Conservatives to scrap the Long Gun Registry

[Rockie]

So is providing a DNA sample. Perhaps that is the next registry we need.

For some people here I don't disagree.

[Giveitago]

One particular activity that occupies a lot of police time is domestic disturbance calls. The gun registry is consulted each and every time because what it reveals changes the way the call is responded to. How many domestic calls have been prevented from spinning out of control because of the different response? Who knows? I do know that the police officers I know are glad it's there because it gives them knowledge they wouldn't normally have.

Cue the police state hysteria...

Registering is at most an inconvenience that people have no issue with when it comes to their cars. The outrage is childish.

Police Officers respond to every domestic call "assuming" that there are firearms present.... to do otherwise would be foolish. The LGR provides a false sense of security. No police officer worth his salt would rely on the information contained and lower the "risk level" based upon the LGR.

Registering cars, glad you brought that up.

Firearm - preople have to be licensed to purchase firearms. (don't confuse licensing and registration)
Cars - Anybody can buy a car - no licencing required.

Cars - Do not have to be registered. I can have a beater car sitting in my backyard, still running and never used. And it is totally legal.
Firearms - The LGR makes every person who is in possesion of a non-registered fiream a criminal. Whether or not that firearm is used or not. A "hand me down gun" willed from a father to son will make the son a criminal if it is not registered.

Cars. - A person is able to own / use his car (unregistered) anywhere they want on private land.
Firearms - see point 2.

Cars - If the registration on a car "runs out" the person that owns it does not become a criminal.

Cars - If a fellow in N.S has an accident in his registered car the media does not brand the entire car owning / using community as reckless and dangerous.
Firearms - If a fellow in N.S has an accident with a registered firewarm the media DOES brand the whole firearms community as reckless and dangerous.

Cars - Just because that fellow in N.S does register his car to use on the streets the public does not think that his actions will in any way cut down on the number of illegal car use activities like street racing or driving uninsured/unregistered cars in any other part of the country like downtown Toronto by criminals.

Firearms - People would have you believe that a farmer/hunter/enthusiast in N.S that registers his long gun will somehow cut down on the illigal use of firearms by punks/gangbangers/criminals in downton Toronto/Vancouver/Montreal.

[burhead1]

. A "hand me down gun" willed from a father to son will make the son a criminal if it is not registered.
.

Exactly and if you were to try to register that family owned gun now, they have the right to take it and say sorry about your luck.

[Hedley]

Rockie's position of demonizing Harper does not jibe with his limitless trust of the government with respect to citizen's rights. Very contradictory.

[Doc]

Methinks Harper will win a clear majority. The Canadian public just has to be fed up with these children running the country. At over 3M a pop for an election, of which we've had, what four?, in the last six years? Only complete morons, living in their parents basements, or under rocks on the Serengeti can still believe the gun registry has ANY influence on street gangs, or illegal importation of guns??
It's really time for the country NOT to be run by the GTA.

[mcrit]

For some people here I don't disagree.

Nobody is putting a gun to your head and making you hang out here.

[Beefitarian]

I'm old and don't socialize anymore but in the past I could probably have bought an illegal hand gun in a few hours. How long would it take me to get a legally registered one? Any guesses which one a bad guy is going to use?

[. ._]

The money saved by scrapping the gun registry could be used to subsidize the poor Albertan tarsands developers a little more.

This election has me thinking more than any other in the past.

-istp

[Beefitarian]

Have you ever seen the map for the potential leases up around Fort MacMurry? It's got a lot of "China" on there.

[. ._]

No offense, but I don't understand your post at all.

[Beefitarian]

Alberta is just where the tar sands are physically located. The Canadian government has allowed the leases for the mineral rights to be taken out by developers from elsewhere. China has more area set aside than everyone else combined.

[iflyforpie]

. A "hand me down gun" willed from a father to son will make the son a criminal if it is not registered.
.

Exactly and if you were to try to register that family owned gun now, they have the right to take it and say sorry about your luck.

I've got nearly a dozen unregistered long guns I inherited from my father--none of which will ever be put on a registry.

[Doc]

iflyforpie....I sent you a PM. I suggest you read it.
Cheers

[Beefitarian]

I was thinking of sending him one myself Doc.

[Rockie]

Nobody is putting a gun to your head and making you hang out here.

HaHa.

Police Officers respond to every domestic call "assuming" that there are firearms present.... to do otherwise would be foolish.

