Air Cadet Program = Hitler Youth?

[oldtimer]

I was an Air Cadet. 41 Squadron in Regina. In my last year as an Air Cadet, I got a flying scholarship. My parents did not have a pot to pee in nor a window to throw it out of and there was no way I could realise my life long (All 17 years of it) ambition to be a pilot. Now I can say is that I had a pilots licence for a year before I had a drivers licence.
It all started on June 29, 1959 when the late Jack Clake and I became airborne in Cessna 140, CF-HJM and ended on July 29, 2010 when I brought Metro C-FJKK back to Calgary to officially end my flying career. I retired with 51 years and about 24,000 hours, all started because the Air Cadets got it going. It was a good life.
But I had a father who was in the Air Force in WW2, I had uncles on both sides of our family that fought in WW2.
I was distuirbed by what Mr. Bury had to say but then I think back and realise there were thousands of brave men and women who took up arms duiring WW2 and fought and died to defend Mr. Bury's right to say what he had to say.
I do not for even a second believe one word he has to say but I do believe in his right to say it. That is what makes us free people in a free nation. It was people like my father and uncles that were willing to lay down their lives to defend that right and keep it that way. What distrurbs me the most is when people attempt to change our way of life. Canada was born of Christian principles and parlimentary law. We have French and English traditions but we are also recornasant of other faiths, BUT we still have civil laws and if you are going to live in this countrey, you will obey those laws. I just got an e-mail from a friend who agrees like I do that we will not ever, ever change or reword our national anthem simply because it has reference to God in it and the national anthem is sung in both the FRENCH AND ENGLISH language and those languages only.
And that is my rant for today. As an aside, I say I like very much Cadet Sgt. Eileen Carter's comments on her gang. I was one of them.

[all_ramped_up]

I too was an Air Cadet with 819 North Delta Squadron from 1994 to 2001 and don't regret a minute of it.

Even afterwards, I made sure to volunteer as a Ground School and Drill Instructor until I left the Province in 2005 just to give back to a program that did so much for me as a person.

That article really frosts my socks having spent what seemed like millions of hours outside in the cold doing Tag Days, Poppy Days, Bottle Drives and other fundraising activities or Community projects. It's actually kind of upsetting that there are people who view the program like that still.

That being said, it might be also a subtle hint to the local Squadrons to maybe increase their public profile within the community. If not to prove morons like that horribly wrong.

And no offense to the fellow that was a Scout Master, but I was in Beavers and Cubs as well... remember the old green caps and shorts? Look at the uniform now and you tell me who looks more like the Hitler Youth?

[invertedattitude]

I was a cadet from 13 to 18, spent every summer away, and it was the best thing I ever did in my life.

I credit every success in my life to the attitude the Air Cadets gave me.

I'll be personally sending this writer an FO letter shortly.

[Rowdy]

I have nothing but support for the cadet programs.

There are FAR too many individuals these days who are still misinformed about the programs. As evidenced by his blatantly ignorant write up.

I myself was never a member.. but I did spend 12 glorious years in the scouting world and loved every minute of it. I'm sure its much the same in the ways of garnering unique experience, learning solid values, ethics and life skills.

[esp803]

I was a cadet for almost 7 years, and to this day some of my fondest memories come from cadets. I was fortunate enough to go through both the gliding and power scholarships. Without these programs I would never have become a pilot. I find this article incredibly offensive, and will be writing a letter to the editor.

One of my favorite moments came last year (several years after finishing the cadet program). Myself and two others were in both glider and power together in Comox. Last year we were all flying commercially within about 100 miles of each other in northern Ontario. One of us on a 206 on wheels, one on floats and one in a Navajo. It is nice to hear a friend over the radio, and thanks to cadets that happens all the time.

E

[Heliian]

Mr. Bury, and I use the term Mr. loosely, is a complete waste of breathable air. I never was a cadet and even though i'm not a military type, I give my utmost respect to those kids as they one day will become our country's defenders. I can't beleive that someone would think that this program wastes taxpayers money, you need to look at the other 9999999 government funded programs that are actually a waste first bella.

Today's joke: I heard the was only one good thing to come out of saskatchewan.......the trans canada highway!

