Future AME Discouraged

This forum has been developed to discuss maintenance topics in Canada.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore

Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
robertw
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:07 pm
Location: Not Telling...

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#151 Post by robertw » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:54 pm

85$ / hr is no joke. This guy was worth it. Now mind you, there aren't a lot of guys making a wage like that, but it's real.

As far as working for free, I wasn't. I was getting paid to wrench, just not anything extra for DOM responsibilities. I also now have the experience of DOM to put on my resume.
---------- ADS -----------

palebird
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:17 am

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#152 Post by palebird » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:34 am

Buddy i really don't like to say I have seen it all but there is no avionics dude worth $85.00/hr period..maybe with someones back against the wall but forget about it..another urban myth..and you are talking to a godfather..
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
Pat Richard
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: all over

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#153 Post by Pat Richard » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:03 am

Im calling BS also.

The only way I'd see anyone getting that kinda coin is if they were an fantastic M, S, E(if you could hold that many ratings) combined, and they only needed a few hours sleep.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see that sort of wage territory for all good AME's, but Im being realistic.

I've never seen any E guy be worth that much and I 'd like to know what you think made him worth it.
---------- ADS -----------
http://mindflipbooks.ca/

User avatar
iflyforpie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7485
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:25 pm
Location: The Misty Mountains...

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#154 Post by iflyforpie » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:34 am

I could see an Avionics guy or mech bringing in that much an hour..... as their hourly billing rate for their AMO. You're not going to get anywhere near 2080 billable hours per year per person though, and a ton of other expenses come out of that rate....
---------- ADS -----------
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?

azimuthaviation
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1409
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:34 pm

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#155 Post by azimuthaviation » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:50 am

Im an avionics tech and I can testify we make roughly $85 an hour. Of ocurse those are Zimbabwean dollars, after you do the conversion. But gotta admire the guy for looking at the bright side.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
Pat Richard
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: all over

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#156 Post by Pat Richard » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:24 pm

You're not going to get anywhere near 2080 billable hours per year per person though

That's where I was coming from, an individual collecting that rate. I know AMO's charge that much when they send an employee out, who they might be paying 30ish(E) an hour to.

Maybe it should be clarified as to who was getting the 85 a/hr, the AME, or the AMO.

Im gonna say the AMO.
---------- ADS -----------
http://mindflipbooks.ca/

User avatar
robertw
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:07 pm
Location: Not Telling...

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#157 Post by robertw » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:15 am

I know this kind of wage is unusual, but the guy is in the avionics field and specializes in a niche of that field. He also is in the corporate world. Most corporate places charge an hourly rate upward of $120.00 / hr. We just had our aircraft down at a place that charges that much for "planned" maintenance. They have 6 facilities acros the US and the particular facility we were in has no less than 6 biz jets inthe hanger, at any given time. Their drop in rate is almost $170.00 / hr! Corporate is much more expensive than any sector of aviation in my opinion. If you've got a guy who you pay $176,800 / year, but makes your company say, half a million, per aircraft, why is it so hard to believe that he is paid that much?
---------- ADS -----------

azimuthaviation
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1409
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:34 pm

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#158 Post by azimuthaviation » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:49 pm

robertw wrote:If you've got a guy who you pay $176,800 / year, but makes your company say, half a million, per aircraft, why is it so hard to believe that he is paid that much?

Because someone else will do it for $40, 000 a year.

And avionics techs arent exactly the worlds best and brightest, to take the avionics program at SAIT:

Alberta High School Diploma or equivalent with at least 50% in the following courses or their equivalents: Pure Math 30 or Applied Math 30 and English Language Arts 30-1 or English Language Arts 30-2.
All applicants to SAIT Polytechnic must demonstrate English Language Proficiency prior to admission, including students educated in Canada.

A 50% pass mark and speak English.

At NAIT:
applicants must have completed the following prerequisites or equivalent courses:

English 30-1 or 30-2
one of Physics 30, Chemistry 30 or Science 30
Pure Math 30 or successful completion of Transitional Mathematics 101 or Algebra 35 (with a minimum of 65%)
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
robertw
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:07 pm
Location: Not Telling...

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#159 Post by robertw » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:24 am

azimuthaviation wrote:
Because someone else will do it for $40, 000 a year.

And avionics techs arent exactly the worlds best and brightest, to take the avionics program at SAIT:

Alberta High School Diploma or equivalent with at least 50% in the following courses or their equivalents: Pure Math 30 or Applied Math 30 and English Language Arts 30-1 or English Language Arts 30-2.
All applicants to SAIT Polytechnic must demonstrate English Language Proficiency prior to admission, including students educated in Canada.