They might in the United States, but they don't here (certain neighborhoods notwithstanding). When a call comes for a domestic disturbance and the registry says there are guns in the house the police respond much differently. Anger and guns under one roof calls for different ROE as common sense would dictate. The registry is a tool for police to use, and they use it.

The LGR makes every person who is in possesion of a non-registered fiream a criminal.

Hysterical exaggeration.

If a fellow in N.S has an accident with a registered firewarm the media DOES brand the whole firearms community as reckless and dangerous.

You and Hedley should get together and comfort each other as you cower in fear against the leftist hordes.

People would have you believe that a farmer/hunter/enthusiast in N.S that registers his long gun will somehow cut down on the illigal use of firearms by punks/gangbangers/criminals in downton Toronto/Vancouver/Montreal.

See previous suggestion.

[JakeYYZ]

iFly, You have the right to remain silent.

[Rockie]

It's amazing how easily you guys get worked up about this.

"They can pry my gun out of my cold dead fingers"




Watch out Iflyforpie, the leftist stormtroopers are gonna come bust down your door and make you disappear now.

[Hedley]

stormtroopers are gonna come bust down your door

I really don't understand your position, Rockie. In one breath you claim that the PM is the devil incarnate - a monster capable of any horrible act imaginable - and the next breath you say you trust the government completely, to take care of your best interests (snort).

Totally contradictory positions. Which is it going to be?

[iflyforpie]

I'm not too worried as I am not currently in 'possession' of any unregistered firearms.

Just waiting for all of this gun registry crap to go away.

[Giveitago]

Rockie - Please understand I am NOT trying to be argumentative with you on this, I don't really expect to change your opinion on the matter but I do want to provide the facts on this issue. You can take them as partisan but the truth is, the actual information is non-partisan. It is after, only the truth. And the truth cannot be partisan.

Police Officers respond to every domestic call "assuming" that there are firearms present.... to do otherwise would be foolish.

They might in the United States, but they don't here (certain neighborhoods notwithstanding). When a call comes for a domestic disturbance and the registry says there are guns in the house the police respond much differently. Anger and guns under one roof calls for different ROE as common sense would dictate. The registry is a tool for police to use, and they use it.

Rank and file police members report that they do not find the registry useful. In approaching dangerous situations, the police must always assume there is a weapon. The long-gun registry does not contain information on a gun's location. The registry only contains descriptive information about the registered guns.

The Auditor General reported that the RCMP could not rely upon the registry in court on account of the large number of errors and omissions. New Zealand abandoned their long-gun registry in 1983 because of the high error rates.

The LGR makes every person who is in possesion of a non-registered fiream a criminal.

Hysterical exaggeration.

No Rockie - It's not an exageration at all. IT IS HOW THE LAW IS WRITTEN. Right now we enjoy an amnesty from the law only if we are in the process of registering an unregisterd non-restricted firearm. But the law says, if you are in possesion of an unregistered firearm - YOU ARE A CRIMINAL.

If a fellow in N.S has an accident with a registered firewarm the media DOES brand the whole firearms community as reckless and dangerous.

You and Hedley should get together and comfort each other as you cower in fear against the leftist hordes.

Rockie - this is the sad truth - believe it or not. There is a left of center media bias. The CBC is so biased it is becoming harder for anyone to dispute it. But you can disagree if you like, that is your choice.

People would have you believe that a farmer/hunter/enthusiast in N.S that registers his long gun will somehow cut down on the illigal use of firearms by punks/gangbangers/criminals in downton Toronto/Vancouver/Montreal.

See previous suggestion.

You have not done your homework on C-68 and the LGR. This is precisely the rational they use to justify the LGR.

Please do some real research on this issue. It will help you make an INFORMED choice instead of a partisan one.

Have a nice evening Rockie

Give

[Giveitago]

Here is a little more information on the LGR. It is a cut and paste. With the author listed. It was presented as part of testimony to the public safery committee.

By Gary Mauser

Myth: Access to a gun increases the risk of murder.

In reality, Canadian gun owners are less likely than other Canadians to commit murder. On average, between 1995 and 2007, there were approximately 11 people accused of murder every year who possessed a valid firearms licence or an FAC. The Firearms Centre reports that approximately two million firearms owners have a gun licence. In other words, less than one licensed firearm owner per 100,000 gun owners is accused of murder in any given year. The Canadian national murder rate is approximately two per 100,000 Canadian residents.

Myth: Rifles and shotguns are the weapons most likely to be used in domestic homicides.