[challydriver]

If Mr. Bury is a reporter for the Star Phoenix he's a not very good one. His article has no research on the Cadet Program in Canada other than the fact he went to a farmer's market and something happened to him that he didn't like. At best, it's very poor reporting.

Thank God so many of the finest people the country ever produced gave everything in conflicts so Mr. Bury could share his opinion with us. I wonder if he'd be willing to step up to the plate if something threatened his ability for his right to free speech.

This is just shows again again, "if you keep you mouth closed people may think you're an idiot but when you open it you can easily confirm to you are one..."

As for Air Cadets:

692 Air Canada Squadron
Basic @ Penhold, AB 1981
Air Studies @ Rivers, MB 1982
Gliding @ Princeton, BC 1983
Power @ Victoria, BC 1985
Gliding Instructor, Comox, BC 1986

I have nothing but good things to say about what Air Cadets did for me. At the very least I didn't have time get in to trouble in my teens because I was too busy flying!

[Dash-Ate]

Fodrucker said: written by a Mr. John Bury who would seem to have an excellent future as a human shield.


Ahh, threatening death because someone disagrees with you. Are you a local jihadist? I think so.
You see, there is no us and them. We are all the same everywhere it the world.
You'd like to see him dead, you said because he does not share your belief system. This is all about beliefs in your head. Yours are so narrow that anyone who does not have you exact beliefs is a threat to you. What's stopping you from acting out your words, are you a coward?

If not, then stop threatening people.
You are playing with fire.

Never forget: WAR is the most profitable business on earth. Period. The war to end to end all wars? I don't think so. Business is too good. 100 years later we are still at it

[flap10]

Well I'm stuck for words. Comparing cadets to Hitler youth. Both my kids have gone through the Air Cadet program and I honestly feel that what they learned in cadets helped make them such wounderful adults that they are today.

I've been a civilian instructor for the last 9 years and I enjoy every minute of it. I've seen kids join afraid of their own shadow and a couple of years later, as a leader and a public speaker with alot of self confidence and ready to face the world.

What I do is prepare the cadets for an exam that is part of the application process for the glider/power pilots licence. This exam along with an interview, their school marks and their cadet performance will determine if the will be learning to fly in the summer. What ever course the cadet applies for, they have to work for. I have never seen a cadet quit because they never got the course they apply for. What I saw is a young person stick it out for another year and try harder at cadets and at school to better their chances the next time around.

I think that who ever is against the cadet program in general, is not informed enough and doesn't understand what happens there. Maybe they should attend a regular cadet night and see what goes on.

Thats my 2 cents worth.

[Old Dog Flying]

I was a Cadet in 13 Sqn Windsor, Ont for 4 years, '49-'53, and like Old Timer, I could never have gotten started in aviation without the Cadet program because I was in the same situation. I won a scholarship, 17 hours but no civilian sponsors meant that I had to work damned hard to get my PPL. Jim Pelkie, manager of WFC gave me a job and I worked evenings and weakends at the club to pay for my additional 13 hours to PPL. Of the others from my Sqn who were in the same boat, I was the only one to finish to PPL.

I joined the RCAF and because of my cadet training, was able to progress from the bottom of the enlisted ranks to Captain in charge of the busiest control tower in the country, YMJ. (1976)

When I moved to the west coast I worked as Chief Ground School instructor at 746 Cloverdale Sqn ans am proud to say my kids came out on top in both the gliding and power scholarship programs. It was a very gratifying time and I continue like OF and OT to give support to the kids who will in the future be our military leaders.

Now 60 years later I am still flying and love it..and it was all make possibly to the best "gang" in the world.

Barney

[trey kule]

If this will help

citydesk@thestarphoenix.com

I am reaching out to all AvCanada members who find Mr. Bury's remarks offensive to please send an email to the above.

I understand the limitations put on serving members of the forces with regard to sending an email, but any retirees would be more than welcomed. There were also some names of previous cadets posted.. Ray Hnatyshyn was Govenor general, and MLA, and a Saskatchewan boy with a name that can be easily pronounced by anyone from Saskatoon.
And known by virtually anyone over the age of 30

Thanks in advance for any support. Perhaps the Star Phoenix will see fit to offer a retraction

[OceansEdge]

The whole cadet thing isn't a terrible idea in my opinion. That being said, I think spending the number of unnecessary tax dollars that could be better used elsewhere needs to change. I would rather see taxes being given to Scouts Canada than to the various cadet programs.

