good, they caught one

[flyalmaguin]

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/artic ... pilot?bn=1

[Barkaie]

attempted manslaughter. maybe not this case cause the kid is ten, but otherwise.

[slowstream]

I don't think the courts take this matter with enough seriousness and I agree, attempted murder could be a very suitable charge.

Also, whats wrong with charging the parents? I'm a father of two and I know what my kids doing and consider myself responsible for their actions. That's how things were when I was growing up, if I willfully caused damage or harm, my parents were held accountable and then I was held accountable to my parents, and that was considerably worse!

A very strong message has to be sent from the courts and it needs to be covered heavily by the media!

[Nark]

A very strong message has to be sent from the courts and it needs to be covered heavily by the media!

Not to take away from the thread, but do you really believe the Canadian court system sends any other message than, a slap on the wrist is often too severe?

Have the kid make big rocks into little rocks for a while.

[slowstream]

Nark,

Sadly, no I don't think the courts do much more than give slaps and I know that first hand.

Smashing rocks would be a good lesson!

[I WAS Birddog]

Have the kid make big rocks into little rocks for a while.

AAAaaand the parents.

[Gorgons]

Sorry folks but I think this is a non-starter and some of you are making a mountain out of molehill. The science is clear on this matter, the lasers available on the market i.e. pointers don't have the power to cause any damage, period. Crash an aircraft because a kid gets lucky and manages to shine a small point of light into a cockpit! laughable. Landing into the sun at 05:30 produces a more "blinding" experience than any laser pointer ever will and we manage that without getting all flustered and losing control.

[Morav]

Sorry folks but I think this is a non-starter and some of you are making a mountain out of molehill. The science is clear on this matter, the lasers available on the market i.e. pointers don't have the power to cause any damage, period. Crash an aircraft because a kid gets lucky and manages to shine a small point of light into a cockpit! laughable. Landing into the sun at 05:30 produces a more "blinding" experience than any laser pointer ever will and we manage that without getting all flustered and losing control.

http://www.pangolin.com/faa/laser-aircr ... nation.htm

[Gorgons]

Sorry not buying the hype, your "proof" is flawed. They point out that typical laser flash from a 1000 feet last 1/50 of a second, the test in the simulator was performed using a 1 second exposure, or 50 times greater than the typical exposure. Soooo the makers of the little demo attached decide they will only go 25 times greater than typical experience to prove thier point. They don't say what distance they are using, but comparing the stills to the flash they show in the demo I'd say they used the 350 foot distance. So 25 times greater than typical at a distance of 350 feet... sound like a real life senario? Kid would have to be standing beside the runway 004 past the vasis or you would have to have the hi-rise just off your wing!

[flyalmaguin]

I think you are confusing dollar store 'lasers' with those available from astronomy shops. I've seen these up close at a astronomy club display at a provincial park. Clearly MUCH more powerful.

Here is a really technical explanation. Have a look at least at some of the pics showing green laser pointers:

http://calgary.rasc.ca/atmosphere.htm

Wouldn't want them pointed at me, in the cockpit, on the boat or in a car. Just bad news. Yes, accidents happen and someone pointing a laser at the sky might happen to strike an aircraft. What the original article is referring to is blatant attempts to target the plane on multiple occasions.

[Northern Flyer]

attempted manslaughter. maybe not this case cause the kid is ten, but otherwise.

Are you guys serious? Get over it, big deal a little kid pointed a laser pointer. Charge him with attempted manslaughter?

[TheCheez]

I don't think the courts take this matter with enough seriousness and I agree, attempted murder could be a very suitable charge.

Also, whats wrong with charging the parents? I'm a father of two and I know what my kids doing and consider myself responsible for their actions. That's how things were when I was growing up, if I willfully caused damage or harm, my parents were held accountable and then I was held accountable to my parents, and that was considerably worse!

A very strong message has to be sent from the courts and it needs to be covered heavily by the media!

Seriously? What kind of childhoods did you people have? When I was 10 I was running around the neighbourhood playing cops and robbers with fake elastic guns in the dark, building forts, driving go karts in the alley etc. If I had a laser pointer and had done something stupid enough, as 10 year olds are prone to do, as point it at an aircraft, my parents would have no way of knowing. These things can be bought anywhere now. I'm not thrilled at the idea of losing my career on account of a medical or at worst crashing the plane due to this, but I'm fully against the nanny state and overprotective helicopter parents that are at the end of the road we'd be going down if these parents ended up in jail or severely punished for this. Children are children. Throw the 'book' at these kids (hint, there isn't one for 10 year olds) and raise awareness in the media, there's not much else to do.

