What If I dont want to work for Air Canada....

[westcoasting]

Hi,

I love this forum and it has pretty much scared me off my dream of getting my commercial rating, but everyone bitching seems to be gunning for the hardest jobs to get, that make the most money. I would be perfectly happy making $30,000 flying around some dinky plane. Why is everyone so hell bent on just getting hours and upgrading their rating to the next bigger and faster plane. Does anyone actually stick around at an airline they start at for a change? Im sure airlines must get sick of pilots just wanting to boost their hours then run out the door..... unless they don't want to pay their senior pilots a decent wage.

[jpilot77]

First nobody starts off at an airline. Second after a while for a lot of people the romance of being a pilot wears off and it becomes another job. The realities of life with the kids, morgage payments etc... makes flying for $30 000 less interesting. Saying all that there are other avenues in the aviation industry that you can earn a decent living and not work for an airline.

The important thing is you have to have the internal drive to reach your goals without somebody pushing you, remember sites like this tend to emphasize the negative (just like the news tends to be mostly bad news). If it's what you really want go for it just don't get easily discouraged.

[ScurvyDog]

Westcoasting, I had a great career flying for almost 15 years and 8500 hours. I just recently lost my medical and won't have it back for 5-8 years which is a career ender for me. I never chased heavy tin, never wanted the life style or politics of working in a large airline. I loved flying smaller aircraft and mainly flew small twins and some small corporate jets. While the industry and pay can be streaky it was extremely rewarding and I loved going to work. It also tended to be slot more conducive to family life also.

Bottom line, do what makes you happy. Don't be pressured by people at parties asking you when you will have enough experience to move up to the airlines. When ever I was ask that question I explained to them I had no desire to sit in a big tube and would have to take a pay cut for 10 years to do so. Plus what I was doing was much more fun than any day at a major.

Good luck and I hope you find your happy place!

[Changes in Latitudes]

I started off a bit like you. I never demanded an extravagant lifestyle, big house or big shiny toys, I just wanted to be treated alright, fly a safe aircraft (big, small, whatever) and enjoy my life. Now I may not have been so naive to set the bar as low as 30,000 per year, but I did not have a giant salary expectation either. But now I am married, I want to give my wife the best, have her work less; I want to look after my mom and I promise you 30K is not going to do that. My most valuable asset remains my time off and peace of mind, however, and I promise you, I am not going to see either of those flying around in a Navajo in NW Ontario.

There are PLENTY of great jobs that balance salary and an ok schedule outside of the airlines. HOWEVER, these jobs do not represent the majority of the opportunities presently available. So that's why you see some negativity. It's a lot of truth, go in aware and prepared to meet/avoid the pitfalls of this business. There is good information on this website, these are not lies people feed you. There is good and bad, just be prepared for the bad. It's hard to find a great job outside of the airlines even after you've got some decent experience, so you're going to have to work hard, shake hands and find what you want.

One last note though, if what you have read on this website scared you off your dream....Guess what, that's all it was, a dream. It wasn't a goal or mission if you read some bad press and got deterred so easily. You'll need some pretty solid resolve to make it through this business. Don't be scared, be educated, you'll never stop learning in aviation and some of the lessons are tough ones. I've been present in this industry for 15 years, and I still haven't got it all figured out.

I'm sorry if we paint a dark picture, we do focus on the negative a bit, but that's human nature at times.
Good luck.

[KK7]

It's one of those cases of the chicken or the egg, which came first.

Where people tend to start off their careers, and require little experience, they don't get paid a lot of money, partly because of the little experience the operator demands, and partly because the pilot will likely move on to another job.

Pilots don't stick around at many of their first companies because the money sucks, and it wasn't their original goal. Most pilots getting started out in aviation have big dreams, which is what dreams are all about. Some dream of flying big iron in the airlines, others have other dreams, but rarely is it the kind of place where most pilots end up starting work. Most people in the industry start off flying in the bush or instructing. The bush can be fun, but imagine living your life in desolate places for several decades. It's good for a while, but not forever. Instructing is also lots of fun, but for many it isn't what they dreamed of, and teaching the same lessons repeatedly day after day can be frustrating for many. This being said, there are exceptions where people stick around in these two sectors of the industry and lead very happy lives.