A 50% pass mark and speak English.

At NAIT:
applicants must have completed the following prerequisites or equivalent courses:

English 30-1 or 30-2
one of Physics 30, Chemistry 30 or Science 30
Pure Math 30 or successful completion of Transitional Mathematics 101 or Algebra 35 (with a minimum of 65%)

Ok. First off, a tech school grad has no where near the skills to do what this guy does and neither do the tech schools teach what he does. It is completely ridiculous to suggest that an apprentice could do what the fellow in question does. Let me emphasize that he is highly specialized in an avionics niche that happens to bring in lots of $$$ for his company. He is not an apprentice nor has he just gotten his M1. He is an industry veteran.

Secondly, it doesn't matter if you believe this or not. Call it BS if you want. I don't care. Your belief is not required for this to be reality. The point I was trying to make way back on page whatever of this discussion was simply that if you commit yourself to standing out among your peers in job performance, continuous learning, and taking on new challenges in this industry, you won't become one of those who constantly bemoan it. Employers will want you and be willing to pay you for your skills. The longer you are in this industry, the more you realize how small of a world it is. Make yourself a good reputation and employers will come looking for you.
---------- ADS -----------

azimuthaviation
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1409
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:34 pm

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#160 Post by azimuthaviation » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:12 pm

"Make yourself a good reputation and employers will come looking for you."

How long does this take, and when you get there, how many years do you have left?
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
robertw
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:07 pm
Location: Not Telling...

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#161 Post by robertw » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:30 pm

Do you honestly think there is a pat answer for this? Of course you don't. You're being tongue in cheek. Your cynicism prompted that response. If there was a pat answer, then every AME would be here X number of years making $$$. Fact of the matter is that not everyone can have those top $ jobs. There are not as many to go around as the lower paying jobs. The thing is, if you have a good reputation, you're more likely to get one.
---------- ADS -----------

ChallengerDan
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:22 pm

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#162 Post by ChallengerDan » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:41 am

Pat Richard wrote:Im calling BS also.

The only way I'd see anyone getting that kinda coin is if they were an fantastic M, S, E(if you could hold that many ratings) combined, and they only needed a few hours sleep.
You should know better, Pat..... I'm not impressed with that one.
Get your M1 and M2..... then go through the CARs.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
Pat Richard
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: all over

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#163 Post by Pat Richard » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:30 am

Meaning what?

What I've been witness to is that tc will not let you hold an M1/M2, E, and S simultaneously. M1 with an S, M2 with an E, M1and M2, etc, but not everything. This was four years ago and was straight from tc. Could've changed since then, but Im not a casual reader of Car's, so I'd be waiting for confirmation of this from QA.
As for "ratings", I was referring to type endorsements. Ok???

Obviously I should have been more clear in my writing for you Danny, but the point I was making was that for the aforementioned wage I would think the person would have to be a superwrench encompassing all attributes of the maintenance trade to be demanding, and getting, $85 a/hr.
---------- ADS -----------
http://mindflipbooks.ca/

User avatar
iflyforpie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7485
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:25 pm
Location: The Misty Mountains...

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#164 Post by iflyforpie » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:56 am

Actually, when you hold an M1, M2, you automatically get privileges for E and S. I use my M1, M2 license for signing off work under our AMO's structures rating.
---------- ADS -----------
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?

ChallengerDan
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:22 pm

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#165 Post by ChallengerDan » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:39 pm

iflyforpie wrote:Actually, when you hold an M1, M2, you automatically get privileges for E and S. I use my M1, M2 license for signing off work under our AMO's structures rating.

Exactly what I meant.

Chapter 566. That's a really short chapter, by the way. It says that once you are issued an M1 and an M2, you won't be issued any more rating other than balloons as you already encompass E and S work scope.
Ratings are one thing. Type endorsments are another. All semantics, anyways.

Most people know about this, so I'm just surprised you didn't know about it. But hey....no big deal.



I did get the point about being a super mech in order to get 85$/hr.
If theres job out there that do pay that high, they are not common. And they are either in ultra weird/dangerous conditions or reserved to the ultra-gifted/hardest-working-ever/no-life/jack-of-all-trades-AND-master-of-all individuals.
I don't think I will ever see those numbers!
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
iflyforpie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7485
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:25 pm
Location: The Misty Mountains...

