Canadians working in Canada?

[SunWuKong]

comparatively no Canadians working in Canada?

Don't mess up that one, the subject is sensitive enough, don't bring more confusion

More seriously:
Because there is even more "tons" of europeans getting their training in Canada?

If a canadian go get his training in UK, I am quite sure he would stay in Europe to work. But the training to access a job is around $200 000 there right?

Is the reason business? Maybe look at the flight schools. Should we put a big wall between countries, between businesses, migration, relationship between europe and north america? They use to be the same people, then cousin, now possibly enemies?
Many canadian pilots (but not only) are working all over the world, how to deal with that? Finally, maybe this is a good point, what about globalization? Good for some, not so for others, depending on time and place...

*** those are questions, I have not a definite opinion, but sure feel concerned: I work in a foreign (to me) country and love discovering, travelling.

[Mig29]

The reason why Europeans and others come to Canada to train is because we provide very good but CHEAP training! (Maybe that's why our entire aviation system in Canada is flawed!? We undersell ourselves!) And the only reason some of those trainees stay here is because it's relatively easier for them to find a job here as well vs back home. But back home once you get in, you'll never come back here so you can fly a 737 for $50K....just an example, not pointing fingers at anyone

[righthandman]

Here is an email I received from someone at TC in Oct. 2009 as a result of me inquiring about this very subject:

Thank you for writing to Transport Canada regarding our efforts toward establishing a more streamlined licence conversion process with the European Aviation Safety Agency, (EASA).

You are correct, there were efforts to build a more streamlined licence conversion process with the Joint Aviation Authority. Subsequently, when that organization folded into the European Aviation Safety Agency, our progress in this area slowed considerably.

Both Transport Canada and our counterparts in EASA intend to pursue an agreement in this area, to date however we have been unsuccessful in establishing a timeline in order to finish this work.

Regrettably, we are unable to provide you with any more information regarding this initiative or any sense of when an agreement would be in place. Our recommendation would be to not base any decisions you are considering on the conversion being in place in the near future.

Good luck in your future endeavours.

Rick Schobesberger
Civil Aviation Services Manager / Gestionnaire des services, Aviation civile
Ontario Region / Région de l'Ontario
(416)952-0193 | facsimile / télécopieur (416)952-0316| TTY / ATS 1-888-675-6863

[Mig29]

Good ol' government response!!!

[newcomer]

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[hifliers]

I am retired, after working for European airlines for many years. Yes I am Canadian. With my Canadian Airline Transport license and more than 8000 hours in heavier than 12500 lbs, my Canadian license was converted into a JAA license without having to do the myriad of exams. Professionals are professionals the world over. The only requirement was for me to write an Air Regs exam, which consisted of a 4 day cram course, where the instructor taught from the exams he had. It was easy. On the strength of the Canadian ATPL, I was issued the JAA ATPL. The thing was, I was hired first, and the company took care of all the legalese. Hope this helps clear up some issues.