Small Town Airport

[Pirate Pilot]

Here's a subject to think about and comment......I have applied for and have a good chance of being appointed to be a member of our newly created airport commission. The commission would operate our little airport with a view towards expansion in all areas. Our small town (pop. 1200) in the interior of B.C. originally carved a 1200 ft. runway out of side of a mountain all with volunteer labour after the indian band would not renew our lease on the reserve airport. A few years later we got a gov't airport improvement grant and we now have a 3400 ft. 15/33 @ 2034 Ft. elev. nice paved runway with a reasonably large apron on the 15 (north end) of the strip. We have another 500 ft. of runway extension to the north rough prepped with the top 1-2 ft. of proper fill and pavement to go to complete. There are approx. 10 surveyed hanger site lots with 3 hangers up and a 4th (mine) just in the planning stages. The lease lots are $500. per year. There is lots of room available for more lots and/or aircraft parking. We have 100ll only available for sale. Our little "terminal" is an old office mobile with a phone for FSS and a pop machine. The washroom facilities are the portable bathrooms seen on construction sites. We have electricity but no water or sewer. The strip is day only VFR with M/F 5 miles 6000' Currently there are 7 aircraft that call this airport their home. The village council has just signed for a $35,000. "study" for a GPS approach.
There are no landing, parking, tie-down fees at all. I don't think we want that ever for private aircraft. During forest fire season lots of helicopter companies use or airport for refueling, light maintainance, crew changes, etc. The Buffalo SAR uses our airport as a practice area probably due to the low air traffic. We did get some income in the past from movie crews that used our airport. 2012, A-Team, etc. The guys that owned the hangers rented them out to the movie people. The village got the money for renting out the airport.
Where do we go from here? Do commerical helicopter companies pay landing fees at small airports? Do charter companies pay landing fees at small airports? Should we solicit a flying school for a satellite FTU? Try to attract an FBO? What do we want first? a) Water and Septic b) runway extension c) lighting d) GPS approach e) nicer terminal f) better fuel service 100ll and jet g) campsite for aircampers ?
The airport is about a 5 minute drive from our downtown core Having written all the above I will point out it is pretty nice just the way it is with no hassles whatsoever.

[teacher]

Jet fuel would allow you to sell the fuel to the fire helos rather than them brining their own which helps your bottom line. Depending on what type of traffic you get whether it be VFR mostly or corporate (for business or pleasure)/medivac a GPS approach might be handy and again, the jet fuel for sale wouldn't hurt this either.

[Truthteller]

Study what was done with Buttonville Airport in Toronto and do the opposite.

You're going about it the right way, look for ways to make money and keep afloat. Don't rely on government handouts because one day they may disappear and then you have to close the doors or re-develop the land.

[burhead1]

Study what was done with Buttonville Airport in Toronto and do the opposite.

You're going about it the right way, look for ways to make money and keep afloat. Don't rely on government handouts because one day they may disappear and then you have to close the doors or re-develop the land.

Nice your a great help, sucking the life out of prive pilots thread

[Truthteller]

Huh? You talking to me?

Study what was done with Buttonville Airport in Toronto and do the opposite.

You're going about it the right way, look for ways to make money and keep afloat. Don't rely on government handouts because one day they may disappear and then you have to close the doors or re-develop the land.

Nice your a great help, sucking the life out of prive pilots thread

[Expat]

I would go for lighting, even before a GPS approach.
Than...pancake breakfasts...

[SeptRepair]

What are the land leases like? The local airport near me are myopic. They will not grant land leases longer than 5 years. If a person is going to invest a hundred grand on a hanger they want security that they will not be put over the barrel in 5 years after they have built.

[xsbank]

Name of the town? Why is it a secret?

[bcrosby]

I think investing in a GPS approach, as well as being able to sell Jet-A is a place to spend money.

This will attract more traffic in the summer (especially having the ability to reful those helicopters).

Secondly, lights. This will then allow you to expand your operating hours to after dark. Which will be useful to keep those fire fighting helos using your airport at night too!

[alctel]

As someone else said, get a really good reputation for breakfast, or pies, or pancakes!

