Repeal of Mandatory Retirement Bill Passes Second Reading

[Rockie]

This has gone beyond absurd. Either ACPA has hired the world's worst lawyers and aren't smart enough to see it yet after six years, or there is something else behind their stand against ending mandatory retirement. If the latter is true then they have lied to the membership and executed this utterly destructive strategy under false pretences.

[Mechanic787]

A third IAM member, post age65, has just been given the grievance / arbitration green light. It won't be long now before Air Canada will agree to stop the arbitrations and allow members over the normal age of retirement to simply stay employed, pending the outcome the of the CHRT proceedings, rather than processing each member who wants to stay through the expensive grievance / arbitration process.

[accumulous]

A third IAM member, post age65, has just been given the grievance / arbitration green light. It won't be long now before Air Canada will agree to stop the arbitrations

From a previous Runaway Train post:

Tagging along in the Caboose is the Mother Corp, watching the drama unfold in the chain up ahead.
Just before the steam engine at the front slams into the end of the tunnel, the Mother Corp will quietly get up, walk to the front of the Caboose, open the door a crack, and just slip the chain out of the coupler, and wave goodbye.

It over with, boys. This puppy went into overdrive and hit the end of the tunnel exactly the same time the Federal Court brought down the gavel. We arrived at the scene of that crash right on schedule.

Now our ill-fated Hindenburg is about to set sail for the Federal Court of Appeal, carrying the last train wreck survivors on a fruitless lurching cross-country tour for a second opinion that will never materialize.

We are witnessing the hallmark of a doomed blimp that is just too antiquated and cumbersome to even get out of its own way.

Lightning in all quadrants, radar painting solid red, no other plan but tie off the tiller and ride it into the dirt.

To the audience watching this unbelievable drama come mercifully to its rapid conclusion, the show stopper must have been when we told the entire nation, live on the air, that individual rights are subordinate. Lip service to individuals, followed by the suggestion of a clause excluding individuals, right in front of Parliament, the Pinnacle of the Pyramid, the very organization that champions individual rights in the first place.

When some Sociology Professor in a Canadian University writes the book on this, that will be one of the defining moments.

And when 3 major solid National Unions decipher the weather forecast correctly, in a matter of minutes, and act accordingly, in the best interests of their respective Memberships, they’re obviously getting out of the way and making plenty of room for us to thunder into the turf on our own.

Hang on.

[Mechanic787]

A Notice of Motion was filed before the CHRT last week on behalf of a former Air Canada Customer Service Sales Agent, seeking a declaration that the Tribunal was bound by the Federal Court decision of February 3rd to find that a discriminatory practice had taken place regarding his termination of employment. Thin edge of the wedge. This motion is expected to be joined in hearing my other parties before the Tribunal on similar cases. If the Tribunal finds in favour of the motion, that will end all liability hearings before the Tribunal with respect to all mandatory retirement cases at Air Canada.

Regardless of what the Tribunal decision said with respect to the Vilven-Kelly decision applying only to those two pilots, this new decision will apply to all subsequent complainants, and set a precedent for all cases proceeding directly to remedy, including reinstatement. The basis of the decision is the binding impact of the Federal Court decision, combined with the legal principle of abuse of process.

[Rockie]

"(1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability."



Not simply some obscure quote, these are the most basic human rights that are the core values of Canadian society enshrined in our Constitution Act. They take precedence over all else including ACPA's collective agreement with Air Canada, despite what many of our pilots and union believe.

It should be obvious by now even to the most myopic among us that Canadian society, the Canadian Government, the Canadian legal system, the CHRT and CHRC, and pretty much everybody else outside of ACPA considers mandatory retirement age discriminatory, and therefore a violation of the basic human rights protected by the Constitution Act.

It does not matter if individual ACPA elected officials agree with that or not, nor does it matter if some, most or all of our pilots agree with it. It is fact, and if you want to live and work in Canada those are the principles and law under which you must conduct yourself.

Whether or not ACPA officials agree with it, they have a moral, ethical and legal duty to uphold and defend their members individual rights in accordance with the law as every other union at Air Canada and elsewhere does. Instead we have the shameful spectacle of our union actively working for six years now to deny its members those rights. As the CHRT and legal box closes in on them taking away their ability to deny those rights outright, they still seek to limit them as much as possible.

It is nothing short of a disgrace, and every ACPA official that has been party to this should resign immediately and sign up for a Canadian citizenship course.

[LeadingEdge]

"(1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability."



Not simply some obscure quote, these are the most basic human rights that are the core values of Canadian society enshrined in our Constitution Act. They take precedence over all else including ACPA's collective agreement with Air Canada, despite what many of our pilots and union believe.

It should be obvious by now even to the most myopic among us that Canadian society, the Canadian Government, the Canadian legal system, the CHRT and CHRC, and pretty much everybody else outside of ACPA considers mandatory retirement age discriminatory, and therefore a violation of the basic human rights protected by the Constitution Act.