Ultimately, I think people's goals change throughout their career, which is why at each company you will find people who have been there forever, who are happy, and who did not originally intend to end up as lifers at the company they are at. I find my own goals change too over time as I experience different types of flying, and the fact that I have a family to support now that I didn't before, and want to be able to spend the most amount of time with them, while providing the best that I can with them, all while enjoying the employment that I require to support my family. This is a balance that is difficult to strike, but is proving to be possible.

[KAG]

There are some great northern companies flying smaller machines that people make a career flying at. Kenn Borek, Calm Air, First Air to name a few. On the money front, $30k is not a livable wage in today's economy. I think you'll find that as time goes on your priorties will change as will your need for higher income, schedule and days off. Ergo not staying at your first job. Some do, most don't. It's a rare company that even offers the opportunity for longevity.

If you don't want to work for Air Canada, then don't.

[Highflyinpilot]

[quote="westcoasting"]Hi,

. I would be perfectly happy making $30,000 flying around some dinky plane. [quote]


WOW!!! That may be ok for the first little while. I dont also care to make 250000$ a year(although would be nice) But I do expect to make a decent living at some point, Think retirement.


EDIT: I just navigated away, then came right back, You trolling??????

[TopperHarley]

Generally speaking, the best combination of pay, working conditions, retirement package, benefits, etc, is found at the bigger airlines. It's up to you to decide whats important to you (pay, size, lifestyle, etc), and target a sector of the industry which offers what you want.

[flyhigh-dude]

I guess by now you get the point!! Not to be rude at all...
Obviously, you must be young with no responsibility besides a car loan....but as you get older ( and I'm not talking 20 yrs from now) but within the next 5 yrs you might find yourself with a wife telling you she's pregnant and your 1 bedroom appartmant and busted old civic needs to be replaced!

Another reality issue that must be understood is that a 30K salary isn't quite the proper pay for a decent pilot who has gone through sacrifices and a whole lot of studying...and has a lot of responsibilities ( i.e : humain lives, and plane) in their hands.....but we wont open that can of worms..

In the end, your are always going to be a winner for reaching your goals...no matter what they are.
cheer

[LegoMan]

I think most people were like you westcoasting, especially when they were young, single and didn't have much to pay for. Truth is life at $30,000 a year is not very easy nor enjoyable. And if you are gone all the time and your wife has to work to support the family as well, you can be sure your marriage will most likely fail. If you can marry rich then sure go for the $30,000 job, but when you come to that point in your life where you want to settle down, buy a house, get married, have kids, buy some nice toys and vacation, you will see $30,000 just won't get you the lifestyle you seek.

[iflyforpie]

A low six-figures is 'comfortable living' anymore.

[co-joe]

Hi,

I love this forum and it has pretty much scared me off my dream of getting my commercial rating, but everyone bitching seems to be gunning for the hardest jobs to get, that make the most money. I would be perfectly happy making $30,000 flying around some dinky plane. Why is everyone so hell bent on just getting hours and upgrading their rating to the next bigger and faster plane. Does anyone actually stick around at an airline they start at for a change? Im sure airlines must get sick of pilots just wanting to boost their hours then run out the door..... unless they don't want to pay their senior pilots a decent wage.

Because some dinky plane operators will work you 30 on 3 off, 14 hours a day. Now your 30K works out to 5.95 per hour. You sure you want to live in your parent's basement for the rest of your life? Already independently wealthy? Spoiled rotten by your rich parents? Good you'll fit right in. Step right up to the plate...

[AuxBatOn]

I guess by now you get the point!! Not to be rude at all...
Obviously, you must be young with no responsibility besides a car loan....but as you get older ( and I'm not talking 20 yrs from now) but within the next 5 yrs you might find yourself with a wife telling you she's pregnant and your 1 bedroom appartmant and busted old civic needs to be replaced!

Another reality issue that must be understood is that a 30K salary isn't quite the proper pay for a decent pilot who has gone through sacrifices and a whole lot of studying...and has a lot of responsibilities ( i.e : humain lives, and plane) in their hands.....but we wont open that can of worms..

