When renting an aircraft what is most important to you?

[Shiny Side Up]

Rentals really make virtually NO money,

The only reason we still do it is because we make money on it. If skidoo's plan was to start a rental operation, this would be possible if done right, his location really being the prime thing that would govern profit. I know I'm the odd man out, but I've never understood why aviation alone amongst private enterprises chooses to operate on such a poor business plan in general. There for some reason is a big impetus to keep prices down at the behest of the customer despite the fact that the market will sustain a higher price. Either way, not really the point of this thread, and I've beaten on that drum enough around here. Carry on.

[MichaelP]

Rentals really make virtually NO money

I agree.
I reckon the cost of flying in the Lower Mainland needs to rise $20 - $25 an hour for anyone to recover the cost of initial purchase, maintenance, and ultimate replacement of an aircraft.

We rent our aircraft out at the absolute minimum we can charge without losing excessive amounts of money.
A simple problem with a transponder can wipe out all 'profit' for the past ten or twenty hours of rental...

I remember one outfit here removing their transponders during the winter...

You get what you pay for and here in Canada you can find the crappiest aeroplanes in the World. Old radios, corrosion, poor maintenance, but cheap!

We compete with the USA, but we cannot compete with the USA.
They have lower costs all around while being a population of pilots with higher motivation is seems..

I do not know what the answer is... We are all getting poorer as time goes by and whereas the cost of living continues to rise the cost of flying and the residual money that we make is not.
There has been no pay rise for most people involved in this business for the past 15 years.

Some renters seem to be the sort of people who would take food from a starving person and money out of the beggar's cup.

[trey kule]

Was that a shot over the bow?

Probably. In my opinion, currency is a critical issue. As far as "professional" pilots, like SSU, I have checked out many many pilots over the years for a group insurance program..The type of license has very little bearing on the ability of the pilot for simple renals. In fact, it almost seems to be an inverse. The pilots with 1000 hours as FO's in a turbine who want to rent to get the hours for their "Ehs!" sometimes have terrible basic flying skills and believe because they are pros and flying a medium weight machine, a simple plane like a bonanza is almost beneath them. Some really terrible pilots, and impossible to correct their bad habits as they know everything. On the other hand I have seen some farmers who have had their A/c stowed away all winter and come spring they are on the books for a week a two ahead, attending seminars to catch up on the latest reg changes, and look at a currency check as a way to make certain their skills are properly evaluated and brought up to speed.Who would you rather rent to?

And yes, this is a shot across the bow. Check in your attitude at the hangar door, and let someone else determine if you really are as good as you think....that is what professional pilots do. they understand the importance of currency.

End of myoff topic rant.

[Beefitarian]

I know I need some nice tight rules. That way when I'm pushing the envelope so to speak I'm not really pushing the envelope. You wan't me to fly every 60 or 90 days and I wan't to be allowed to be a week late etc.

If there is no currency requirement there's sometimes a good chance I'm getting busy and not realizing just how long it's been. Sudenly it's been much too long and I'm not current at all. There's too much life out there getting in the way occasionally. That or worse, I can't afford to fly often enough to stay current.

[MichaelP]

We have a sixty day rule too but "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men".
In other words nothing is set in stone.
So I would not ask a pilot who I know has recency in aircraft elsewhere to do a full checkout or even a few circuits if I know that person is competent.

On the other hand I have every respect for a pilot who has the attitude to want to learn and to ensure his/her and the passenger's safety by being current. There's always something to learn even from a Class IV.

It used to grate me when every six months I would have to have a recheck in a club aircraft paying dual for a Class IV... One day I can fly the aeroplane and the next I couldn't.
But that place has so many rules they can't fly in the winter and their students have to migrate to schools that don't mind wind and rain.

I flew a club aircraft in Thailand, 3 months and you need a recheck. I picked a new instructor there and we had some fun... It was a beneficial flight.
Having checked out in the Cessna 150 I was current enough to be asked to please fly in the Extra 300L as the owner hadn't flown it for nine months...