[Shiny Side Up]

Personally if I was going to spend money, I'd look at getting hooked into water and sewer and having some proper facilities installed. I know, doesn't sound as exciting as a GPS approach, but it will save you the money of whatever truck you have come for the porta patties. Are those donated or are you paying to rent them? I have a friend in the business and I know they ain't cheap. This has a two fold benefit in that now the airport is a bit more hospitable to the fairer sex - convincing the wife to spend some airplane time will be easier and people will be more inclined to visit for events. Having water on site also allows for more expansion later and is a boon for any events as well (where does the water for coffee come from?)

The water and septic also goes hand in hand with improving the terminal, though I wouldn't go all out, it seems what you have serves your needs well. Like I said, if you can install some good washrooms onto it, you're probably good to go.

Out of curiousity, what is the current maintenance arrangement for the airport? Is it done on a volunteer basis or does the village foot the bill, or is there an arrangement with the MD? The more facilities and perks you install the more maintenance cost are going to rise. I assume the airport's chief revenue comes from the leases and the fuel sales?

Where do we go from here? Do commerical helicopter companies pay landing fees at small airports? Do charter companies pay landing fees at small airports?

Don't even go into the area of landing fees unless you have a large enough operation to have a full time on site person. I wouldn't reccomend it either way. Companies will go elsewhere (unless your goal is to drive them away) or just ignore the bill. If you feel you want to extract some revenue from an operator, what I would negotiate is to have say a reserved spot for them to tie down or use, which they pay for. Helicopter companies are always looking for places they can store stuff on an adhoc basis.

Should we solicit a flying school for a satellite FTU? Try to attract an FBO?

To get either of these you really have to make a case for their business. Either way you'd be looking at improving the facilities as above first. Before considering this you should bring more airplanes into your airport. Where's the closest center to you?

Money-wise extending runways and adding approachs are big ticket items which is doesn't seem your airport has a requirement for at the current time - unless all seven of the home aircraft are IFR twins or are really looking to attract a bigger operator - who would then install their own facilities, but you'd probably be looking at giving some of the control of the airport up.

Seems like you've got a good thing going now, I'd be loathe to mess it up with big airport problems if you didn't have to. Grow it nice and slow, don't make the mistake of getting a land developer involved or you'll have a very suddenly aviation unfriendly strip and a whole load of headaches before you can say "hoochimamma".

[Go Guns]

A GPS approach would benefit medevacs the most, followed by lighting and a reliable source for a weather report and a runway surface condition. However they're not likely to need fuel unless your airport is really in the middle of nowhere (which I suspect it's not). I doubt there's any revenue in catering to the medevac traffic though so this info may not help you much.

Ya, go with the good breakfast. I always love flying to some place where I know I can get good food

[SAR_YQQ]

Ahh, Cache Creek (CAZ5). Nice little strip - ideal for para jumping and the circuit is fun to fly.

With its proximity to Kamloops - I don't see Jet Fuel as a big mover. Same goes for MEDEVAC missions - unless it is super critical, the ambulance can drive the road to CYKA.

Big issue I had with that strip was the town garbage dump being on the final approach to Rwy 15 - lots of birds.

[Pirate Pilot]

Thanks for all the comments so far. Its good to view people thoughts. Here are some answers to the questions and more info.
Airport is CAZ5 Cache Creek, B.C. sorry, is was no secret, just didn't think about it.
The leases are 10 year periods with renewals. The lots are about 80 ft. X 80 ft. so a regular light aircraft hanger would be fine but a larger hanger would need more land.
One of the situations we have is in fact the medavac question. Maybe someone out there can help. It has been stated by "someone" that our runway at 3400 ft. is just not quite long enough for the air ambulance. We need another 400 ft.? Something about the ratio of available runway to aircraft performance? It is interesting as we just went through a period of time here in our community that we had no doctor at all within 50 miles. Any serious accident or illness got a long ambulance ride into Kamloops. We now have 2 Drs. but our emergency ward is only open part time. It would be a great measure of comfort to know the air ambulance could come in.
The porta-potties have been there for years. Our local sewer-sucking service looks after them very occasionally. I don't think anyone knows where they came from or who payed for them. The village sends the plow truck up to scrape the apron and the runway but we get very little snow here so its not a big job.
The fuel tank and pump are owned by 2 friends of mine that will assumably be on this commission as well. They put the service in for their own use and it evolved into a retail service. They have priced the fuel very attractively in order to attract some air traffic. When all the smokes clears I don't believe they make any kind of serious money at the venture. We have some regular customers from Kamloops who fly over to fuel up. We sometimes run out of fuel however, because the tank capacity is not very large and in order to get any kind of competitive price we have to take a minimum amount. We are working on getting a proper cardlok kind of pump (it was supposed to happen last year) and a larger tank.
In the summer I leave my "airport car" parked by the shack (terminal) so visitors can come into town for lunch, etc. It does get used very occasionaly as most visitors have other arrangements already made.
We have one big pancake day every year. Our annual Mothers Day Fly-In. The Lions have their food wagon and it is their big annual deal where they make some money for the year.