It does not matter if individual ACPA elected officials agree with that or not, nor does it matter if some, most or all of our pilots agree with it. It is fact, and if you want to live and work in Canada those are the principles and law under which you must conduct yourself.

Whether or not ACPA officials agree with it, they have a moral, ethical and legal duty to uphold and defend their members individual rights in accordance with the law as every other union at Air Canada and elsewhere does. Instead we have the shameful spectacle of our union actively working for six years now to deny its members those rights. As the CHRT and legal box closes in on them taking away their ability to deny those rights outright, they still seek to limit them as much as possible.

It is nothing short of a disgrace, and every ACPA official that has been party to this should resign immediately and sign up for a Canadian citizenship course.

You know, you are probably one of the most persistent anti-ACPA posters that I have ever seen. It makes me wonder what you agenda really is, however, I'll assume that you are retired. If not, well perhaps you can explain why your cause is so much more important than the wishes of the Majority of ACPA members? Which, by the way, the union is legally bound to represent.

As an ACTIVE member of ACPA, I am getting very tired of the constant anti-ACPA comments by retired former ACPA members. If this union was so bad, why are so many of you trying to come back?? Most retired Pilots today, have had the best career in canadian aviation - period. You should be grateful.

Do you currently pay dues if you are retired - NO. Ergo, ACPA has NO responsibility to you, so get over it.

The arrogance of your group never ceases to amaze me. Just like the recent Globe article, am I supposed to feel sorry for the poor retired Captain who is unfortunately going to earn $270K/yr... You people are going to get a reality check.

Maybe you should read the comments attached to the article to see how the public views your cause.

[Rockie]

You know, you are probably one of the most persistent anti-ACPA posters that I have ever seen. It makes me wonder what you agenda really is, however, I'll assume that you are retired. If not, well perhaps you can explain why your cause is so much more important than the wishes of the Majority of ACPA members? Which, by the way, the union is legally bound to represent.

Like you I am an active member of ACPA. My agenda is intelligent, responsible representation by a union that we all pay dues for but are not receiving. My cause is a union that fulfills their legal responsibility, which by the way is not to the majority of ACPA members. Their legal responsibility is to every pilot at Air Canada whether or not they agree with the majority, and even if they are not members of the union. It is written there in black and white in Canadian Labour Law which they should be fully up to speed on. Since I doubt you have read it I've included the quote for your benefit below. You will note the word "majority", or even "member" does not appear anywhere in this paragraph, but rather the word "employee".

"37. A trade union or representative of a
trade union that is the bargaining agent for a
bargaining unit shall not act in a manner that is
arbitrary, discriminatory or in bad faith in the
representation of any of the employees in the
unit with respect to their rights under the collective
agreement that is applicable to them."

[TAT]

Rocky, I'm pro for Age 60 retirement especially in our case where everything is driven by seniorty. Do you really think that things will remain status quo should this removal of the Age 60 "Forced" retirement? If this does pass and it is changed working conditions are going to change dramatically as well as pension rules. Im not going to be willing to support pension top hats nor the top wages and sked.. that you currently enjoy. The first chance i get to vote those things away for a better contract or bottom line for "me" i will, since all of the baby boomers in this country are not thinking of their successors.

[TAT]

"37. A trade union or representative of a
trade union that is the bargaining agent for a
bargaining unit shall not act in a manner that is
arbitrary, discriminatory or in bad faith in the
representation of any of the employees in the
unit with respect to their rights under the collective
agreement that is applicable to them."

Well, the way I read this is the the union has the responsibility to protect you and your rights under the collective agreement (Currently age 60). Thus why they will not accept your grievance. I for one hope the CHRC is disbanded since it is comprised of Non-elected individuals that may or may not have the Same interests as the majority of the population.

I hope the fly past 60 group takes on the insurance companies here in Ontario, i do remember paying more than my sister did for car insurance...

[Rockie]

Of course our system will have to change. The only reason people want to keep mandatory retirement is because it offers the only benefit to our hugely disparate pay. Change that and ending mandatory retirement all of a sudden becomes the best thing going. ACPA is not going to win this fight and you can be sure they know it. They were told so by their lawyers in 2005, so I have to wonder what their real motive is for fighting this instead of making the necessary changes to make it work for everyone.

Mandatory retirement is age discrimination as declared by the CHRT and Federal Court. ACPA's opinion to the contrary doesn't count, and our contract no longer adheres to the law. People have asked ACPA to represent them in a grievance supporting their right to not be discriminated against and have been refused. Furthermore ACPA's actions over the last year have definitely been in bad faith toward those members seeking to assert their rights against age discrimination. I suggest you read that paragraph again carefully.

