Speed Doesn't Kill, Bad Drivers Do

[Shiny Side Up]

This has lead to a culture where it is assumed that only alcool and speed kill, because these offenses are the most ticketed, and measured.

In regards to the statistics, alchohol is the largest factor contributing to accidents not tickets. If one was to go by just what was ticketed, then speeding would indeed appear to be the largest offender and alchohol would seem like a rare occurance. Police resources are often overwhelmingly spent on catching speeders and its speeders of course who pay when it comes quota time (Its terribly obvious when suddenly the roads are crawling with cops the closer one gets to the end of the month, despite that some police departments deny that the quotas exist) The large ammount of accidents that are alchohol related are indicative that the police often aren't catching the ones they should be. Statistically your chances are greater to be in a major airline accident per mile travelled than to get caught DUI.

[bandaid]

Someone mentioned young drivers. Why in god names, would any caring parent buy there 16 year old a car like a mustang 5.0? Happens here all the time. I don't get it.
And the saddest of the sad. A fatality where the cause is a drunk driver. We have lowered the max ETOH levels here in B.C. to .06. That has effectively closed a large number of bars and restaurants as law abiding citizens aren't willing to chance having a beer or a glass of wine with supper then jump in the car. I'm all for lowering the tolerances on ETOH levels but lets be honest, you could lower the levels to 0.00 and those that drink and drive will continue to do it. Just a couple of days ago a man in his early 40's with a suspended license for DUI hit and killed (I believe it was) 2 people. His blood ETOH levels were twice the legal limit. This is not an isolated incident.
A couple of law changes here in B.C. have changed the way speeders and drinkers are punished. Car impounding and fines that are incredibly expensive. This is relatively new. It will be interesting to see after some time has past if there is a positive impact.
I fully support these initiatives. I wish I could let some of you into my memory banks to see what I have seen over the years. I think then you could understand my comments more.

[Shiny Side Up]

At one time I used to moonlight as a tow truck driver, so I can appreciate what you've seen. Some scenes really defy description and the physics of high speed impacts is nothing short of inconcievable.

[Rowdy]

The drunks and the erratic/idiotic drivers will continue onward until there is a drastic change in the way people gain their licences and MAINTAIN THEM! Dont punish the guy doing 10k over on the trans can... but destroy the retard who's SUSPENDED and twice the legal limit. etc.

Impounding vehicles wont change shit, nor will upping ticket costs. The changes to the ETOH has done nothing but cause strife for the bar/restaurant owners. The roads are no safer with these measure, they are simply a tax grab.

Change the way we licence, and you'll see changes in accident rates. This is a foundation problem.. not solved by reactionary measures..

[bandaid]

The drunks and the erratic/idiotic drivers will continue onward until there is a drastic change in the way people gain their licences and MAINTAIN THEM! Dont punish the guy doing 10k over on the trans can... but destroy the retard who's SUSPENDED and twice the legal limit. etc.

Impounding vehicles wont change shit, nor will upping ticket costs. The changes to the ETOH has done nothing but cause strife for the bar/restaurant owners. The roads are no safer with these measure, they are simply a tax grab.

Change the way we licence, and you'll see changes in accident rates. This is a foundation problem.. not solved by reactionary measures..

I don't think we are far off on our opinions Rowdy. I agreed that the .06 isn't doing anything but putting a hardship on bars and restaurant owners. Those that obey the laws are avoiding even the slight possibility that they will be over the new limits. Those that don't couldn't give a rats ass what the limit is.
As for 10km over the speed limit, I am guilty of that as are all posters on here and I am comfortable saying this. You go with the flow of traffic and if that means that we are going a couple k over the limit then I don't think it is a problem, you are not a hazard doing this providing you are with the flow of traffic. It's the guy that wants to go faster, weaving in and out of traffic, that is the problem. I also think that person or persons that decide that 10 km under is where they are comfortable and adding to travellers frustration are a hazard, they should be delt with too in my opinion.
I will wait to see the stats on traffic fatalities to comment on whether the fines and impoundments are working. Right now I am unsure and a bit skeptical, but time will tell.
I think that those who have lost loved ones will agree that an upward trend is unacceptable and though what you suggest as a tax grab may be just that, I am hoping not and that it is a step in the right direction.

