Future AME Discouraged

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robertw
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by robertw »

If you dislike this industry, there is a very simple solution. Get out. Obviously since you regard the pay as garbage, the expectations as unreasonable, and the glory of the job negligible, why are you still here? Get out and get re-trained in some other discipline that you will enjoy so you don't take any more years off your life due to the stress and frustration.
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Stumper
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by Stumper »

robertw wrote:If you dislike this industry, there is a very simple solution. Get out. Obviously since you regard the pay as garbage, the expectations as unreasonable, and the glory of the job negligible, why are you still here? Get out and get re-trained in some other discipline that you will enjoy so you don't take any more years off your life due to the stress and frustration.
Oh my God...


You're in love with me.
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by robertw »

Wish I could give you a great big hug.
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Stumper
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by Stumper »

robertw wrote:Wish I could give you a great big hug.
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Schimunga
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by Schimunga »

Where is the third amigo? I see Stumpy and BRV making the usual "how sh*tty the industry is" comment here but where is Pat?

So Stumpy, why are you in this industry if the pay is so bad? Have you tried to do something else and failed at it or just lacking the confidence to try?
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by Pat Richard »

:smt006
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by PJ1 »

Analysis
Examination of the aircraft revealed no pre-impact faults, and all damage was a result of several
tree and ground impacts. The aircraft was in controlled level flight when it struck the trees.

Lady's and Gent's, for $30 bucks an hour if your lucky, you get to have a week of sleepless nights, replaying in your head every detail of the maintenance you did. This profession has a disproportionate amount of responsibility versus pay.

Plumbers,electrician, heavy equipment mechanics, auto mechanics, elevator techs, pretty much every trade I can think of makes at least $30 an hour. None of these have to suffer on midnights, risk getting the shit sued out of them by the insurance company's.

Before all you kool aid drinkers tell me to get out, I am out.
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old apprentice
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by old apprentice »

This is the first time I've read this particular forum and I must say it is eyeopening. For the most part you guys with the years of experience have probably forgotten more than I know about working in the civilian aviation world. I've keenly observed that there are 2 camps when it comes to aviation. The first is no different than what I experienced in the airforce in that there are always chronic complainers no matter how good things are and another part of that is people that complain all the time are most likely a product of their environment. When you get shafted constantly, and deal with crap all the time you become a part of the dysfunctional attitue. Just my opinion. The other camp I see here are those people that have been part of the crap, have accepted it, learned from it and had the courage to stand up or walk away from it in pursuit of something better. Both camps have their merit. As a newbie to the "civilian" side of the house I have to say that unless I really looked hard at what is being said here I would be pretty discouraged in continuing to find my niche in the aviation industry. Again, I feel those that complain are justified in a way by the way they were/are treated but I don't condone negativety in the workplace. I would suggest using some of the energy to make a positive difference. If that can't be accomplished in a particular situation then have the courage to move on. I had it great in the airforce living in that utopian bubble of not worrying about getting canned because profits were down this or that quarter, not having to go out and spend thousands of dollars on tools, living feast or famine, etc. Now that my eyes are starting to open I am beginnig to realise that the real world is not such a warm and fuzziy place. I do have a couple things going for me that I feel are going to make it tolerable for me though. I am more mature and I know I have the right to walk away from something that is not right. I have been on EI since October and the few jobs I had before that were in min wage jobs but I keep working towards getting back into aviation. Either I'm a sucker or perhaps it's my love of anything aviation that keeps me pushing even when I get beat down like a dog. I'll get off my soapbox now. Cheers.
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by Stumper »

Schimunga wrote:Where is the third amigo? I see Stumpy and BRV making the usual "how sh*tty the industry is" comment here but where is Pat?

So Stumpy, why are you in this industry if the pay is so bad? Have you tried to do something else and failed at it or just lacking the confidence to try?
As posted in another thread:
Schimunga wrote:Troubleshot--Are you still in aviation or have you followed your younger brother's path and gone into IT if the money is better and less headaches?

To Pat and Stumper--Again, I have asked you this before and still haven't gotten an answer, if it is so bad in aviation why are you still in it?

If you read my posts you'll see they are not directed at those already in the industry; I respond to those thinking about getting in. I try to give an actuate picture of our industry and I have no problem calling out bullshit when I see it. I have tried to give the newbies the straight goods before they invest a lot of time and money into a job that isn't as it appears. If I've spouted any bs by all means feel free to call me on it. If I come off as negative it's because I call it like it is (and people who work for free piss me off).

Why am I still in it?

My professional situation is tolerable at the moment; I am in a relatively good place ( "above industry standard" in pay and working conditions). My personal situation makes it very difficult to retrain or start over again in something new. That said I absolutely will not give this industry any more then I already have; if I go through another bankruptcy, layoff or any other hiccup I am gone. It took me an inappropriate amount of time, hard work, personal sacrifice (which with the wisdom of age I now very deeply regret), and luck to get to where I am in this industry. Most of the kids asking for advice on spending years and thousands on pursuing this career will never even land their first job let alone get where I am.

