Price of Gas...

[v6g]

Those fuel taxes intensifies the price-sensitivity (and hence competition) meaning that the underlying cost of gas in Canada is actually cheaper than it is in the US.

[dcabrown]

Here's one thing I dont get.

We're all willing to go out and spend $4 for a beer (355ml) or roughly $10/L, which is made from a renewable resource.

But a non-renewable resource like oil, which needs to:

a.) be found - harder to do these days (excl. Canadian oil sands obviously)
b.) extracted
c.) processed
d.) transported to refineries
e.) refined
f.) transported to retail stations

And we all cry bloody murder that the price is over a $1/L. And for something that allows us to be more productive (reach our jobs), heat our homes, cook our food. As much as I like beer, I'm significantly less productive after drinking a few litres.

Thats just another perspective to consider. $10/L for beer (renewable) or $1.40 for gasoline (finite resource which requires billions in infrastructure to develop, transport and sell).

Now what sounds reasonable to you guys...

[dcabrown]

What would you prefer... no consumption taxes, or a $10,000 bill next time you may be in the hospital...

If you have $10,000.00 and you are seriously ill go outside of Canada for treatment as you are quite likely to die waiting for treatment under Canada's socialistic health care system.

Canada is third world in their medical system...or maybe fourth world.

After having experienced hospitals and health care in Canada, Bahrain, Thailand, Japan, France and Switzerland, I regrettably agree with Cat. Here's one story from today's news.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/st ... ed384.html


Sadly, I would have to put Canada at the bottom of the list in terms of immediate access to MRI's, surgery, elective procedures. I have private health care and I pay when I use it. Every time I use the system, I get a bill that I either pay or my insurance pays. It works just fine.

When I see that a visit to emergency for a sore back costs about $300, I tend to try the heating pad, if you know what I mean. I think that if Canadians saw what the true cost is, they might not overload the system. But as long as people foolishly believe that it's free, expect the long waits at hospitals.

Quebec was considering an idea where each hospital visit would cost you $25, up to a certain maximum per year AND only if your income is below $30,000. The rationale was exactly as you have described, to have people think about the cost of their healthcare before they overload the ER's with minor headaches or whatever.

The idea was rejected after it became the source of hot debate in the province. People said it would discriminate against the very poor having access etc...

I'm not making judgment on whether I think the decision to not implement the (modest) fee was right or not - it was more symbolic than anything as it only raised a few hundred million or so, however, the issue of "paying" for healthcare in this country is a very touchy subject. I would argue it is probably the most significant political/social/ideological issue, we as Canadians will have to deal with and SOON.

The fact of the matter is boomers are living longer lives, and there are relatively fewer young people to support them. Additionally, unlike normal technology, healthcare does NOT always decline in price with innovation because the new methods and tools are used in healthcare, and the old (obsolete) methods are eliminated. That innovation comes at a price. (Healthcare costs increase at a rate of about 5-6%per year. Inflation is currently around 1.2%)

So as long as life expectancy keeps increasing and so long as the younger generation keeps having fewer and fewer kids, the system will continue to be imbalanced.

Something like 75% of the overall healthcare "burden" we place on the system occurs in the final 3 years of our life. If you keep pushing our life expectancy which we have been due to technology, then we are realizing a situation where the system has underpaid or underestimated the future costs of healthcare (similar situation to pensions).

Remember, when healthcare and pensions were setup, life expectancy was in the high 60's and people were expected to keep having 2.3kids to support the system in the future. Now life expectancy is over 80 and we're down to 1.1kids or thereabouts.

If we're not contributing via gas taxes, then what?

Also, some posters comment about healthcare in Canada being bad relative to other parts of the world. Fine.

But lets poll all the *RICH* pilots on Avcanada and see how many have 10's of thousands of dollars to go to the states or France for treatment (um, do you know what the tax rate in FRANCE is like???)....

[Navajo Flyer]

Just got back from the States. It is my understanding that is costs approx. $400/month for private health insurance. Income tax, in Florida, is set at 18%, mortage interest is tax deductable, gas is cheaper, clothing and the cost of living is considerably lower - you don't have to purchase bags at the grocery store, etc. When you add all this up - I would much prefer the private health care system. We have been waiting for more than a year to get an appopintment to see "specialist" for knee surgery. MRI took 8 months. If it was a WCB (read private health care) claim - MRI would have taken maybe a week to get.

[dcabrown]

Just got back from the States. It is my understanding that is costs approx. $400/month for private health insurance. Income tax, in Florida, is set at 18%, mortage interest is tax deductable, gas is cheaper, clothing and the cost of living is considerably lower - you don't have to purchase bags at the grocery store, etc. When you add all this up - I would much prefer the private health care system. We have been waiting for more than a year to get an appopintment to see "specialist" for knee surgery. MRI took 8 months. If it was a WCB (read private health care) claim - MRI would have taken maybe a week to get.

Although mortgage interest is tax deductible, the capital gains on your house are not in the U.S.

Public schools in the U.S. are lousy, and if you ever have to send your kids to a University, well then thats where your additional savings from low taxes comes in (the guys in our US office tell me at $5000/year tuition, Canadian Universities are "free")

AND, yeah your health insurance could be $400/mo with no pre-existing conditions and in good health. What happens after you have a major health issue of chronic health problems? Think a private insurer is going to cover you for anything less than a fortune??

The quality of healthcare in the US is not the issue. It is handsdown "better" than Canada. But accessibility is another story.

[Cat Driver]

Those are some bold statements; care to back them up with some actual studies supporting your claims? The lefties are out to get us aren't they! Damn Torontonians!

Last year they found a tumor on my wife's pancreas with an ultrasound on April 28.

She was put on the "urgent " list for further diagnosis and treatment.

She waited and suffered all spring and summer waiting for diagnosis and treatment and finally they started the first treatment for cancer on August 14/10 which was radiation.

She died in agony on Oct.01/10.

I hope none of you have to go through the utter shambles the health system is including the five day work week where if anything goes wrong the only way to get treated is go to emergency and wait in line behind the repeat drug users and wife beaters for hours.

Canada's health care is sub third world.

[MUSKEG]

Well Cat I would consider that a slam dunk. I am embarrassed that my country could not respond to your needs in a timely fashion. To compound the tragedy there are thousands of others out there who are experiencing what you did. All in the sake of equality. Condolences again.

[Posthumane]

if you ever have to send your kids to a University, well then thats where your additional savings from low taxes comes in (the guys in our US office tell me at $5000/year tuition, Canadian Universities are "free")

Since when are Canadian universities free? I seem to recall paying more than $5k/year tuition when I was attending one, years ago, and prices certainly haven't dropped since then. A friend of mine living in Virginia had way more options available to her for financial help when college hunting recently, and fees for in-state students were actually surprisingly low. Admittedly there are some which top $50k/year, but those are the schools that top the list of the world's "best" universities.

[fingersmac]

Since when are Canadian universities free? I seem to recall paying more than $5k/year tuition when I was attending one, years ago, and prices certainly haven't dropped since then. A friend of mine living in Virginia had way more options available to her for financial help when college hunting recently, and fees for in-state students were actually surprisingly low. Admittedly there are some which top $50k/year, but those are the schools that top the list of the world's "best" universities.

While not free, our universities are still relatively affordable for a quality education. Average cost for in-state students in the US is $7000. If you want to go to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Brown, etc then you're looking at $50K per year. In comparison, you can attend McGill, which ranks among the Ivy League as one of the best universities in the world, for a fraction of the cost. At about $6000 per year versus $50K! Even less if you're a resident of Quebec.