[iflyforpie]

I read the police report in the local rag every Friday and lots of the citations now are for already prohibited drivers who are driving without a license. At least one or two a week in an area with 4000 people.

[Beefitarian]

I bet 2 months in jail would cause a pretty sharp decline in that crime. Maybe the choice between that and a $10 000 fine.

"Duh, my license is suspended but I need to go to work. Screw it, I'm not paying for a cab I'm driving."
Day law is changed.
"10Gs? Uh... hello yellow cab? I need a ride to work."

[Beefitarian]

In fact let's be typically lenient Canadian about the whole thing and make that the penalty for a second offense.

[The Old Fogducker]

Bandaid .... I generally support your position, except for the concern for the poor bar owners that have to close their doors because people are intimidated into not drinking and driving.

As far as I'm concerned, cops should be sitting on the street outside every bar in town breathalizing anyone that comes out of the establishment and gets into a car behind the wheel. I was put out of work for 3 months by a drunken scum who blew .26 hitting me from behind while sitting at a red light, so every piss-tank that's caught driving should be thrown in jail for a decade at the minimum.

The funny part ... some will view you relating your experiences at accident scenes as being nothing but "Fear mongering."

That's a term I get a kick out of these days ... describe a global security threat of a madman with nukes, and you're "guilty" of Fear Mongering. Talk about taking actions in the event of an engine failure, and the training organization is Fear Mongering.

I think its hilarious the term has become a popular one used by the ignorant and unworldly to justify sticking their head back into the sand rather than consider the ramifications, asssess the risk, and arrive at a mitigation strategy.

The Old (where's the bomb shelter) Fogducker

[bandaid]

I hear ya ODF, we had to quit a program in the high schools called the Rocky Horror Grad Show because the pictures and effents were upsetting the kids, Duh, that's what it was ment to do.
I also hear you about the drinking drivers but there is quite a difference between a beer with a meal and blowing .26. When the bars were jumping at least police knew where to sit but now the drunks are drinking in homes and then hitting the road that courtesy of both the tightened impaired laws and the Hated Sales Tax. Stiffer penalties don't seem to matter to these guys, a lot of them are in a freefall in there lives anyhow, but that is a whole different subject. These people usually think they are the victims.

[. ._]

As far as I'm concerned, cops should be sitting on the street outside every bar in town breathalizing anyone that comes out of the establishment and gets into a car behind the wheel.

Good idea, IMHO. But don't throw 'em in jail, put them in a cab BEFORE they get behind the wheel. Court costs are pretty high for the taxpayer and if the guy who gets busted loses his license then it could mean he loses his job and goes on welly-fare.

Remember people- for all of the money it costs you when you get busted drinking and driving (fine, higher insurance, driving school, in-car breathalizer, lost job opportunities because of criminal record), you can buy a LOT of beer and cab fare.

-is(hugs not drugs)tp

[burhead1]

[iflyforpie]

[The Old Fogducker]

ISTP ... nope, don't let 'em collect welfare ... have their relatives or buddies support them once they've lost their job due to booze problems and no driver's licence. As far as I'm concerned, they can be begging in the street for a scrap of bread and get strained through the grill of a Mack truck ... then lay there rotting until some good Samaritan comes along to hose the stinking, bloated remains into the sewer drain.

Why should I the taxpayer pay for them to get a free ride home in a taxi to avoid responsibility for their actions? That's a real deterrent isn't it? I'm not out to rehabilitate them, nor save the court costs, nor help the bastard keep a job when he can't keep his snout out of a bottle and then make a decision to drive.

Stay at home and drink, go to the bar and drink then be driven home by a designated driver, drink and stay over night, have a whale of a time ... drink a full two-four and be a hero running around the party with a lamp shade on your head while wearing an ill-fitting thong followed by a good session of puking and dry heaves with everyone watching .... I could care less ... enjoy yourself to the max if that's your idea of a good time.