Adults, on the other hand, should know better and should feel it for doing something so stupid. Again, I don't agree that parents should be hung for everything their 10 year old does. I don't want to raise my kids in that world, knowing how much stupid shit I did at that age. I'm sure most of you, and your parents, and theirs, are the same.

[grimey]

Seriously? What kind of childhoods did you people have? When I was 10 I was running around the neighbourhood playing cops and robbers with fake elastic guns in the dark, building forts, driving go karts in the alley etc. If I had a laser pointer and had done something stupid enough, as 10 year olds are prone to do, as point it at an aircraft, my parents would have no way of knowing. These things can be bought anywhere now. I'm not thrilled at the idea of losing my career on account of a medical or at worst crashing the plane due to this, but I'm fully against the nanny state and overprotective helicopter parents that are at the end of the road we'd be going down if these parents ended up in jail or severely punished for this. Children are children. Throw the 'book' at these kids (hint, there isn't one for 10 year olds) and raise awareness in the media, there's not much else to do.

Adults, on the other hand, should know better and should feel it for doing something so stupid. Again, I don't agree that parents should be hung for everything their 10 year old does. I don't want to raise my kids in that world, knowing how much stupid shit I did at that age. I'm sure most of you, and your parents, and theirs, are the same.

This. There's a reason children under 12 can't be held criminally responsible. Send the cops to his house, intimidate the hell out of him, tell his parents not to give him a laser pointer, and move on.

[W0XOF]

There's all sorts of info regarding damage that can and has occurred from astronomers lasers, including to pilots. Especially the green lasers.

Why would anyone with a working version of Google contest that????

[Gorgons]

Keep googling then or better yet go to the mall or your favorite astronomy store and try to buy a scientific laser... unless you have the appropriate paperwork it's not happening. The only laser that is legally available to the general public comes in the under 5 watt flavour, pen light pointers! Commercial or industrial lasers I'll sing a different tune but the fact of the matter is the press is sensationalizing pen light laser stories, to the point where somebody is convinced its attempted murder.

[Married a Canadian]

Sorry folks but I think this is a non-starter and some of you are making a mountain out of molehill. The science is clear on this matter, the lasers available on the market i.e. pointers don't have the power to cause any damage, period. Crash an aircraft because a kid gets lucky and manages to shine a small point of light into a cockpit! laughable. Landing into the sun at 05:30 produces a more "blinding" experience than any laser pointer ever will and we manage that without getting all flustered and losing control

I'll tell that to all the pilots on Friday night who were getting multiple laser strikes on 15 mile final into YYZ whilst trying to land into a mother of a crosswind. Seems they thought it serious enough to report on each occasion they got one (same place). The distraction is enough in itself as the pilot wouldn't be looking out the window to check if it is a "shop bought laser".
As for landing into the sun at 0530...well I have a sneaking suspicion that they are expecting that so take the appropriate precautions.

[Gorgons]

So now we've gone from the typical 1000 feet strike to something in the 3000 to 4000 foot range... forget the astronomy lasers and pen lights it must have been a military grade laser. The perceived danger to aircraft and crew must have so great that night that everybody in the ATC system must have been frozen with fear.

Why didn’t they change the approach sequence? Why not route aircraft away from these deadly laser attacks, just a thought but how about onto a heading that was into wind and reduce the effects of the mother of all crosswinds.

Pilots by nature look for things to bitch about, it’s a result of sitting for long periods of time with nothing to do but scan the gauges and engage in small talk. Whether it’s the monthly roster, a new route or a change in an expected clearance…. we will always have an opinion… give us something out of the ordinary, no matter how trivial and we can talk it up for days. It’s very much like Avcanada, how many people can I upset or engage?

[prop2jet]

Gorgons have you ever been hit by a laser while flying? I have and until you have you don't know what you are talking about - that laser was bright. We were at 2500 feet on departure out of YYZ at night, and that green laser was bright enough. Long term damage, no, distraction - YES! Therin lies the threat, a distraction that could potentially threaten flight safety at a critical stage of flight.

Heavy charges levelled at a 10 year old? Not necessary, as stated, a stern lecture to both child and parents and move on. Will it have any lasting impact, probably not.

[Gorgons]

To each his own, if a 1/50 of second beam of light refracting across the windscreen has you worried about losing control and crashing be very afraid of St Elmo’s Fire and lightning in the distance.

Have I ever experienced a laser strike (and I use that term loosely)... No, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. The only thing that has ever to come was small arms fire on final into a reserve, 2 or 3 .22 holes in the tail.