And in all honesty, with the direction this trade is headed, if by chance they do finally make it to where I am whats gonna be left here for them? Call me negative all you want but I'm just trying to keep kids and newbies from making a mistake by providing honest non mouth foaming info on the trade...
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palebird
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by palebird »

$85 an hour huh..must be some kind of wizard..actually I really kind of doubt it, I call bs.. and as far as working for free go for it, maybe some day you will wake up and realize it was not a dream..
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by robertw »

85$ / hr is no joke. This guy was worth it. Now mind you, there aren't a lot of guys making a wage like that, but it's real.

As far as working for free, I wasn't. I was getting paid to wrench, just not anything extra for DOM responsibilities. I also now have the experience of DOM to put on my resume.
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palebird
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by palebird »

Buddy i really don't like to say I have seen it all but there is no avionics dude worth $85.00/hr period..maybe with someones back against the wall but forget about it..another urban myth..and you are talking to a godfather..
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by Pat Richard »

Im calling BS also.

The only way I'd see anyone getting that kinda coin is if they were an fantastic M, S, E(if you could hold that many ratings) combined, and they only needed a few hours sleep.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see that sort of wage territory for all good AME's, but Im being realistic.

I've never seen any E guy be worth that much and I 'd like to know what you think made him worth it.
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iflyforpie
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by iflyforpie »

I could see an Avionics guy or mech bringing in that much an hour..... as their hourly billing rate for their AMO. You're not going to get anywhere near 2080 billable hours per year per person though, and a ton of other expenses come out of that rate....
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azimuthaviation
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by azimuthaviation »

Im an avionics tech and I can testify we make roughly $85 an hour. Of ocurse those are Zimbabwean dollars, after you do the conversion. But gotta admire the guy for looking at the bright side.
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by Pat Richard »

You're not going to get anywhere near 2080 billable hours per year per person though

That's where I was coming from, an individual collecting that rate. I know AMO's charge that much when they send an employee out, who they might be paying 30ish(E) an hour to.

Maybe it should be clarified as to who was getting the 85 a/hr, the AME, or the AMO.

Im gonna say the AMO.
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by robertw »

I know this kind of wage is unusual, but the guy is in the avionics field and specializes in a niche of that field. He also is in the corporate world. Most corporate places charge an hourly rate upward of $120.00 / hr. We just had our aircraft down at a place that charges that much for "planned" maintenance. They have 6 facilities acros the US and the particular facility we were in has no less than 6 biz jets inthe hanger, at any given time. Their drop in rate is almost $170.00 / hr! Corporate is much more expensive than any sector of aviation in my opinion. If you've got a guy who you pay $176,800 / year, but makes your company say, half a million, per aircraft, why is it so hard to believe that he is paid that much?
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by azimuthaviation »

robertw wrote:If you've got a guy who you pay $176,800 / year, but makes your company say, half a million, per aircraft, why is it so hard to believe that he is paid that much?

Because someone else will do it for $40, 000 a year.

And avionics techs arent exactly the worlds best and brightest, to take the avionics program at SAIT:

Alberta High School Diploma or equivalent with at least 50% in the following courses or their equivalents: Pure Math 30 or Applied Math 30 and English Language Arts 30-1 or English Language Arts 30-2.
All applicants to SAIT Polytechnic must demonstrate English Language Proficiency prior to admission, including students educated in Canada.

A 50% pass mark and speak English.

At NAIT:
applicants must have completed the following prerequisites or equivalent courses:

English 30-1 or 30-2
one of Physics 30, Chemistry 30 or Science 30
Pure Math 30 or successful completion of Transitional Mathematics 101 or Algebra 35 (with a minimum of 65%)
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by robertw »

azimuthaviation wrote:
Because someone else will do it for $40, 000 a year.

And avionics techs arent exactly the worlds best and brightest, to take the avionics program at SAIT:

Alberta High School Diploma or equivalent with at least 50% in the following courses or their equivalents: Pure Math 30 or Applied Math 30 and English Language Arts 30-1 or English Language Arts 30-2.
All applicants to SAIT Polytechnic must demonstrate English Language Proficiency prior to admission, including students educated in Canada.

A 50% pass mark and speak English.

At NAIT:
applicants must have completed the following prerequisites or equivalent courses:

English 30-1 or 30-2
one of Physics 30, Chemistry 30 or Science 30
Pure Math 30 or successful completion of Transitional Mathematics 101 or Algebra 35 (with a minimum of 65%)

Ok. First off, a tech school grad has no where near the skills to do what this guy does and neither do the tech schools teach what he does. It is completely ridiculous to suggest that an apprentice could do what the fellow in question does. Let me emphasize that he is highly specialized in an avionics niche that happens to bring in lots of $$$ for his company. He is not an apprentice nor has he just gotten his M1. He is an industry veteran.

Secondly, it doesn't matter if you believe this or not. Call it BS if you want. I don't care. Your belief is not required for this to be reality. The point I was trying to make way back on page whatever of this discussion was simply that if you commit yourself to standing out among your peers in job performance, continuous learning, and taking on new challenges in this industry, you won't become one of those who constantly bemoan it. Employers will want you and be willing to pay you for your skills. The longer you are in this industry, the more you realize how small of a world it is. Make yourself a good reputation and employers will come looking for you.
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azimuthaviation
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Re: Future AME Discouraged

Post by azimuthaviation »

"Make yourself a good reputation and employers will come looking for you."

How long does this take, and when you get there, how many years do you have left?
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