[Shiny Side Up]

The pilots with 1000 hours as FO's in a turbine who want to rent to get the hours for their "Ehs!" sometimes have terrible basic flying skills and believe because they are pros and flying a medium weight machine, a simple plane like a bonanza is almost beneath them.

I wouldn't say that. Rarely have I turned anyone away because of a lack of skill. The worst thing I find is many just don't care. Like BPF said "treat it like a rental" is the modus operandi. Unfortunately I have a short black list of people I will not rent to and their skill is the least concern. All of the people on that list - which includes people of all qualification levels (and is a mercifully small list) - just can't play nice with respect to the rules we lay out. Simple rules largely designed to benefit all involved. I won't get on a rant about the types of transgressions, but lets just say the ammount of stress involved was not worth any possible profit.

So I would not ask a pilot who I know has recency in aircraft elsewhere to do a full checkout or even a few circuits if I know that person is competent.

Realistically, the only way you know that someone is competent is if you flew with them recently.

On the other hand I have every respect for a pilot who has the attitude to want to learn and to ensure his/her and the passenger's safety by being current. There's always something to learn even from a Class IV.

It used to grate me when every six months I would have to have a recheck in a club aircraft paying dual for a Class IV... One day I can fly the aeroplane and the next I couldn't.

You're contradicting yourself here. Personally if I hadn't seen someone else fly in the last six months, I'd want to see a proof of skill again, even if it was a small one. From experience there's no telling what a person's skill "fall off" is. There's some people I know who's skill deteriorates if they go a week without doing, and others who's skill is imperceptably less without it. One of the scariest flights I was ever on was with a pilot who I had previously thought of as very skilled from having flown with him a few times within a year. Turns out one of his skills that had atrophied (despite his claim of recency) was landing at night. Should I have bent my rental rules - which I'll admit I was tempted to at the time in question - I'm 100% certain he'd be dead right now.

[MichaelP]

At that time I flew the club's aircraft regularly and so I literally was allowed to fly one day and did, and not the next because of the six month rule.

I suppose I have more trust for my fellow pilots, it's the nature of me.
I tend to look at a person's qualifications, their recency, and how the person performed when I last flew with him/her.
On that I decide.

But I see some terrible things done by people and then I take action. Do not betray my trust.

I believe that the prime problems go back to original training. We all revert to our original training.
Lazy pilots who taxy out with the stick forward, and run up likewise, and those who slam and bang things, I don't want flying my aircraft.
It's all down to how the school or club rated discipline in the beginning.

I'm from a time when we made things last... As a youngster I knew I wouldn't get another pair of shoes for a long long time and when I did I was in for a bloody good hiding for wearing them out. I learned early on how to make things last.
If a renter looks after the aeroplane with care then the rental rate need not go up so much.
But if a renter treats things badly, he/she deserves to pay more, and everyone else pays more!

I've just this minute been asked by a pilot about flying a Katana, it's been 7 weeks 3 days since he flew one. But this guy has a fair amount of time in our aircraft, and has done a lot of training with this school recently so no problem.
Paramount is the fact that he has an excellent attitude.

Then again like SS Up I have met many pilots with experience and not the ability that should go with it!
We all have to use judgement.

[Shiny Side Up]

At that time I flew the club's aircraft regularly and so I literally was allowed to fly one day and did, and not the next because of the six month rule.

My appologies, I misread how you presented it. I have in the past seen some rental rules which were above and beyond what one would consider reasonable.

I tend to look at a person's qualifications, their recency,

Unfortunately I've learned that you can only trust those two items presented if you've had personal experience with said individual. Lord knows I've seen enough padded resumes and log books. Your last point

and how the person performed when I last flew with him/her.

Largely governs my decision. I do of course trust my people to also make the same well judged call. I do after all watch the watchmen.

[winds_in_flight_wtf]

My own thoughts on the matter: The best quote I have ever heard thus far in my career >


Experience says nothing about competence. If someone is taking my airplane, I do not care if you flew B52s 6 engines out with Vietcong grapple hooking up to your bloody airplane.... you are going for a small checkout. Your mouth is not a reliable source of information.

[burhead1]

Get one of these, they can fly through towers and keep going. You could rent that all day and not worry about checkouts.