The real problem is the murder of family members, not the means of killing. Focusing on murder weapons -- whether long guns, hand guns, or knives -- is a red herring. It is false to assume that if there had been no gun available in a particular incident there would have been no murder committed. Spousal murderers are opportunistic in that they use whatever is available. Every home has many ordinary objects, such as baseball bats, kitchen knives and rifles, which can be used for murder. In Canada, knives (31%) are slightly more likely to be used in domestic homicides than firearms (27%). Research shows that no country has ever been able to reduce murder rates, including domestic murders, by imposing tighter gun laws.

Myth: Spousal murders with guns have fallen threefold since the law passed, while spousal murders without guns have remained the same.

The truth is that spousal murders (with and without guns) have slowly been declining since the mid-1970s. This long-term decline has been driven by economic and demographic changes and began decades before the long-gun registry was supposedly complete in 2003. Female spousal murders averaged 1.2 per 100,000 spouses in the 1980s, slid to 0.8 during the 1990s, and have continued to decline since 2000. In 2009, 15 women were killed by their male spouses. Firearms (almost all illegally owned) are involved in 32% of murders in Canada. This has remained virtually unchanged since the 1980s.

Myth: The registry is an essential tool for police when taking preventative action and when enforcing prohibition orders to remove firearms from dangerous people.

Rank and file police members report that they do not find the registry useful. In approaching dangerous situations, the police must always assume there is a weapon. The long-gun registry does not contain information on a gun's location. The registry only contains descriptive information about the registered guns.

The Auditor General reported that the RCMP could not rely upon the registry in court on account of the large number of errors and omissions. New Zealand abandoned their long-gun registry in 1983 because of the high error rates.

Myth: The gun registry is consulted by police 10,000 times a day (or more) and provides important information.

Almost all of these inquiries are routinely generated by traffic stops or firearm sales and are not specifically requested. Over 97% of these inquiries involve licensing, not the long-gun registry.

To conclude, the long-gun registry has failed to protect Canadians from gun violence and diverts vital police resources away from more effective efforts. The Auditor General of Canada reported that the government had been unable to substantiate whether the long-gun registry had increased public safety or saved lives, which is surely the standard by which any success of this vastly expensive program should be measured.

The long-gun registry continues to cost Canadian taxpayers an estimated 20 million dollars each year. This money could be better spent on other more useful law enforcement measures, or be directed towards a number of other key priorities for Canadians such as health care, women’s shelters or suicide prevention programs.

This article is a summary of my testimony to the Public Safety Committee. It is available on SSRN, abstract_id=1599705.

[Shiny Side Up]

You missed out the worst part about C-68, the search and seizure section. Even if one does agree with the Gun registry, that bit is of concern for all Canadians.

[Giveitago]

You missed out the worst part about C-68, the search and seizure section. Even if one does agree with the Gun registry, that bit is of concern for all Canadians.

Well, I didn't exactly miss it. But I didn't want to bring one more thing into this discussion.

But you are right, search and seizure (without compensation) is an integral part of C-68. And that section doesn't apply only to firearms but to all personal property.

People that like to tout our "charter of rights and freedoms" always seem to miss the fact that Canadians right to "PROPERTY" is not enshrined. So we have no right to property. At any given time the government can confiscate and forfiet anything we think we "own". Bill C-68 specifically allows for this power.

But that in itself is almost worthy of a new thread.

Give

[. ._]

Alberta is just where the tar sands are physically located. The Canadian government has allowed the leases for the mineral rights to be taken out by developers from elsewhere. China has more area set aside than everyone else combined.

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know that.

[Hedley]

As to the effectiveness (and relevance) of the Billion-dollar Long Gun Registry ...

Anyone wanna make a bet how many hours it would take to buy an illegal pistol in Toronto?

If it wasn't such a tragic waste of the taxpayer's money, the above might actually be pretty funny. Sort of a Monty Python sketch. I can see John Cleese trying to explain how the cops harrassing a farmer in Sasketchewan about his 60 yr old .22 bolt action rifle is going to stop Jamaican gang members from possessing smuggled handguns in Toronto.

Sigh.

Because of it's obvious lack of political correctness, this post is doomed to be censored by hyper-sensitive moderators, but let's try anyways. Click on the following news story:

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2010/ ... 24096.html

So far this year, there have been 28 gun murders in Toronto.

Shockingly, 25 of the victims are black males.

It's also worth noting that only five of this year's gun killings have led to charges

The nauseating forces of political correctness, who try to blame the gun violence between young black males with absentee fathers in Toronto, on old white redneck farmers in Manitoba, are a complete joke.

This factual post gone in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...