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#166 Post by iflyforpie » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:08 pm

It's the bell curve. Some guys do really good, some do really bad and either leave or continue for the 'love of aviation', 80% are right in the middle, making livable but mediocre wages in comparison to other skilled trades.
---------- ADS -----------
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?

User avatar
Pat Richard
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: all over

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#167 Post by Pat Richard » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:52 pm

After reading my reply, it seems to sound off a bit testy, which was not my intention, so apologies.

Anyway, back to the topic, I see there is some difference in opinions/facts. Up until the episode I witnessed I was of the same opinion as you guys, but I had it laid out by the dom as I previously posted. I also had another ame relate the same a few months later. So I don't know wtf is the current standard, and Im not currently suffering from severe enough insomnia to start thumbing through Car's.

If Im wrong, and that happens rarely :lol: , no problem.
---------- ADS -----------
http://mindflipbooks.ca/

624
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:36 pm

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#168 Post by 624 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:10 pm

As stated, an M1/M2 encompasses all the licensing scenarios. But here's the thing. If you work for an AMO with a (example) structures rating, you can only hold an ACA for structures if you have the required experience.
---------- ADS -----------

SeptRepair
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 768
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:41 pm
Location: Central Vancouver Island.

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#169 Post by SeptRepair » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:03 am

624 wrote:can only hold an ACA for structures if you have the required experience.
Exactly.
---------- ADS -----------
How can you tell which one is the pilot when you walk into a bar?....Don't worry he will come up and tell you.

User avatar
Pat Richard
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: all over

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#170 Post by Pat Richard » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:46 pm

Whatsa "Pat answer"???
---------- ADS -----------
http://mindflipbooks.ca/

User avatar
robertw
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:07 pm
Location: Not Telling...

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#171 Post by robertw » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:51 am

What I meant by a "pat answer" was a standard response to a question. This was by no means a poke at you Pat.
---------- ADS -----------

User avatar
Pat Richard
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:36 pm
Location: all over

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#172 Post by Pat Richard » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:18 pm

No problem, was just curious. :)
---------- ADS -----------
http://mindflipbooks.ca/

Wonderdog
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:48 pm

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#173 Post by Wonderdog » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:54 pm

Get over it.... Great tool, then, fun again....Fine fish hook fixer...., then, have fun again.

SMcL.
hmmm...., have funnie. and her sister...
---------- ADS -----------

Cyclenut
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:29 pm

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#174 Post by Cyclenut » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:26 am

624 wrote:As stated, an M1/M2 encompasses all the licensing scenarios. But here's the thing. If you work for an AMO with a (example) structures rating, you can only hold an ACA for structures if you have the required experience.
Great point, AND DON'T FORGET you must also be able to prove you have obtained the required "S" basic training. (which is different that the M basic training)

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/s ... s-2464.htm

A lot of people 'forget' the same thing about "E" endorsements, that you MUST have "E" basic training, and meet the experience requirement.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/s ... s-2552.htm


Just because TC won't issue any 'additional ratings' once you have an M1/M2 doesn't mean you don't need to prove Basic Training and Experience if you are ever called on the carpet. (TC or TATC or Civil Court) There are some AME's with M1/M2 who think they can just sign anything without thinking about what 'privileges' they actually have.
---------- ADS -----------

DrBoeing
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:29 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Future AME Discouraged

#175 Post by DrBoeing » Fri May 13, 2011 9:19 am

Back to the topic!!!!!!!

If you really like working on aircraft,then this may be the job for you. Be forewarned, if you sign on with a major, your first 10 to 15 years will be on steady midnights. If you can handle the mids, great, if you can not, you will be in for a world of hurt from sleep deprivation!
Pay is so so at best, get ready for working Christmas day and other stat holidays. If you get on a 4x4 type shift, you will love that. I have been on a 4x4 for years and seriously can not see myself going back to a Monday to Friday 9-5 routine. You will make some great friends who will likely end up being your best friends.
It will be hard on your family life as you will miss some of the things I listed above, plus if you have children, be prepared to miss some important events in their lives.
You will find bosses trying to force you to sign out aircraft that should not fly, stand your ground and do not let them bully you.
If you work the line, most pilots respect your opinion and trust what you say, a few need some air let out of their egos, but most are good people!
Keep track of every aircraft you work on, shite happens and you may be required to go back to your notes, even months later, I speak from experience.
Last but certainly not least, keep your wits about you, it is very easy to be injured in this profession. I was almost killed a few years back and am still to this day dealing with the fall out of that accident, lawyers are involved and a law suite is likely.
---------- ADS -----------

Post Reply

Return to “Maintenance”