Start fresh or buy existing?

[bluenote]

Which will take longer to do, get an Operational Certificate from scratch dealing with TC or see if someone is selling any present operational small aviation establishments to take over?

bluenote

[kiloindiapapa]

I looked into this a year ago when wanting to buy a fellows business. It seemed to me that its better and way faster to start with an existing as insurance would be in place, and all the sms in place ect. Having to do all this from scratch would be a huge task and cost some cash if you hired a consultant to help. At least for this one buying the shares and not cahnging anything would help keep the contracts as the clients would not necessarily know there was a change in ownership and still want to use a reputable company.

But if you have a unique idea then it might be worth to start fresh.

[bizjets101]

get an Operational Certificate from scratch dealing with TC or see if someone is selling any present operational

No question, buying an existing business will put you light years ahead!!

[Brewguy]

Starting fresh can be a very, very long, drawn out and exhausting process. Getting all of the manuals (Ops Manual, MCM, etc) written and approved is the longest part. You write it, send it in and wait for TC to get back to you, telling you what they want revised. You do those revisions, and in the meantime they've changed their mind on something else. And so it goes, back and forth.

Starting an FTU is a little easier and more straight-forward than a Commercial operation (70x). But a lot of the paperwork is the same / similar.

For a commercial, the CTA paperwork is quick, and they're much easier to deal with than TC can be .... although I always had great TC inspectors, and was lucky enough not to run into any major issues with them.

Buying an existing would seem much simpler; at least you have approved manuals, etc. to start with. The difficulty with an existing company comes when you want to make changes. Like with any business, you may want to make management and/or staff changes, and that can create some legal headaches.

In either case, expect to spend a fair amount of time and money before you have an operation you can truly call your own.

[bluenote]

I hear it can take 2 years.

[Brewguy]

I worked for an existing FTU that was expanding into 702 & 703. It took the better part of a year.

The maintenance side was easier, as we had the same TC inspector that we already knew and had a working relationship with. The Ops side took longer, as that inspector was new to us, and it took a bit of time for us to figure each other out. The cabin safety side of things was relatively quick & easy - although safety features cards can be costly to have developed if you're not operating a common type.

[snoopy]

Unless you intend to keep the same size and name of the existing business, starting from scratch will save you many headaches and lots of $$ in the long run. Even if you do intend to keep the same size and name of the existing business, often starting fresh will still save you said headaches and $$ - depending on the structure in place. Just because an operation is approved, doesn't necessarily mean it currently meets the CARS standards, and/or doesn't contain serious pitfalls that may later bite you in the ass. If you know what you're doing, or know someone who does, a fresh OC should be in hand within 6 months max. If you mickey-mouse it, well... the horror stories can be true.

Cheers,
Kirsten B.

[bluenote]

my wife won't agree with my ideas and beliefs so I think I'll abandon it. thanks for the info guys anyways.

[snoopy]

Maybe you should thank her!
Cheers,
Kirsten B.

[cncpc]

Unless you intend to keep the same size and name of the existing business, starting from scratch will save you many headaches and lots of $$ in the long run. Even if you do intend to keep the same size and name of the existing business, often starting fresh will still save you said headaches and $$ - depending on the structure in place. Just because an operation is approved, doesn't necessarily mean it currently meets the CARS standards, and/or doesn't contain serious pitfalls that may later bite you in the ass. If you know what you're doing, or know someone who does, a fresh OC should be in hand within 6 months max. If you mickey-mouse it, well... the horror stories can be true.

Cheers,
Kirsten B.

By far the most accurate response in this thread. If an existing operator is for sale, chances are it isn't worth buying and as Kirsten says, you never know what is hidden from you.

Anybody can call themselves a consultant and that is painfully true in the aviation business.

There is a process and good consultants know that process and do it the way TC wants. A good consultant already has approved manuals in Word, has all the application forms, knows who will be approved and who won't and doesn't need to be asking for this exemption to get this or that person in a position he or she isn't otherwise qualified for. A bad consultant, or do it yourselfers may well take two years. If it takes you more than 6 months to get an OC, you shouldn't be in the aviation business because, if you can't manage something as simple as that, what are you going to do when the really tough problems come up.