Just don't drink and get behind the wheel of a car and think that society owes you a break or any kind of treatment except punishment. Do it a second or third time, the punishment gets even more severe ... to the point of you will likely never be getting out of incarceration for the rest of your life. The place where you'll spend the remainder of your wasted life will make Devil's Island look like you've checked into the Walt Disney hotel "Atlantis" in the Bahamas. ..... "Oh, but gee whiz Foggie, the guy has an illness. You can't treat an illness by putting the patient in the crowbar hotel."

My answer .... "Too freaking bad. Drink and drive, you're for the high jump."

The Old Fogducker

[Expat]

Bandaid,

I lost my little sister of 11, when I was 12, and the driver who hit her, was a drunk taxi driver, speeding... At 3 in the afternoon...going to a wedding...
I relate to your posts, I see your points,... but in our genetation, we learned an lot about it. We learned to drive when we could. This .08 shit means nothing. It is just a legal limit...
I have seen people quite legally drunk drive much better than sober idiots...
I think I can too!!! If you fall for this legal limit, you do not understand much. Life is a lot more complicated...

You have seen dead bodies, and so did I.
I also drove a tow truck...

[Rockie]

I have seen people quite legally drunk drive much better than sober idiots...
I think I can too!!!

Hmmm.

How would you know that?

[. ._]

ISTP ... nope, don't let 'em collect welfare ... have their relatives or buddies support them once they've lost their job due to booze problems and no driver's licence.

Why should I the taxpayer pay for them to get a free ride home in a taxi to avoid responsibility for their actions?

The Old Fogducker

OK, if they don't collect welfare, they're breaking into your house to steal your cool radios to trade for dope money and when you shoot them dead, you do life in prison. Not a good scenario, IMHO.

Also, I never said the taxpayer should pay the way. The drunk should.

The other stuff you wrote? Just more great OFD stuff poking and prodding for the ratings from our resident running dog lackey of the military-industrial complex.

-istp

[bandaid]

Bandaid,

I lost my little sister of 11, when I was 12, and the driver who hit her, was a drunk taxi driver, speeding... At 3 in the afternoon...going to a wedding...
I relate to your posts, I see your points,... but in our genetation, we learned an lot about it. We learned to drive when we could. This .08 shit means nothing. It is just a legal limit...
I have seen people quite legally drunk drive much better than sober idiots...
I think I can too!!! If you fall for this legal limit, you do not understand much. Life is a lot more complicated...

You have seen dead bodies, and so did I.
I also drove a tow truck...

I don't think it is a matter of falling for anything. For me, and I would hope you, we have so much to lose. A job, possibly a marriage, a license and if I was ever to cause someones death due to my choice to drink and drive I would have an extremely hard time living with myself. I did some stupid things as a teenager that I lived through and I was lucky. A few years later I am a paramedic and I see the devastation that these accidents and incidents can cause and I am ashamed of my youth. I spent probably 13-14 years doing talks every year to the high schools organizing all the players to spend a day talking to the kids. I was president of the Traffic Advisory Council in Golden B.C. where we took on a project of putting a wreck on the side of highway 1 every long weekend which included a big billboard that told how many accidents we had and how many deaths, injury.... ect. 13 years in Golden, probably upwards of 20 highway deaths a year, yeah, I've seen dead bodies. Way too many.

[Rowdy]

Bandaid, I knew we'd be on somewhat similar levels with this. Figured you were tongue in cheek with the "anyone who speeds is reckless" comments. Keeping up with the flow of traffic or driving at 130 on the highway in the fast lane is perfectly fine. Weaving in and out of traffic and driving erratically at ANY speed is retarded right

The 'statistics' published are also skewed to prove any point the government agenices want.