Isn’t the FMS making the decisions and driving by 2500 feet?

[Northern Flyer]

To each his own, if a 1/50 of second beam of light refracting across the windscreen has you worried about losing control and crashing be very afraid of St Elmo’s Fire and lightning in the distance.

Have I ever experienced a laser strike (and I use that term loosely)... No, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. The only thing that has ever to come was small arms fire on final into a reserve, 2 or 3 .22 holes in the tail.

Isn’t the FMS making the decisions and driving by 2500 feet?

I agree totally. Fly into Sham town for awhile, than you can wine about shit when there are bullet holes in your plane. lol However I have never been the victim of a laser pointer attack, so I should not comment.

[slowstream]

Isn’t the FMS making the decisions and driving by 2500 feet?

First off I often hand fly to FL100 or even FL180 to keep the skills up.


As far as blowing things out of proportion, well in my day and likely long before many of you, yes we ran around and did all sorts of things as was suggested earlier but with one really big difference! We were held accountable! Did we do stupid things, yes and many times we were caught; you could be caught by anyone, because we all knew our neighbours. Then you had to fix what ever you broke or did that was stupid, then you had to go home and deal with your parents, which was far worse than the law could ever do! If you broke something that you could not fix or had the money to replace your parents had to, that the way things went, there were consequences for your actions. I admit I may not remember everything but I don't think we went to level that some of these kids are doing now a days, we did endanger aircraft or harm people physically.

I have never been hit with a laser but I have been flying into CYYC at the same time when other aircraft were hit with lasers! I don't know enough about the science of them to speak to possibility of eye damage, I can only go with what the officials tell us, that its dangerous and damaging. I don't have to drive drunk to know its foolish and dangerous too!

All I was trying to suggest is that more and more we seem to live in a society that does not take responsibility for their actions and kids get free rides for stupidity! Further more they know they can get away with it. You don't see this as a problem?

You may in fifteen or twenty years.

[MrWings]

This 38 year old "kid" just went through the courts. And yes, just a slap on the wrist.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmonto ... 34376.html

[The Old Fogducker]

I think an angry mob of pilots should have taken him to the own square and performed a highly ritualized disembowling as a lesson to any other ten year olds who might be contemplating the same thing.

The Old (where's the filetting knife) Fogducker

[pilotsteve]

"attempted manslaughter"? You mean attempted murder?

A 5W laser would be insane... it would never fit in a pen sized device either. You can get >100mW lasers shipped to canada quite easily and I wouldn't want those shined on my windscreen..

[Married a Canadian]

Why didn’t they change the approach sequence? Why not route aircraft away from these deadly laser attacks, just a thought but how about onto a heading that was into wind and reduce the effects of the mother of all crosswinds

So now we've gone from the typical 1000 feet strike to something in the 3000 to 4000 foot range... forget the astronomy lasers and pen lights it must have been a military grade laser. The perceived danger to aircraft and crew must have so great that night that everybody in the ATC system must have been frozen with fear

Ye know Gorgons..if you are trying to wind people up it sure works with comments like that.

OK..Friday night...I WAS working Toronto Terminal which is approach into YYZ...and although not quite frozen with fear I can tell you that neither ATC or flying was fun that night. Winds were in the vicinity of 280-290 from 41kts gusting up to 56 at times.
Now perhaps you could suggest which approach sequence we could try under those winds that has the pilots landing into it???? Given the configuration of YYZ neither the 24s or the 33s worked.....we tried and had overshoots galore on both.
So we are on the 24s...vectoring aircraft to final...utilising speed control as best as possible (which is impossible in the downwind) and setting guys up on the 24L localiser..ie final approach. Laser strikes were being called by aircraft ON FINAL APPROACH......whilst the pilots are trying their damndest to configure for landing in the winds I told you. Do you honestly think that the pilots would bother calling such a "nothing threat" in conditions such as these...and again I am sure the last thing on their minds is "OH I am sure it is only a shop bought laser"....You seem very blase about something that we and the pilots took rather seriously...

If you want to tell us how to do our jobs then be my guest....just try doing it with a little bit more assertion than "what was the big deal". BTW THe heading into wind was the turn onto final...which worked very nicely thankyou...shame about the pricks on the ground trying to distract the "bored" A320,A321, CRJ 1 and DHC 8 pilots that all felt moved to report...I wasn't quite so frozen that I couldn't report it to the shift manager who in turn contacts the police...as per our procedure. I believe they interview the pilots when they land aswell. We must be a nervous bunch.