You claim you have no objection to Air Cadets, just the money spent on them - but you want that money given to Scouts instead......

Honestly! Both are excellent programmes, both give kids a chance to do something productive, useful, appropriate, and social with their time in a structured environment.
Both are pitifully underfunded and I'd support any and all initiatives to increase funding to them.
I also give whatever I can to them at any and all opportunities to do so.

What is it in this country that we are soooooooooooo willing to invest in infrastructure, buildings, roads, mining, in THINGS, but we seem so woefully unwilling to invest in our greatest resource - people? Specifically the youth that are gonna be taking care of you and me in our old age.

As for Mr Bury - he is obviously poorly educated in the history of our Canadian Military, and the important role they play around the world. In peacekeeping, in disaster relief, in saving lives not taking them. War is such a small element of our military. I know a young man now in officer training, who started out in the army cadets 7 years ago with the idea of becoming a modern day 'knight', that's never changed, and his training both as a cadet and now as an officer reinforced it. He is now well on his way to is ultimate goal of being a member of DART.

Create great things and all you have is a thing, create great people and they will create a great universe.

Vicky Baker
Air Cadets Squadron 693 Cape Breton
1978-1982

Trey Kule: done

[SuperchargedRS]

How does this moron go from the air cadets to Libya and F35s?? I guess we are doing air attack fam flights now?

Down here we have the civil air patrol and I've seen what it does for youth, same thing with the cadets, in the end of the day instilling these values into our future leaders will SAVE tax payer dollars.

[SAR_YQQ]

That article really frosts my socks having spent what seemed like millions of hours outside in the cold doing Tag Days, Poppy Days, Bottle Drives and other fundraising activities or Community projects.

Funding for Cadets is a tricky economical feat. Tag days, Poppy drives etc is a source of monies for that specific squadron/unit - it does not pay for staff, uniforms or camp. DND, through the CF, pays for all CIC wages and funds the entire camp experience. The flying scholarship program is funded 100% by DND - continuation flying done in the off-season is funded by the League and the individual squadron.

I was an Air Cadet, you can add me to that list.

[Moose47]

Dash-Ate, it's good to know that we can not rely on you to help defend this country if the situation ever arises to do so. I bet you got all your hiding places marked on your GPS!

[the goal is soul]

I was a part of something much bigger than myself. I wasn’t necessarily taught respect or discipline, but I learned it for myself and what it meant to me. I had the opportunity to develop, and to develop others from the spectrum of social and cultural backgrounds that make up our neighborhoods. I earned those opportunities, and as a prairie kid, it took me all across the country by the time I was 18...a pretty formative education in what it means to be Canadian.

Who am I now as a man has a lot to do with the experiences I had then.

Whether you gave back to the cadet program directly, joined the military and served in uniform, or contributed in your community or the organizations in it, the investment by the government in the cadet programs pays this country back ten times over. It’s humble, long-term investment though.

[Moose47]

Here's my letter to the City Desk of the Saskatoon Star Phoenx.

Sir

I take great issue with the story pertaining to the Air Cadets published recently in your newspaper.

I am a former Air Cadet and have proudly served with the Canadian and U. S. military. What is the writer's real issue with cadets and how did it transition from them to Libya? Is your writer a former fighter pilot? If not, then tell me how he can say with any certainty that the F-35 is a waste of money? If not the F-35, then what does Mr. Bury propose we use to protect our domestic airspace?

There is quite a list of former air cadets who have gone on to become prominent members of Canadian society. By supporting Air Cadets and other cadet organizations, we are investing in the future of Canada, ensuring unimaginable dividends in return for so little.