[skymarc]

GPS approaches, Jet and 100LL cheap fuel with automated card lock, runway lights and 20 year land lease to build hangars will bring aircraft to your airport. With traffic and residents aircraft eventually an FBO or maintenance facility and flight school will come along. I would keep the fuel cheap and controlled by the airport comission and no landing or ramp fees.
For long term extending the runway to 5000' will bring jet traffic.

[ScudRunner]

I would try to attract some small air tour companies to use your airport and bring business/tourism money to your town. Having charter flights that use your airport is key to its growth and future, I don't believe that a tour/charter company would set up shop in Cache Creek this market its just too small. FBO's / Flight Schools I don't really see those happening anytime soon either again the market is just too small to sustain that kind of operation. So I would focus on getting people to use your airport, General Aviation is pretty simple have an annual pancake breakfast during the summer call up COPA. Perhaps a local or close by chapter will help out. Have a van to run people in and out of town during the day things like that, get it printed in the COPA newsletter and highlight fuel available and a lift into town oh and don't forget the syrup.

Many moons ago I flew for a company out of Pemberton that would fly tourist from Whistler on scenic flights and Day trips. Your town is close to tons of recreation white water rafting, fishing, hunting, horse back riding etc. Obviously you would know whats fun around your town and what brings people to your neck of the woods. The summer I flew out of YPS I used neighboring airports like Lilloet at least once a week. If I recall correctly we did make some trips out your way to drop off people for a day of White Water Rafting. All the flights where day VFR and would go 99% of the time in the summer, these flights just used a 172 and 207.

Linking up a lodge or rafting company with a small aviation tour company that would bring people out for a day trip could be a start. Other adventure companies such as ROAM have a need to get their guest in/out of YVR to/from the interior, adventure companies like ROAM use and need small chartered aircraft to get there guests around. Send an email let them know your airport is their and available, further to that ask the local hunting lodges and ranches if they use chartered aircraft to fly their guests in. Ask them to use your airport instead, Just a guess but its probably a cheaper alternative to YKA from YVR, its all about making $ sense to operators. Sure adventure companies could just use YKA but they like to keep them out of the cities to make them feel like they are in the middle of nowhere. Runway length would be an issue especially on a hot summer day.

Keep working away at getting the runway lengthened some one on here could tell you what a King Air would require and make that the goal for now. Weather in the summer is usually good so a GPS approach wouldn't be that critical however long term it would be necessary in attracting more charter flights heck you might get some bag run planes diverting their when the WX is down in YKA. Speaking of weather many small airports have websites that show there AWOS not critical but something to think about if your going to get a GPS approach.

Get a septic tank and water system put in and set up a small terminal nothing fancy a table and chairs with washrooms, find some Amish and put it up in a day. Im sure some volunteers that can swing a hammer could be rounded up and petition the Feds for some more funding and grants for a specific project.

[all_ramped_up]

interesting that they say 3,400' is too short considering Pangnirtung (YXP) is only 2,920' and King Airs go in there frequently and the First Air Hawker used to as well iirc. perhaps there's more to it?

[Go Guns]

Pang is @ sea level and most likely doesn't cope with summertime temperatures above 30C.

Still, I used to take the 350 in and out of Vernon. Sometimes on the hot summer days we would get restricted on the weight we could carry out but I don't think I ever ran into a situation where it couldn't be done. Might be worth a phone call to NT or Carson to find out what the numbers really are.

[alti2d]

King Air 100s and 200s would certainly have no problem with a 3400' strip at 2000' ASL, unless it was a hot summer day.

[winston]

Carson Air does Medevacs in and out of Nelson (3100') so 3400' should be fine, just might not see them in the Summer. PP if you have questions regarding facilitating Medevacs, go to the source and give Carson Air a call.

