Converting old French PPL to Canadian PPL

[Ferris]

Hello all,

I've just moved to Montreal from France and would like to know how to convert my French PPL to a Canadian PPL.
One important thing to know is that I haven't flown for 20 years so my PPL isn't up to date and neither is my flying.
So I've started all over again at a Flight School here attending ground school and flying the ole 152. I'm aware of the fact that I have to get a lot of instructor time to get back to level and I'm actually asking for it. I will not go flying solo until my instructor and I are fully confident I'm up to date and safe.
But if I can save a few hours by getting credit of the 75 hours flown in France 20 years ago, that would be great.

I just finished the 40 hours of ground school, passed my Cat 1 Medical and dug up my old (signed off) logbook.
So what's the first step?

I've been browsing through TC and have found information on this page but I find unclear what I spefically have to do:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/r ... m#421_26_8

I also found the following form, do you think this is my first step in contacting TC?
http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca- ... -02_bo.pdf

Thank you very much for any help.

Fly safe!

Ferris

[Hedley]

how to convert my French PPL to a Canadian PPL

I can help you with that. As an Authorized Person I have coached USA pilots through the process of getting Canadian licences.

By the way, your English (and even your Canadian) is superb. Far better than mon francais!

I haven't flown for 20 years so my PPL isn't up to date and neither is my flying

Ok. First thing you need to learn is to not confuse the real world, with the paper world.

Let's consider the paper world, for the time being.

You hold a French PPL. France is an ICAO signatory. This is a good thing. Now, you have two choices:

1) easy way. Get a Cdn PPL based upon your French PPL, and noted as such.
2) get a full-flown Canadian PPL, again based upon your French PPL.

The difference is that the licence in #2 will NOT say on it, "issued on the basis of a foreign licence", as as such can be used to get yet another foreign licence, which you probably don't care about right now.

If you want to do it the easy was (#1 above) then CAR 421.26(8) applies. All you have to do, is get a Canadian category 3 medical (ie visit a doctor), then go a flight school, and write the PSTAR. Then get their Authorized Person to push the paper to get you issued a Cdn PPL and licence booklet. I do this all the time.

If you want to do it the full-blown way (#2 above) then CAR 421.26(9) applies. You will have to get a medical, do the written test, and do a flight test. A lot more work.

My advice is to to #1 first (medical, PSTAR, paperwork) then if you want to upgrade to #2 above, then do the written test and flight test for the Cdn PPL afterwards.

Clear as mud?

PS I am in Eastern Ontario. I am hoping that you can find a flight instructor / Authorized Person that knows how to do this. Hardest part is remembering the cheque for the Receiver General for Canada!

[Shiny Side Up]

If you want to do it the easy was (#1 above) then CAR 421.26(8) applies. All you have to do, is get a Canadian category 3 medical (ie visit a doctor), then go a flight school, and write the PSTAR. Then get their Authorized Person to push the paper to get you issued a Cdn PPL and licence booklet. I do this all the time.

Out of curiousity, by "pushing paper" you're not saying you have an ability to make this process move faster are you? If so, I want to know your secret to it. Our french friend here also should know that TC's working time is generally right to the 90 days, so from the day they get their class 3 medical done they got possibly 90 days to get their medical certificate in hand, then from visiting the AP another 90 days to get their license booklet. To add though, you missed when they come to visit the AP they will need a Canadian passport quality photo with them and assuming you haven't known them for more than 2 years, some other form of picture ID to verify the photo, passport or driver's license will suffice.

[Ferris]

Thank you both Hedley and Sunny side up.

Hedley thanks about my english, but I grew up in Eastern USA as a kid, so I have no merit
Can you tell me what the downside is of having the PPL with "issued on the basis of a foreign licence"? Apart from not being able to get another foreign licence like you said?
If it's a problem for getting a US licence or a Canadian CPL or a job later on it might be an issue for me.

I just looked at my logbook and I'm not sure my hours are really certified, maybe I should go to a TC regional office to check with them.

Thanks for your invaluable help!

Have a great week-end,

Ferris

[Shiny Side Up]

Can you tell me what the downside is of having the PPL with "issued on the basis of a foreign licence"?

AFAIK, you also can't use this to upgrade to a Canadian CPL or upgrade it with say a night rating or Instrument rating. I would have to check further into that, but I remember that problem with a US license conversion.

[Big Pistons Forever]

If you have not flown in 20 years, and have not flown in Canada, I would suggest the amount of training to get you to the level anybody is going to rent you an airplane will be equivalent to the PPL flight test standard so you might as well just do the flight test and get a full Canadian PPL.

[Hedley]

you also can't use this to upgrade to a Canadian CPL or upgrade it with say a night rating or Instrument rating

Not sure I agree with that. An american pilot that I helped get his Canuck PPL with the "issued on the basis of" notation, was able to get endorsements and ratings on it. And, I don't see why he couldn't go on to get a self-standing Cdn CPL, if he did the tests for it, just like any other PPL holder. See CAR 421.30

I would suggest the amount of training

Remember at the start of this, I mentioned that there is the paper world, and there is the real world, and I was going to address the paper world.

The level of skill that anyone has is only very loosely coupled, at best, to the pilot licences and ratings that they possess. Some of the finest pilots I know, don't have any paper. One of the worst pilots I know, has an ATPL.

Please don't confuse the paper world, with the real world. If you do, you are in for a world of hurt, sooner or later.

This thread is not about stick & rudder skills. Lord knows I rant on endlessly about that. It's about pushing paper.

[Ferris]

Thanks for your thoughts.
Having not flown for 20 years, and although my first 5 hours here have been very encouraging, my intentions from the beginning had been to start all over, I have no problem with that.
But if I go CPL, which is my will, it would be great if I could count in the 75 hours I have already flown.
I won't take the PPL if I'm not absolutely sure I have the right knowledge and experience, I believe in progression!
When Im ready, I'll go for the PPL and then the CPL.
As they say in France, "chaque chose en son temps" (do things in the right order and the right time)

Ferris

[Shiny Side Up]

you also can't use this to upgrade to a Canadian CPL or upgrade it with say a night rating or Instrument rating

Not sure I agree with that. An american pilot that I helped get his Canuck PPL with the "issued on the basis of" notation, was able to get endorsements and ratings on it. And, I don't see why he couldn't go on to get a self-standing Cdn CPL, if he did the tests for it, just like any other PPL holder. See CAR 421.30

Didn't say that was my interpretation of the rules, that was someone in licensing at TC. [shrug]

[Hedley]

Weird. CAR 421.19(8)(c) explicitly states a Cdn PPL issued on the basis of a foreign licence can be upgraded to a normal PPL by writing the written and flying the flight test. Pretty clearly, Transport doesn't intend it to be a dead end.

Different rules in different regions, I guess. An american pilot I know with a Cdn PPL issued on the basis of his FAA COMM certificate got a multi-engine endorsement, and now flies C-reg multi-engine aircraft in Canada with it.

[Shiny Side Up]

Weird. CAR 421.19(8)(c) explicitly states a Cdn PPL issued on the basis of a foreign licence can be upgraded to a normal PPL by writing the written and flying the flight test. Pretty clearly, Transport doesn't intend it to be a dead end.

With you there, maybe we're still talking about the same thing. The interpretation they had was that one couldn't skip the step of writing the written and doing the flight test if one wanted to upgrade their PPL privilidges. The person in question couldn't, with their Cdn PPL isued on the basis of a foreign one go directly to tacking on an IFR rating, the hope being since this person already qualified (being an US IFR rating holder) that they could upgrade by simply writing the IFR written and do an IFR ride.