I was involved with the CVFB, and watched this first hand. Forty members of the brigade, faster response times, better performance and a huge community involvement, plus 75 years of reliability and service.. only led to its demise at the hands of the firefighters union. Facts and figures were skewed to push for more career employees and bigger halls for them. The paid on call 'volunteers' were actually besting them by upwards of a minute and a half, from initial page to unit in service times. How this got lost is beyond me. Now instead of having 6 trucks (two engines, two tankers, a heavy rescue and a 4x4 'booster') in town with upto 40 members available.. we have 4 career firefighters on two trucks that they cant crew..(engine and tanker) . Doesnt quite make sense... but thats the conclusion they came to from their own derived numbers..

I think we've all seen our share of messes.. and I for one would like to see some changes that dont involve mosltly monetary gain for the gov. and not direct increases to safety on the roadways

[bandaid]

You don't want to get me started on fire departments. The IAFF is a hugh lobby group and are extemely adept at scare tactics to achieve an end result. But who wouldn't want a job with 2 BBQ's 2 sleep overs, get $70,000 a year and have a real job they can do on there days off to boost there income more?

[The Old Fogducker]

ISTP ... I'd solve the scumbag B&E problem in my usual way while he is trying to rip off my stereo ... (or worse still some of my Collins S Line equipment) ... a three round burst to the forehead.

As far as going to the slammer for that act of saving society the bother of supporting a piece of pond scum ... its time to change the laws and make it open season on drunk drivers in my never to be humble (or logical) opinion!

After roving bands of vigilantes have popped off a few thousand suspected drunk drivers at Neighbourhood Watch roadblocks, there wouldn't be very many bozos cruising around with alcohol on their breath now would there? The ones that were discovered and lynched (after a fair and transparent roadside trial) would certainly deserve it, because they would be the hardest of the hard core.

We could easily recruit some local "adventure seekers" that would enjoy cleaning up our little corner of the earth .... like these gys for example ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lj056ao6GE

And when some drunk rolls down the window and the reek of rotgut comes wafting out of the car, this would be the reaction of the community-minded citizens on patrol ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqomZQMZQCQ

The Old Fogducker

[. ._]

In the world you propose, yep, that would work. But we're not there yet.

Ever considered running for these guys?

http://www.libertarian.ca/

They're into that kind of thinking. Just an idea.

[bandaid]

ISTP ... I'd solve the scumbag B&E problem in my usual way while he is trying to rip off my stereo ... (or worse still some of my Collins S Line equipment) ... a three round burst to the forehead.

As far as going to the slammer for that act of saving society the bother of supporting a piece of pond scum ... its time to change the laws and make it open season on drunk drivers in my never to be humble (or logical) opinion!

After roving bands of vigilantes have popped off a few thousand suspected drunk drivers at Neighbourhood Watch roadblocks, there wouldn't be very many bozos cruising around with alcohol on their breath now would there? The ones that were discovered and lynched (after a fair and transparent roadside trial) would certainly deserve it, because they would be the hardest of the hard core.

We could easily recruit some local "adventure seekers" that would enjoy cleaning up our little corner of the earth .... like these gys for example ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lj056ao6GE

And when some drunk rolls down the window and the reek of rotgut comes wafting out of the car, this would be the reaction of the community-minded citizens on patrol ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqomZQMZQCQ

The Old Fogducker

I'm not going to say that you're full of @#$^ OFD but the next video cued up after each of your youtube links were of Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton farting, that says it all.

[The Old Fogducker]

Its those brown beans, black licorice, pickled eggs, perogies and sausage with beer .... bad combo on a Saturday night. LOL

I could build a methane collection station in my bedroom and make money while I sleep.

Oh ... and like George Soros is the money and main manipulator of the far-left segment of The Democratic Party in the US, I'm the money and doctrine guru behind the Libertarians in Canada.

OFD

[bandaid]

Its those brown beans, black licorice, pickled eggs, perogies and sausage with beer .... bad combo on a Saturday night. LOL

I could build a methane collection station in my bedroom and make money while I sleep.

Oh ... and like George Soros is the money and main manipulator of the far-left segment of The Democratic Party in the US, I'm the money and doctrine guru behind the Libertarians in Canada.

OFD