Questions for YYZ Tower?

[cossack]

Over in the ATS questions forum I've started a thread for questions about YYZ Tower. So rather than hijack other threads ask all your YYZ Tower specific questions there.

Cheers

DC

[Bede]

OK, I'll start. I've been flying regularily out of YYZ for the past 5 years. When I started, YYZ was a gong show, but considering the traffic flow, it runs pretty darn good now. (Kudo's to ATC when the Wx is bad). When I started going into YYC 5 years ago, it ran pretty good; now it is the worst airport in the system. Yes I know, the runways are intersecting, corporate traffic, yada, yada, yada. However, there are airports with less space, more traffic, moving traffic a lot more efficiently. Something has to be done about YYC spacing between landers and departing traffic. Is it really necessary for a plane to hold short when a lander is 5 final? Flow when it's CAVOK? I better stop.

Sorry to hijack.

[Beefitarian]

The YYZ ATC guys probably followed their spouses to YYC 4 years ago.

[Inverted2]

"Rog" was really working it good today in YYZ. My beef is the useless ground control. We had to deice and left T1 gate 135 I think and had to taxi all the way down to where the old 'East Beach' was by taxiway DT then go all the way back to the deice pad. Took 18 mins to get off the frigging apron. You're usually airborne in Atlanta before that and they move way more aircraft than Toronto. So no beefs with the ATC but the ground has gotta get their #%#* together and don't ever switch frequencies on your own, (like most other airports do) because they will freak out on you!

[DanWEC]

Everyone here in the Toronto TCA knows the "Guy who says Rog"! He's a legend. Like . Norris.
Even landing traffic holds short when Rog says so.

[cossack]

OK, I'll start. I've been flying regularily out of YYZ for the past 5 years. When I started, YYZ was a gong show, but considering the traffic flow, it runs pretty darn good now. (Kudo's to ATC when the Wx is bad). When I started going into YYC 5 years ago, it ran pretty good; now it is the worst airport in the system. Yes I know, the runways are intersecting, corporate traffic, yada, yada, yada. However, there are airports with less space, more traffic, moving traffic a lot more efficiently. Something has to be done about YYC spacing between landers and departing traffic. Is it really necessary for a plane to hold short when a lander is 5 final? Flow when it's CAVOK? I better stop.

Sorry to hijack.

The thread for questions is over in ATS. This thread was just to point you there. Pilots! Can't follow instructions.

[cossack]

The YYZ ATC guys probably followed their spouses to YYC 4 years ago.

Just for the record, no YYZ Tower types have gone to YYC.

[cossack]

"Rog" was really working it good today in YYZ. My beef is the useless ground control. We had to deice and left T1 gate 135 I think and had to taxi all the way down to where the old 'East Beach' was by taxiway DT then go all the way back to the deice pad. Took 18 mins to get off the frigging apron. You're usually airborne in Atlanta before that and they move way more aircraft than Toronto. So no beefs with the ATC but the ground has gotta get their #%#* together and don't ever switch frequencies on your own, (like most other airports do) because they will freak out on you!

"Rog" doesn't work tower and if he did, he would have to do it the way the rest of us do.

You taxied that way because that's the flow to deicing when on the 15s. Can you think of a better way to get there that doesn't involve crossing 15L?

You have "no beefs with ATC" but criticize "ground" which is ATC. Do much deicing and/or snow removal in Atlanta?

Why should you be allowed to switch frequencies on your own? There are places where its allowed at YYZ (at the ends of 05, 06L and 23. There's a sign telling you to change and what the frequency is. We still give the change by voice because the majority of pilots don't read the sign and tower ends up looking for them. Anywhere else on the airport, do not ever change frequencies on your own. The guy you go to, will have no electronic flight data on you and will not move you. Especially do not change after landing on 06R/24L until across the inner and told to change.

Thanks

DC

[Beefitarian]

The YYZ ATC guys probably followed their spouses to YYC 4 years ago.

Just for the record, no YYZ Tower types have gone to YYC.

It was just a theory on Bede's role reversal complaint.

I'd be upset that I'm not allowed to fly into YYC with a 172 for $20 anymore but I don't fly enough to make it an issue.

[cossack]

The YYZ ATC guys probably followed their spouses to YYC 4 years ago.

Just for the record, no YYZ Tower types have gone to YYC.

It was just a theory on Bede's role reversal complaint.

I'd be upset that I'm not allowed to fly into YYC with a 172 for $20 anymore but I don't fly enough to make it an issue.