W

[Dash-Ate]

Buttonville threads was locked but here's CNF4 a small town airport!!



http://www.thepost.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3080291

Airport ‘could be full,’ says new manager
By Lisa Gervais, Lindsay Post Reporter
Updated 4 hours ago
KAWARTHA LAKES - On only his second day on the job, new Lindsay airport manager Derrick Nauss glances at a wind sock from inside his office and diagnoses that it needs to be greased because it isn't accurately reflecting today's wind.

Nauss will be spending 28 hours a week working from this office, which oversees the airport.

He has come from a job as airport manager at South River - Sundridge, near North Bay for nearly two years.

He says they had two grass landing strips and no lights so this is a big step up.

"I've got a paved runway, lights and a board that seems to be committed."

He uses a sports analogy, saying he's come out of the bush leagues and into the minors.

Nauss will be an important cog in big plans for Lindsay airport.

He said the airport cannot physically expand, because it is hemmed in by development and Hwy. 35, however, much can happen in the current confines.

He notes that Buttonville Airport will soon close and recreational flyers will be looking for a place to keep their planes. In the same mode, he said recreational flyers will likely be pushed out when Oshawa and Peterborough airports expand. He said the logical place for them to come is Lindsay.

"This could be full," he says.

That growth would require additional hangars. However, he believes Lindsay airport could also attract other businesses. Already, the city is looking for a new air school. There is a thriving restaurant on site and a flying club was recently formed. The city will also soon have the capacity to deliver regular aviation and jet fuel.


A pilot himself, Nauss was born in Nova Scotia and he and his wife live in Barrie but he is looking for a place to rent for his work days.

-lgervais@thepost.ca

[The Mole]

Jet A and a heli-pad. With more than one landing spot in reach of the hose.

[oldncold]

Take a good look at how grand forks b.c. did it czgf

they worked really hard and got a ifr approach and lights in there.

It is critical to have lighted and gps approved approaches for a airport in the 'rocks' to grow or be come self sustainable.

nelson b.c. cznl has had a few well run vfr operations but the achillies heel there has always been lack of a ifr apporach and lighting .

a) gps approach/ b) jet a 1 in an eviro tank with self credit card pumping system/ c) arcal to medium intensity in that order . the gps will attract more traffic, the gas sales will help offset the cost of the lighting and up keep.

As a final note set aside 2 lots large enough for a 10000 sq ft hangar 100/100 av biz and a corporate size fbo at an attractive lease rate and build the private hangars one at time as demand warrants according to a master plan, the hangar door width to accomodate corporate aircraft ie king air 350 and pc 12 types. This may not seem practical now,however in the future the type of people that would base aircraft at your airport will be people of means. They need to travel quickly, this involves larger aircraft . it would also might entice a helo operator to set up permanent base there. I would recommend that the corporate fbo hangar be owned by the city. operators come and go but having a facility is a good thing . the local aircadet sqn may be a good tenant too. aviation activites such as the casara might be a good tenant, leasing space for your towns emergency repsonse equipment and planning . given your strategic location.

best of luck!!

[Cod Father]

Comission eh? All owned by the village of Cache Creek?
Do what you can to make sure the village puts any tax money collected from the airport back into the airport.
Maybe ask the village of Ashcroft and the rural/county municipality to contribute to the airport as their residents will benefit from it too.

Check out the COPA Guide to Public Airports: http://archive.copanational.org/non-mem ... rports.htm

[Pirate Pilot]

Thanks again for the ideas. We have had 2 meetings so far and things are progressing. The GPS approach is in the works and should be completed by the fall. We are actively looking for funding for our runway extension. The fill and grade are already there....we just need about a 2 ft. top and then the asphalt. I guess the extension to 3900 ft. is needed (elevation 2034 ft.) for +30 c. degree days for the medevac(s) We get lots of those days in the summer. We have a key-lock pump and new fuel tank coming in June. Lighting will be next year hopefully.
The airport is owned by the village of Cache Creek. Our new official name is: Cache Creek-Ashcroft Regional Airport. CAZ5.
If you are anywhere in the region drop in for our annual Mothers Day Fly-In. The Lions Club puts on a big breakfast and there should be some interesting aircraft to look at.
Thanks for that COPA website address.....theres some good stuff in there.
Den