[TAT]

If Mandatory retirement is against the law how come there hasn't been an order to change it by the federal courts? If an election is called before the private members bill is passed (or its amended) I would suggest this battle will be continuing for some time yet, no?

[Rockie]

Yes it will be fought for some time. Each case will be duly fought at great cost and with the same result until the government gets around to making the written legislation current with legal rulings.

[accumulous]

If Mandatory retirement is against the law how come there hasn't been an order to change it by the federal courts? If an election is called before the private members bill is passed (or its amended) I would suggest this battle will be continuing for some time yet, no?

Yes that's correct. In any event Bill C-481 would take 12 months to come into effect after the vote, and so pilots, in lieu of that piece of legislation are for now still required to file with the CHRC, and that is taking place on a weekly basis. The numbers are approaching 200 and rising rapidly.

The enactment of C-481 would not be retroactive in the sense of abolishing mandatory retirement. But all pilots have 12 months from their date of forced retirement to file for reinstatement and that is what they are doing in an accelerated manner.

Every single Complainant is being referred to the Tribunal. Individuals are being placed into groups for expediency, as for example the Thwaites group having close to 70 members. The next group behind that would have a similar number.

The IAM, CUPE, and the CAW, have all sought legal opinions and have issued public statements that the forced retirement of their membership, in their opinion, is not sustainable and they are now running rapid arbitrations to return their over 65 members to active duty, who have already been force retired. They agree with the findings of the Federal Court.

AC's forced retirement of pilots is coming to a swift end as all the stars move into alignment. Filing for reinstatement is a simple matter of calling the CHRC through their 1-888 number.

They will forward the necessary forms to Complainants.

Filing is free of charge.

It would normally take about a half hour to fill out the forms. They are more than happy to help you with the forms. It's a quick and easy process.

The most expedient method is to return them by fax, and then you are immediately assigned a reference case number. From that point the process clicks onto autopilot.

Contact information

Canadian Human Rights Commission
344 Slater Street, 8th Floor, Ottawa, Ontario K1A 1E1, Canada
Telephone: (613) 995-1151
Toll Free: 1-888-214-1090
TTY: 1-888-643-3304
Fax: (613) 996-9661

[Mechanic787]

Unofficially, this memo is from the IAMAW to its members re the Moncton arbitration award. [Note: the Grievor had earlier exercised his option under the collective agreement to work part-time. The arbitration concerned itself with his ability to continue working part-time, subsequent to his 65th birthday]:

PRACTICAL APPLICATION

For reasons other than pension agreement or performance inabilities, the Tribunal has ruled that the act of mandatory retirement is discriminatory. These rulings are legally binding interpretations of the CHRA, for which the Tribunal is mandated to determine.

[Grievor], as an Air Canada employee, is not subject to pension provisions or health benefits and he has returned to work part time following retirement. He is not part of the pension fund nor is he receiving benefits outside of his retiree pension. Thus there is no practical application with regards to [Grievor] in the matter of pension management.

Secondly, to address issues regarding job performance, [Grievor] has no limiting factors with regards to health or ability and is fully capable of performing his duties set forth by the employer. Moreover, should an employee, regardless of age, become unable to perform their duties, it is the responsibility of the employer to accommodate that employee until such time as it becomes a hardship on the employer.

The practice of mandatory retirement has clearly and legally been determined to be a discriminatory act prohibited by the CHRA if it serves no practical application. [Grievor] is healthy, willing to work and is not subject to pension and/or benefits and is thus being forced to retire solely because of his age.

The provision for "normal age of retirement" is also flawed as decided by the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal. Air Canada is one of the largest employers in the sector and has, in effect, instituted the "normal age of retirement" by acting in a discriminatory manner. It has been found by the Tribunal that Air Canada does not satisfy this requirement in section 15 of the CHRA.

[Grievor] shall be allowed to return to work within 10 business days, with no loss of seniority or level of pay and will be fully compensated for the time during which he was not allowed to perform his duties. If these conditions are not met, another complaint shall be filed against Air Canada with the Canadian Human Rights commission.

[Rockie]

ACPA is all alone in failing to understand the contemporary definition of age discrimination. Worse than that they are the only group that can't seem to understand the meaning of successive legal rulings against them. We look like the fools we are.

[MackTheKnife]

As an ACTIVE member of ACPA, I am getting very tired of the constant anti-ACPA comments by retired former ACPA members. If this union was so bad, why are so many of you trying to come back?? .

You should be grateful.

Do you currently pay dues if you are retired - NO. Ergo, ACPA has NO responsibility to you, so get over it.

Gratefull ??? you got to be kidding !!! I literally despise ACPA for what they have done. Most of us would still be active members of the union if ACPA had followed their legal responsibilities of representation.

Do you think for one New York minute we will sign on the dotted line and become ACPA members when we return?

