Flying from the Right Seat?

[Pavese]

Quick question for our instructors here. Instructors generally (always) fly from the right seat because the student flies from the left, is there any reason a licensed, non-instructor pilot couldn't fly from the right? Even though it would be a good idea, is there any mandatory instruction requirement for this?

Tks,

D

[Big Pistons Forever]

The only restriction on which seat you fly from would be in the "limitations" section of the POH. The Katana DA20 has a solo only from the left seat limitation and many tandem aircraft specify which seat must be occupied. That been said if you have never flown from the right seat before you will likely initially find it a bit strange having everything reversed and in particular the different sight picture on landing will take a bit of getting used to. A short checkout flight with a qualified instructor would be a good idea before trying this on your own.

[iflyforpie]

There is no restriction, other than any limitations that are in the AFM/POH and that the pilot must be able to reach all of the controls. If you are flying commercially (non-instructor), you have to have a right seat checkout.

Some people find it strange from the right seat; I found it to be even more natural having the throttle in the left hand. Don't try and offset right when you land, just keep the runway lines in the center of the control thingy.

If you are renting, many schools will get pissy about you flying from the right seat.

[Bushav8er]

Unless you fall under Part 7 Commercial Ops (703 sample) 723.88 (14) (also in 704/705) "Right Seat Conversion Training"

[alexdenham]

I agree with Big Pistons and wanted to add a few thoughts:

As a Class 1 instructor I train potential instructors to fly from the right seat and I find that the conversion is usually relatively straightforward. A checkout with an instructor is definitely a good idea as alignment during the landing can be tricky to get used to from the other seat. It can often take a few flights before the landings get straightened out after a switch to the right seat.

Something else that factors into the situation is who the aircraft belongs to. If it is your aircraft and there are no limitations in the POH or your insurance then there should be no legal or liability issue. However, flight schools are usually looking for safety above and beyond the regs. If the aircraft belongs to someone else (such as a flight school), they would probably like to be involved in the decision about whether and when you fly from the right seat.

Continuing along with the school example: At the school where I work, I would expect to conduct a right-seat checkout before allowing someone to fly from the right seat. I'd also expect to hear a good reason for flying from the right seat. Usually the controls that are critical for flight safety are reachable from both seats, however, on the Cherokee the fuel selector location would increase the risk involved with a solo flight from the right seat. It is important to assess if the additional risk is worth the perceived benefit. I guess thats me being pissy

[gustind]

Unless flying from the right seat is on insurance or some agreement you sign when you rent from the flight school, I'd call it a money grab where people walk around over-inflating how different life is 3 feet to the right to justify a "checkout flight" from the right seat so your Class 4 Instructor can gain another hour. Yes it is different, but nothing you can't figure out yourself in an hour in the circuit.

[The Old Fogducker]

Wow .... now I'm curious .... why a left seat only restriction for the DA20?

Tandems I can see ... reaching some controls maybe ... CG considerations, etc. But a side by side that I could reach across? Is the fuel selector in a weird spot or something?

OFD

[ybwflyguy]

Unless flying from the right seat is on insurance or some agreement you sign when you rent from the flight school, I'd call it a money grab where people walk around over-inflating how different life is 3 feet to the right to justify a "checkout flight" from the right seat so your Class 4 Instructor can gain another hour. Yes it is different, but nothing you can't figure out yourself in an hour in the circuit.

I'd agree totally for a seasoned pilot with a few hours under their belt, but would strongly recommend a right-seat check if you're an inexperienced/non-current pilot...especially if you don't have much type on that particular aircraft. It'll be a hundred bucks well spent to put your mind at rest, just make sure whatever instructor you take has experience on your aircraft model.

[iflyforpie]

Wow .... now I'm curious .... why a left seat only restriction for the DA20?

Tandems I can see ... reaching some controls maybe ... CG considerations, etc. But a side by side that I could reach across? Is the fuel selector in a weird spot or something?

OFD

Probably a liability limiting device. Most other trainer's Type Certificates were written before retarded litigation became so widespread.

[Number1]

The DA20's nosewheel is to the left of centre of the longitudinal axis. There is a potential for the aircraft to tip if only the right seat is occupied.

[Aeros]

Wow .... now I'm curious .... why a left seat only restriction for the DA20?

Tandems I can see ... reaching some controls maybe ... CG considerations, etc. But a side by side that I could reach across? Is the fuel selector in a weird spot or something?

OFD

When I asked about the restriction I was told that it was due to the location of the fuel selector. It is located on the left hand side of the centre pedestal about mid-calf height and, while it can be reached from the right seat, it is hidden from view. Apparently the fact that it was out of view of the pilot in the right seat was a show stopper.

[The Old Fogducker]

OK ... neat. Thanks for the info.

First time I can recall ever hearing of a left seat only restriction in the POH.

OFD

[photofly]

When I asked about the restriction I was told that it was due to the location of the fuel selector. It is located on the left hand side of the centre pedestal about mid-calf height and, while it can be reached from the right seat, it is hidden from view. Apparently the fact that it was out of view of the pilot in the right seat was a show stopper.

If it's a weight-and-balance thing then having a passenger in the left seat and the pilot in the right would be ok. If it's a control visibility thing then having a pilot in the right seat and an (unlicenced) passenger in the left seat would still be barred. Which way around is it?