No worries. I bet you couldn't fly into YYZ for $20 either.

[Beefitarian]

Can you fly them into YYZ?

I read here there was a 12 000 lb lower limit at YYC.

[PunkStarStudios]

I think the last landing fee bill I saw was for $86.... but I'm positive I've seen their rates posted in a PDF on the GTAA website somewhre.

[gustind]

I called to get a slot from the GTAA once just for pretend. Any aircraft below whatever weight gets the same fee. I think the landing fee is around $120 for a C172.

[I WAS Birddog]

There's a sign telling you to change and what the frequency is. We still give the change by voice because the majority of pilots don't read the sign and tower ends up looking for them.

HEY!!!! FYI...not ALL pilots don't read the signs...I'm usually head down texting while taxiing

(of course....I jest)

[Inverted2]

"Rog" was really working it good today in YYZ. My beef is the useless ground control. We had to deice and left T1 gate 135 I think and had to taxi all the way down to where the old 'East Beach' was by taxiway DT then go all the way back to the deice pad. Took 18 mins to get off the frigging apron. You're usually airborne in Atlanta before that and they move way more aircraft than Toronto. So no beefs with the ATC but the ground has gotta get their #%#* together and don't ever switch frequencies on your own, (like most other airports do) because they will freak out on you!

"Rog" doesn't work tower and if he did, he would have to do it the way the rest of us do. I didn't say Rog worked tower. Re-read, and find where I said he worked tower. He was workign arrivals when I came in this am and departures after lunch

You taxied that way because that's the flow to deicing when on the 15s. Can you think of a better way to get there that doesn't involve crossing 15L? Yes. It is called not taxiing 5000' one way and then going backwards on a parallel taxiway when there was no traffic to warrant it. Could have turned for taxiway D at DQ

You have "no beefs with ATC" but criticize "ground" which is ATC. Do much deicing and/or snow removal in Atlanta?

Why should you be allowed to switch frequencies on your own? There are places where its allowed at YYZ (at the ends of 05, 06L and 23. There's a sign telling you to change and what the frequency is. We still give the change by voice because the majority of pilots don't read the sign and tower ends up looking for them. Anywhere else on the airport, do not ever change frequencies on your own. The guy you go to, will have no electronic flight data on you and will not move you. Especially do not change after landing on 06R/24L until across the inner and told to change. You guys just won't let the frequency change thing go after all these years. Do you get paid by the word? It seems to work fine everywhere else:lol:

Thanks

DC

[joe to go]

There have been a few times that I followed the instructions on the signs to "contact tower". I did so and the tower guy told me to go back to ground, so I did, only to have him tell me to contact tower. Go figure!

[Bede]

Cossack,

I was trying to compliment YYZ ATC and rant about YYC in the same post.

[cossack]

"Rog" was really working it good today in YYZ. My beef is the useless ground control. We had to deice and left T1 gate 135 I think and had to taxi all the way down to where the old 'East Beach' was by taxiway DT then go all the way back to the deice pad. Took 18 mins to get off the frigging apron. You're usually airborne in Atlanta before that and they move way more aircraft than Toronto. So no beefs with the ATC but the ground has gotta get their #%#* together and don't ever switch frequencies on your own, (like most other airports do) because they will freak out on you!

"Rog" doesn't work tower and if he did, he would have to do it the way the rest of us do. I didn't say Rog worked tower. Re-read, and find where I said he worked tower. He was workign arrivals when I came in this am and departures after lunch

You taxied that way because that's the flow to deicing when on the 15s. Can you think of a better way to get there that doesn't involve crossing 15L? Yes. It is called not taxiing 5000' one way and then going backwards on a parallel taxiway when there was no traffic to warrant it. Could have turned for taxiway D at DQ

You have "no beefs with ATC" but criticize "ground" which is ATC. Do much deicing and/or snow removal in Atlanta?

Why should you be allowed to switch frequencies on your own? There are places where its allowed at YYZ (at the ends of 05, 06L and 23. There's a sign telling you to change and what the frequency is. We still give the change by voice because the majority of pilots don't read the sign and tower ends up looking for them. Anywhere else on the airport, do not ever change frequencies on your own. The guy you go to, will have no electronic flight data on you and will not move you. Especially do not change after landing on 06R/24L until across the inner and told to change. You guys just won't let the frequency change thing go after all these years. Do you get paid by the word? It seems to work fine everywhere else:lol:

Thanks

DC

Inverted2
I know you know Rog doesn't work Tower. Note I sad "if" he worked tower. How do you know he was doing a great job? Just because you think he sounds cool? Give me a break. He's not Nick Falzone you know.