You are dead wrong regarding ACPA's responsibilities towards members they have forced retired, misrepresented or even worse, hung out to dry as in the case of the now close to 200 complainents.

And finally, I suggest you go back and re-read those comments. This time with a mindset of Joe Public. It was downright embarassing to read the comments in the recent article. Your group successfully lowered this profession to the lowest of lows as the posters came across looking like 2 year old children recently weened off Mommy, crying like babies to the Canadian public displaying behavior indicative of not having 2 brain cells to be found within the entire group.

[HavaJava]

Uh Oh! They're getting grumpy again!

[Rockie]

I was wondering where my matching hat and coat went....

[SilentMajority]

This time with a mindset of Joe Public. It was downright embarassing to read the comments in the recent article. Your group successfully lowered this profession to the lowest of lows.......

Just imagine if the travelling public caught a glimmer of what transpires on the ACPA forum on a daily basis. Keep in mind..... this stuff is coming from the "pilots that every pilot wants to be." .....we keep this up and we'll be paying our passengers!

[Understated]

Maybe you should read the comments attached to the article to see how the public views your cause.

Maybe you should read the comments of the Tribunal or the Court or the Parliamentarians to see how they view our cause. They are the ones that count. They are the only ones that count. "Reinstatement of employment." "Damages of over $100,000 per pilot reinstated, payable jointly by Air Canada and ACPA." "Repeal of mandatory retirement is in the interests of society because mandatory retirement is an archaic concept not consistent with contemporary values under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms."

When you have finished reading those comments, read the comments of the IAM, CUPE and the CAW. The CAW used to take the most extreme position on mandatory retirement, opposing its repeal at every opportunity, and forcing its own members to leave the union officer positions when they reached the normal age of retirement. But now there is a 180 degree reversal by all three unions. They all say that they have a duty to take their members to grievance and arbitration to get them reinstated because, they say, they are bound by our decision at the Federal Court! Mandatory retirement is now illegal, according to their interpretation of the decision. And mark my words, it won't be long before the Tribunal issues a general ruling saying the same thing: it is bound by the Federal Court decision. Probably in the next case that comes before it.

Then when you get finished reading their words (not just the words quoted above, but their actual messages to the Tribunal and to their own members), you might want to ask your union leaders about the new legal proceedings launched against ACPA recently, in addition to the CHRC complaints. What advice are they getting about the potential successful defence of those actions? How long does ACPA's MEC think it can sustain this charade that the determination to go to the Supreme Court of Canada is going to prevent their house of cards from falling down before they arrive there?

[land3]

Just imagine if the travelling public caught a glimmer of what transpires on the ACPA forum on a daily basis. Keep in mind..... this stuff is coming from the "pilots that every pilot wants to be." .....we keep this up and we'll be paying our passengers!

For the most part, it's the same dozen or so vocal individuals that do most of the vitriol postings on the ACPA forum. The majority of visitors to the forum are lurkers like myself.

And I suspect that, like myself, most of the members ignore a lot of the bullshit stuff because it is so one-sided.

[Mechanic787]

The turning point in this whole legal mess came shortly after the Federal Court decision was rendered. Namely, the reinstatement of IAM members by the arbitrator Teplitsky. That was the watershed moment, as there is no going back, holding employees out of service pending the final decisions.

Absent a total win by ACPA either at the Federal Court of Appeal or at the Supreme Court of Canada, to overturn the Federal Court decision on the Charter, reinstatement is here to stay.

The turning point for ACPA will be the release of the CIRB's decision on the duty of fair representation complaint. Once the CIRB rules that ACPA cannot represent one side against the other and that it must allow its pilots go to grievance and arbitration, reinstatement will occur similarly, and the employer will lose its ability to arbitrarily terminate anyone, pending the final outcome of the CHRT proceedings.

Apparently, the CIRB decision will not be long in coming, now. It may even arrive before the Tribunal delivers the Thwaites decision (remember Thwaites?).

[Rockie]

For the most part, it's the same dozen or so vocal individuals that do most of the vitriol postings on the ACPA forum. The majority of visitors to the forum are lurkers like myself.

And I suspect that, like myself, most of the members ignore a lot of the bullshit stuff because it is so one-sided.

I think you are right. However only a few individuals have tried to argue the case for eliminating mandatory retirement along with attempting to inject some civility into the debate, and they have all given up. If there is a silent majority it is high time they stopped being silent and began making their opinions known to the vitriolic few and their union.

[Norwegianwood]

If there is a silent majority it is high time they stopped being silent and began making their opinions known to the vitriolic few and their union.

YES!!!!! Now you (we) are talking, the time has come for the tail to stop wagging the dog.

[dutchman]

I keep hearing of an ACPA forum. The last link to acpilotsforum I have is no longer valid. What is the website hosting the forum?

Thanks in advance,

Dutchman