Sincerely,
Chris Charland

[Expat]

I was not lucky enough to join the Cadet movement, because there were none where I grew up.
One of my first secondary duties, as a young Lieutenant, was Senior Navy Cadet Liaison Officer, at CFB Montreal, with 18 corps to oversee. Almost every week, I travelled to visit cadet corps. I was always very impressed to see what they were doing, with so little resources. They were fundraising on week ends in shopping malls, selling various products,...I remember one where the office was a broom closet in a polyvalente high school!
And once a week, they had serious training, parades,classes.
Only the best got admitted to summer camps, and it was nice to see how they competed to get these slots. DND provides very little funding, in comparison with other projects.
And because the cadet movement has such an impact, on so many people, it ought to stay, and anyone who mentions that it is expensive should take a look at the books. One day in Af costs more than one year of support for the cadets...

[beaverbob]

My Air Cadet experience in a couple thousand words.

Wings parade at end of July 1968. First Solo Plane CF-WFI.jpg (220.2 KiB) Viewed 1914 times

[Siddley Hawker]

Geez Foggy, saw the title of this thread an I thought you'd gone all bin Layton on us.

[The Old Fogducker]

Jeeze man .... you're getting almost as funny as Dash Ate .... he writes some of the funniest stuff I've seen on here in years.

Now Siddley, you're giving him a run for his money, but 180 degrees out of phase! A regular Stephen Leacock you are.

Oh ... you should check out my Facebook rant against some misguided PETA member who is unarmed in a verbal joust with The Old Fogducker .... some of my best work.

I've crafted my Letter To The Editor and sent it away regarding the nominee for the "Mr Human Shield 2011 Award."

OFD

[akoch]

Well, it is not a secret that many Canadians disapprove the current foreign policy and the Canadian involvement in Libya, Afghanistan etc. And the society tends to polarize on these subjects. The attack on the Cadets is just a childish reflection/consequence of this deeper trend. Keep in mind that in racist Germany the majority believed in "their superior and right way" just as much, and same majority was actively attacking anyone risking to raise their voice. It is painful to see our pilots involved in these wars. They should be flying home, defending this country. Not killing people overseas.

[Siddley Hawker]

Knew you'd see the humour there Foggy. I'll check out the FB page.

[Geo]

As far as return on investment, a buck spent on cadets, scouts or the like in 2011 is better than the 10 spent on police, court or rehab services for many of their peers a few years down the line.

Hear Hear! (+10)

I was both a Scout and an Air Cadet. Personally I preferred the Scouts...but that was a matter of taste. Both programs are worthy of our support, and as noted, both are a great investment in youth.

g

[just curious]

For what it's worth, here was my letter to the editor:

Hi,

I suppose for every journalist, between the time they start on a paper like the Inuvik Drum, to the time they retire as the crustiest curmudgeon on the staff of the Globe, an article they write underscores the need to research a topic before they hit 'send'.

Had Mr Bury troubled to research the Air Cadets, in the week between his visit to the market, and his article submission he might have been able to toss a couple of facts into his argument. I understand the the polarizing aspect of war tends to overshadow the idea of research.

Unless he is in his 70's the Air Cadets predate him. At least since the Cold War, the military emphasis of the Cadets has considerably faded. While there is a fair percentage of people in the Forces who started with the cadets, the majority did not. Most of them tend to end up employed, and generally faceless in society. A direct link between fifteen year old kids at a market, and Libya is tenuous at best. Most of those kids are there to learn to fly,with a fair percentage unable to afford it any other way. The military aspect of their training is more in the nature of how to wear freshly laundered and pressed clothing than how to "shock and awe" anything. Unless you consider the effect on their parents when they begin to take an interest in life.

As it happens, I was one of those steely-eyed 13 year old killers that Mr Bury decries. Like most of my peers, I didn't end up in the military. Unlike many of them, I ended up flying across the North of Canada.A considerable amount of my flying was spent flying kids to the hospitals, jails,and occaisionally mortuaries of southern Canada. I dare say many of the kids I flew around might have been better served by involvement in the Air Cadets.

I suppose that Chris Hadfield, Ray Hnatyschyn, and Rick Mercer were lucky enough to have escaped the Air Cadets unscathed.

I'm sorry that these kids ruined Mr Bury's weekend. They could, I suppose, have used the time to steal the stereo out of his car.

Hope his next article contains a bit more balance.

Yours,