In the end, your are always going to be a winner for reaching your goals...no matter what they are.
cheer

If it is such a hard job that comes with incredible responsabilities that only a select few can do, why are there so many pilots?

Is it because the standard is too low and we are not actually preparing fresh CPLs to carry out their duties properly or is it because we, pilots, overglorify our work?

[Cat Driver]

Is it because the standard is too low and we are not actually preparing fresh CPLs to carry out their duties properly or is it because we, pilots, overglorify our work?

Maybe it is both of those reasons.

[floats4fun]

30K....seriously?

[flying4dollars]

Hi,

I love this forum and it has pretty much scared me off my dream of getting my commercial rating, but everyone bitching seems to be gunning for the hardest jobs to get, that make the most money. I would be perfectly happy making $30,000 flying around some dinky plane. Why is everyone so hell bent on just getting hours and upgrading their rating to the next bigger and faster plane. Does anyone actually stick around at an airline they start at for a change? Im sure airlines must get sick of pilots just wanting to boost their hours then run out the door..... unless they don't want to pay their senior pilots a decent wage.

No you wouldn't. You say that now, but you'd quickly change your mind.

[Bede]

If it is such a hard job that comes with incredible responsabilities that only a select few can do, why are there so many pilots?

Is it because the standard is too low and we are not actually preparing fresh CPLs to carry out their duties properly or is it because we, pilots, overglorify our work?

+++1

[. ._]

I thought there was a shortage.

But then again, maybe I picked the wrong week to do stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v46plhmx ... re=related

[xsbank]

I'd be perfectly happy flying some puddle-jumper about for $30,000 a month... Who wouldn't?

[SII]

I pay $500

[. ._]

You must be in Fort McMurray. (around 1:20 for those who don't get the joke)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2AQ8yUJ ... ideo_title

[RenegadeAV8R]

Hi,

.... I would be perfectly happy making $30,000 flying around some dinky plane.....

How old are you?

Don't you know that $30,000 per year is a very small amount of money?

Nobody is happy making only $30,000 per year.

That is the problem in aviation; too many amateur pilot faking to be professional.

[station60]

I would be perfectly happy making $30,000 flying around some dinky plane. Why is everyone so hell bent on just getting hours and upgrading their rating to the next bigger and faster plane.

Well westcoasting, when life hits you with a kid, a mortgage, a wife, etc, making $30,000 just doesn't quite cut it. Plus, it's people who do fly for $30k/yr that degrade the rest of us who are actually trying to make a living at this. This topic has been beat to death here on AvCanada, but pilots are underpaid for what they do. When an bus driver here in Ottawa makes over $100k/yr working less hours than me.....well you get the idea. I'm not bashing bus drivers, they do a standup job, but so do we. Anyways, I digress.

my 2 cents.

[Mitch Cronin]

I would be perfectly happy making $30,000 flying around some dinky plane. Why is everyone so hell bent on just getting hours and upgrading their rating to the next bigger and faster plane.

Well westcoasting, when life hits you with a kid, a mortgage, a wife, etc, making $30,000 just doesn't quite cut it. Plus, it's people who do fly for $30k/yr that degrade the rest of us who are actually trying to make a living at this. This topic has been beat to death here on AvCanada, but pilots are underpaid for what they do. When an bus driver here in Ottawa makes over $100k/yr working less hours than me.....well you get the idea. I'm not bashing bus drivers, they do a standup job, but so do we. Anyways, I digress.

my 2 cents.

No, that's not a digression, that's the heart of the issue. ...and you're absolutely right.

In my mind, the best job in the world is flying Beavers on the West Coast, but they should definitely be paid better than their ground-bound, bus driving cousins.

[ScurvyDog]

[/quote]
No, that's not a digression, that's the heart of the issue. ...and you're absolutely right.

In my mind, the best job in the world is flying Beavers on the West Coast, but they should definitely be paid better than their ground-bound, bus driving cousins.[/quote]


Well put. I wasn't saying that settle for $30k/year, but make sure you enjoy your job. I always preferred to be in a small plane skimming tree tops than flying big tin cans. Yes, I didn't make as much as a senior captain at AC, but I defiantly made more than a lot of FO's made.

Bottom line, don't sell yourself short and work for nothing but don't fly big metal just because of the money!