You taxied through the ramp to DT because that is the way you go. If there was no line on C beyond DQ, Apron could have sent you out there. If the line goes beyond DQ, then you go to DT. If you don't get out DQ then the line up backs up through the ramp which is not supposed to happen.

joe to go
That shouldn't happen, but ground probably meant to give you the voice transfer, didn't, you call tower at the sign, he doesn't have the data...etc. Ground and tower sit next to each other, so its not hard to lean over and ask for the FDE (electronic strip).

Bede
The compliment was noted. Don't be so hard on YYC eh?

[Beefitarian]

I called to get a slot from the GTAA once just for pretend. Any aircraft below whatever weight gets the same fee. I think the landing fee is around $120 for a C172.

That's crazy talk. I want a back rub and fancy meal thrown in for that much.

[gustind]

I called to get a slot from the GTAA once just for pretend. Any aircraft below whatever weight gets the same fee. I think the landing fee is around $120 for a C172.

That's crazy talk. I want a back rub and fancy meal thrown in for that much.

Interestingly enough I called in August of 09 I think. She didn't just say oh its $120, she explained that there is a $17 Central De-ice Facility fee, landing fee, ramp fee etc,.

[Beefitarian]

Classic. If I had the spare money I'd definately fly in there on a bright sunny summer day and demand they deice my C-206.

"I paid $17, I want my deice."

[Benwa]

I know you know Rog doesn't work Tower. Note I sad "if" he worked tower. How do you know he was doing a great job? Just because you think he sounds cool? Give me a break. He's not Nick Falzone you know.

That guy moves a lot of planes without losing is cool, plus he never asks for best rate of climb & maximum forward speed at the same time.

We miss him in Montreal !

[IFRATC]

In reference to "rog". For the record, all things may not be as rosey as they sound!!! YOU (pilots), may think he is the cats ass of ATC, but that is not the opinion from other ATC'ers.
Without trying to sound derogatory, alot of scenerios get "fixed" after coming from departure with vectors and speed because of "FALZONE". Some head scrtaching and scrambling is done at times because of the unexpected from said terminal controller. I am not saying I am perfect either, but just because they sound cool does not mean anything more than that!!!

IFRATC

[Bede]

IFRATC,

Bitter? I don't know how things look down there, but from my vantage point things seem to go awfully smoothly when he's working (not that they're bad when anyone else is working though). The thing that I like about rog is that he always tells you why he's doing something, so we see the big picture too. It gives us a lot more confidence in our controller. For example, we look at the TCAS and start cursing when we're vectored over Guelph without any traffic in sight, but rog will tell you why the big vector (heavy spacing, etc) and it all makes sense. I wish all controllers did that.

Keep up the good work YYZ ATC BTW.

I have a question. Do ATC types have standard arrival altitudes regardless if there's traffic or not. For example, coming in from ECK or south, we often have to start a decent like 250 NM out. It's kind of a pain. Is it always necessary or is it standard to avoid screw ups down the line?

[cossack]

Being a good controller isn't just about moving the airplanes around you scope, airport or runways. Its about working as part of a team and giving your colleagues the airplanes where, when and how they expect them to ensure that the safe and orderly flow is maintained.

Its no good doing everything just for yourself. As a tower controller I could say "cleared for take off" every 30 seconds and look and sound like I'm doing a fantastic job. (Sometimes I do, and I am, but that's a different story ) Chances are though, unless I have precisely the right mix of traffic, doing this will cause the guy on the receiving end to have a different opinion of me. Each controller has to provide the next controller with something he can work with.

Its no good an arrival controller giving the tower a gap a mile less than they need to fit a departure in. Sure the arrivals get down quicker, but what about the departures? Remember, you might be in the departure line up next time.

Its no good a tower controller handing the departure controller aircraft too close together or in a bad position relative to where they want to go. Sure you get off the ground quickly but he's so sewered you stay at 5000 feet and fly an extra 20 miles.

Its no good for a departure controller to give the en route aircraft in a place (geographically or vertically) that doesn't suit the flow of traffic through that area. Again you may be kept low or taken off course to re-establish order.

Yes we should provide you enough information to give you a picture of what's going on, but not at the expense of doing what others expect of us.

To be a good controller you have to be cool under pressure and work as part of a team and be respected by that team. If you can't do all of those things, then you'll never be considered a good controller by your fellow controllers no matter how cool you sound on the radio.

DC