[Beefitarian]

Anyone see the book? Does it say pilot or heavy person needs to be left seat? I can out weigh plenty of pilots by 100lbs.

[Pavese]

I agree with Big Pistons and wanted to add a few thoughts:

As a Class 1 instructor I train potential instructors to fly from the right seat and I find that the conversion is usually relatively straightforward. A checkout with an instructor is definitely a good idea as alignment during the landing can be tricky to get used to from the other seat. It can often take a few flights before the landings get straightened out after a switch to the right seat.

Something else that factors into the situation is who the aircraft belongs to. If it is your aircraft and there are no limitations in the POH or your insurance then there should be no legal or liability issue. However, flight schools are usually looking for safety above and beyond the regs. If the aircraft belongs to someone else (such as a flight school), they would probably like to be involved in the decision about whether and when you fly from the right seat.

Continuing along with the school example: At the school where I work, I would expect to conduct a right-seat checkout before allowing someone to fly from the right seat. I'd also expect to hear a good reason for flying from the right seat. Usually the controls that are critical for flight safety are reachable from both seats, however, on the Cherokee the fuel selector location would increase the risk involved with a solo flight from the right seat. It is important to assess if the additional risk is worth the perceived benefit. I guess thats me being pissy

Thanks to everyone who responded so far, plenty of very good and well thought comments, most appreciated.

It didn't occur to me to mention the A/C, it's a privately owned C-152 so the school/FBO issues probably wouldn't apply and I can't recall anything about left/right in the POH but a thorough read is in order there.

Alexd, you mentioned motives, the idea isn't to fly solo from the right it's to give a less experienced pilot (student) left seat point of view (seat time) while flying with a more experienced pilot (since they'd be flying together anyhow). Long term, when the student has their license both of the seats will be filled with pilots so knowing how to fly from both will be a benefit too. We wanted to ask the question in case there was a good reason to not fly from the right.

D

[Cat Driver]

Pavese, I could be wrong but reading your posts gives me the feeling you are contemplating teaching a student pilot when you are unsure of your own abilities?

[Big Pistons Forever]

Pavese

Don't take this the wrong way but it sounds to me like you are planning to offer instruction to a student pilot (ie one without at least a PPL) even though you are not an instructor. I had a real problem with this with one of my students a while back. He kept on showing up for lessons doing something different than I had taught him. It turned out he had been flying with another very experienced pilot. What he was doing would not have necessarily been bad if he had 5000 hrs, but for someone with 25 hrs they were simply not appropriate as he did not have the requisite knowledge or experience. If the purpose of your flights with this fellow is to give him more exposure to flying than which seat he sits in is not IMO especially important, what is important is that he gets a consistent message, so I would have a chat with his instructor so his flying with you is reinforcing his knowledge and experience, not complicating it.

[Pavese]

Pavese, I could be wrong but reading your posts gives me the feeling you are contemplating teaching a student pilot when you are unsure of your own abilities?

No, I'm the student and bypassing an instructor isn't the idea. I think I'd rather continue the discussion with you by PM if you're willing as I respect your experience and things have a way of going into tangents in the forum. For the larger group, I'm basically in the pre-test review phase and looking for a broader view having flown essentially with just my instructor. Let's leave it at that, OK?

BTW, good to see you back in the sandbox.

D

EDIT: BPF Your concerns are noted & valid, I'll have a chat with Cat & think it through. Amongst the chaff there are some people here that are willing to pass on their wisdom, I appreciate that. Tks.

[Beefitarian]

Just to be a jerk. I'm going to question your ability at this point to tell the difference between right and left seat especially in a 150. There would be a much bigger diference in some larger planes. Move half a cheek over the edge of the seat and you're almost on the other side.

I must say flying with your buddy even if you don't touch anything should be helpfull as long as you don't learn any counter productive things like BPF posted about. I know part of getting over being nervous in a high density airport for me was helped greatly by riding right seat as a navagator with CASARA when I was low time.

[Cat Driver]

Sure PM me and I will try and be helpful.

..

[hairdo]

Wow .... now I'm curious .... why a left seat only restriction for the DA20?

Tandems I can see ... reaching some controls maybe ... CG considerations, etc. But a side by side that I could reach across? Is the fuel selector in a weird spot or something?

OFD

I assume this is an A1 restriction. The C1's I used to fly didn't have said restriction. We instructors regularly flew them solo for maintenance test flights from the right seat.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Wow .... now I'm curious .... why a left seat only restriction for the DA20?

Tandems I can see ... reaching some controls maybe ... CG considerations, etc. But a side by side that I could reach across? Is the fuel selector in a weird spot or something?

OFD

I assume this is an A1 restriction. The C1's I used to fly didn't have said restriction. We instructors regularly flew them solo for maintenance test flights from the right seat.

Yes this only applies only to A1. It is in para 2.12 of the DA20 POH under "Flight Crew" which states Min Crew is one and all solo flight to be flown from the left seat. Of course this has nothing to do with where the PIC sits, only that if there is only one person in the aircraft he/she must be in the left seat.

[YOWza]

Could be that the A1's fuel valve is not visible from the right seat. Also difficult to reach for some people.