Keep your heads down boys and girls.........

[Norwegianwood]

The "Strach is back" and is in the process of selling the farm once again........ This from the FP today!!!!!


"The Air Canada Pilots Association has not set formal bargaining dates yet, but has been meeting informally with management and hopes to achieve a new labour pact outside of collective bargaining, said Paul Strachan, the pilots union president."

[bcflyer]

I believe all he is saying is that the pilots are in negotiations outside of the normal collective bargaining. I wouldn't be too concerned about Mr Stachan selling the farm...

[Norwegianwood]

I believe all he is saying is that the pilots are in negotiations outside of the normal collective bargaining. I wouldn't be too concerned about Mr Stachan selling the farm...

Disagre completely! The said individual and his cronies have a very narrow minded agenda and will stop at nothing until they have driven this association into the ground in their push to get it! 'nuf said.......

[bcflyer]

The quote you posted simply says that ACPA has been negoitiating with the company outside of formal talks. ie they haven't filed an official notification to negotiate. Nothing sinister there. We all knew they were doing that.

Your opinion of Mr Strachan is a completely separate issue.....

[Norwegianwood]

Your opinion of Mr Strachan is a completely separate issue.....

Yup! and I care NOT to call him Mr. He prefers Capt. Sir................

[bcflyer]

Thats odd. The few times that I've met him he prefered to be called Paul...

PS There are alot of guys as A/C that prefer to be called Capt.........

[mitsos]

Withdrawn...

Cheers Doug....

[Doug Moore]

This business of name-calling, or what one wishes or believes one should be called, serves no purpose other than to distract attention away from the discussion at hand. Such diversions are, in fact, counterproductive.

Norwegianwood expressed concern that ACPA President Strachan was “in the process of selling the farm”. We had a retort from bcflyer who expressed that he was not at all “too concerned” about the ACPA President selling his farm. In my view, the President’s public comments before a Parliamentary Standing Committee on 15 Feb 11 should be of concern to all ACPA Members.

The President, when addressing the Committee on the matter of mandatory retirement based on age, described the pilot’s retirement pension as “very generous” and characterized the current pilot’s wage scale as one of a “progression … to overpayment in the final years …”. Such public comments by any ACPA official should be ringing alarm bells in every cockpit! There’s no point in trying to close the barn door after that horse has bolted; suffice it to say that you shouldn’t be surprised to see those words come back to haunt you at the negotiating table.

So while this may not constitute “selling the farm” such public musings coming from a union official are nonetheless startling and should be a source of concern for all the Membership – that is, if you have any expectation for improvements in the areas of pay and pension coming out of the current round of negotiations.

Cheers,

By the way, if anyone is interested, these are the exact words of the ACPA President to which I refer above: “Concomitant with our pension provisions, which I say are very generous, we have a true deferred wage scheme. And by that I mean we have a ladder of progression on our wage scale that starts very low, artificially low, in the early years of employment, and ramps up over the course of one's career, and in fact, to overpayment in the final years, which allows our members to maximize their retirement earnings. Because their final average earnings, their FAE is calculated on the basis of those five final years.”

[Rockie]

“Concomitant with our pension provisions, which I say are very generous, we have a true deferred wage scheme. And by that I mean we have a ladder of progression on our wage scale that starts very low, artificially low, in the early years of employment, and ramps up over the course of one's career, and in fact, to overpayment in the final years, which allows our members to maximize their retirement earnings. Because their final average earnings, their FAE is calculated on the basis of those five final years.”

Of course what he didn't say is that it's also based on years of service. 35 to be exact. And that only a small portion of the pilots currently employed at Air Canada will get that if ACPA has anything to say about it.

[yycflyguy]

“Concomitant with our pension provisions, which I say are very generous, we have a true deferred wage scheme. And by that I mean we have a ladder of progression on our wage scale that starts very low, artificially low, in the early years of employment, and ramps up over the course of one's career, and in fact, to overpayment in the final years, which allows our members to maximize their retirement earnings. Because their final average earnings, their FAE is calculated on the basis of those five final years.”

Of course what he didn't say is that it's also based on years of service. 35 to be exact. And that only a small portion of the pilots currently employed at Air Canada will get that if ACPA has anything to say about it.

No he didn't mention the 35 years required to maximize a pension plan.

He stated some obvious facts. It IS a compensation deferred system. It DOES start artificially low and compensation ISmaximize by the end of your career and because of this system, your pension IS calculated based on your best 5 years which, previously, coincided with your last 5 years. Thanks to CCAA and career stagnation that wont be the case for many.

You guys sure get worked up over the unfortunate words "overpayment" and "generous". Sheesh. Not EVERYONE is out to get you!

[Doug Moore]

Hi yycflyguy,

Yes, the words “generous” and “overpayment” were an unfortunate choice of words and perhaps the President, upon reflection, might wish to choose his words differently, were he able to revisit his presentation. That’s the point. When one puts forth one’s ideas, particularly in a public forum, words should be chosen very carefully in order that they not later be used against you.

I agree: “Not EVERYONE is out to get you.” Go tell that to your employer. I’m confident that they’ll agree with you too, and at the same time make every effort not to allow even the hint of a smile to come across their face. On the other hand, maybe a big smile from them is all it takes to convince you that they’re on your side.

Cheers,

[yycguy]

And by that I mean we have a ladder of progression on our wage scale that starts very low, artificially low, in the early years of employment, and ramps up over the course of one's career, and in fact, to overpayment in the final years, which allows our members to maximize their retirement earnings. Because their final average earnings, their FAE is calculated on the basis of those five final years.”

I am just wondering if anyone had done a comparison between this system and a system that pays more evenly over the course of a 35 year career, allowing for a junior pilot to put more money away into a personal retirement savings plan from day 1, and allowing for greater compounding interest over those 35 years? I wonder how the numbers would compare.

[bcflyer]

Wow this thread has definitely drifted. My comment was in relation to the original quote posted by Norwegianwood. Mr Strachan merely said that they were trying to come up with a new contract outside of the usual bargaining process. ie official notification of bargaining etc... At that point ACPA hadn't filed intent to bargain papers and as such the talks that are ongoing were technically "outside of collective bargaining" Somehow Norwegianwood interpreted that as "selling the farm"

There can be no new collective agreement without the membership voting it in. You can yell and scream all you like about narrowminded agenda's etc etc but in the end its the pilots that will make the final decision.....

[MackTheKnife]

There can be no new collective agreement without the membership voting it in. You can yell and scream all you like about narrowminded agenda's etc etc but in the end its the pilots that will make the final decision.....

The history of ACPA has proven that the members have followed suit like blind little sheep to what ever garbage the MEC recommended. I see no reason to believe this round will be any different.

[bcflyer]

That may be true but my statement still stands. If the pilots don't educate themselves before voting on the thing that affects their lives the most, (the CA) then they are responsible for whatever they get.