Online Petition to Scrap the Long Gun Registry

[Rockie]

What are you bringing to the table?

Common sense. Organized crime protects their business interests. They are not good samaritans and they are not interested in unselfishly protecting the public. The girls you saw harrassed were probably working for them if you catch my drift, and the guy harrassing them was bad for business. There are also many reasons why the guys in the brawl got beat up by criminals, but maintaining law and order so the police don't have to likely isn't one of them.

I scanned that book that you're talking about, and it seems that "Yakuza" isn't a single organization. The word is the equivalent of "organized crime" here in North America and describes a collection of separate organizations. According to that book the relationship between them and the police in Japan is not unlike many other parts of the world including Canada and the United States. It changes depending on how violent or in your face the criminals are. I must also add that the author of this book could be completely wrong about a great many things. Don't take everything you see, read or hear at face value.

Also, none of this bears on the fact that the total handgun ban in Japan has not prevented criminals from getting guns.

I don't recall anybody saying that it does. But it does make them rare in Japanese society, and combined with cultural characteristics it also helps makes Japanese society very safe. Gun crimes in Japan are a very very unusual occurrence. To suggest that Japan has organized crime to thank for that is utterly absurd.

The leader of a Federal Party that could very likely play king maker after the next election and the mayor of the most populous city in Canada have no political clout at all, real feather weights.

You should spend more time following Canadian politics instead of reading Japanese crime novels. Canadians expressed their opinion of the coalition last fall quite clearly mainly because of how much power was going to be given to the NDP. Layton was going to be way too close to the federal cheque book for anyone's liking, and he won't ever get that close again if Canadians have anything to say about it. There is also a big difference between municipal and federal politics. We have nothing to fear on the federal scene from David Miller, except that he extorted federal money to bail him out of the bridge fiasco. That means people in Rimouski and Prince Rupert had to pay a dollar each for his buffoonery. No one's going to let him near the federal cheque book either.

Dude

Who is this "Dude" guy you keep referring to?

[mcrit]

mcrit wrote:
What are you bringing to the table?


Common sense. Organized crime protects their business interests. They are not good samaritans and they are not interested in unselfishly protecting the public.

Dude, I never said they were good samaritans. There is a tacit relationship between the cops and the Yakuza. The cops don't mess with the quiet, high profit Yakuza activities (Drugs, Hookers, Gambling) and the Yakuza keep the street level crime under control. Go google it.

I must also add that the author of this book could be completely wrong about a great many things.

Dude, if he is wrong then so are a lot of other authors who have written similar things, as are all the Japanese people that I talked to. Going on the preponderance of evidence (1 former jet jock who's never lived in Japan vs a number of very learned anthropologists and numerous Nohonjin) I'm disinclined to agree with you.

Gun crimes in Japan are a very very unusual occurrence. To suggest that Japan has organized crime to thank for that is utterly absurd.

Dude, I never did. I just pointed out that a total ban on guns did nothing to prevent criminals from getting them. The safety of Japanese society is due to a number of reasons; a no nonsense court system, an even more no nonsense prison system, and the relationship between the Yakuza and the cops.

Canadians expressed their opinion of the coalition last fall quite clearly mainly because of how much power was going to be given to the NDP.

Dude, the major killers of that were Dion, and the power afforded the Bloc. You might want to review your Canadian politics. A casual inspection of the record shows that the NDP (or their predecessors) have held the balance of power in minority governments 6 times since the 50s. If you don't want to worry about Layton, that is your perogative, but history does not support you. You might also want to look up 'Bob Rae'.

Dude

Who is this "Dude" guy you keep referring to?

I thought that was pretty clear dude. I was referring to you dude.

[Rockie]

You have a real affection for the word dude. My 20 year old son grew out of his a couple of years ago. I do remember Bob Rae because I was actually around the last time anyone gave him any authority. Total disaster, and it is not likely to ever happen again. You can fret about Layton and Miller all you want but it's a waste of your energy unless you happen to live in Toronto. Then I'd be worried.

I believe I mentioned earlier in this thread that we will never come to an agreement on why Japanese society has very little problem with guns. Turns out I was right because we both appear to be wrong...or right. How about we call this one undecided and move on?

[mcrit]

I mentioned earlier in this thread that we will never come to an agreement on why Japanese society has very little problem with guns. Turns out I was right because we both appear to be wrong...or right. How about we call this one undecided and move on?

I'll concede that I'm not going to change your opinion on it, in terms of being wrong, speak for yourself.

You have a real affection for the word dude.

Not really.....I just figured it would nettle you....buddy.

[niss]

Not really.....I just figured it would nettle you....buddy.

I'm not your buddy.....friend!

[HS-748 2A]

That was your 4200th post Niss. Congrats.

[niss]

That was your 4200th post Niss. Congrats.

Hells Yea!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwEMxYggoKQ

[Siddley Hawker]

Here comes the kitchen knife registry.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm

[tzu]

The theme from "Deliverance" is loud and clear in this forum.

[HS-748 2A]

Do not view the kitchen Knife Regstry in isolation Siddely Hawker. You must look at the big picture.

It won't kill people to register their knives just like it doesn't kill them to register their cars.

Opposition to this is way out of proportion to the simple things knife owners are required to do.

Just register the things and take responsibility for them. It's not very hard really.

To simplify the registry, and reduce cost to tax payers, any kitchen knife with a blade longer than 105mm will be illegal and can be turned in to your nearest police station during Kitchen Knife Declaration Amnesty Week.

It's all very simple really.

Thank you for your compliance.

Cheers,

48

[Siddley Hawker]

The theme from "Deliverance" is loud and clear in this forum.

You playin' the banjo or the guitar?

Thanks for that HS. It's all clear to me now.

[Rockie]

http://www.web2txt.co.uk/deliverance-de ... -7139.html

For all you Clampetts out there. You know who you are.

[HS-748 2A]

It's all quite ironic really - this talk of Deliverance; the Gun Registry makes this northern bush-bunny feel alot like I'm the one 'squealing like a pig'...

That must be called "Receiverance".

[Rockie]

If you don't hide your gun up your ass that feeling will go away.

[rigpiggy]

If you don't hide your gun up your ass that feeling will go away.

As opposed to a head?

[Rockie]

I didn't think there was enough room for a gun and a head, but that could explain it as well.

[LH]

This whole discussion (argument) concerning long OR short gun registry is never going to go anywhere and continues on year after year after year. If one believes and pays close attention to the governments and other 'experts', then one is left with the following information. He (she) may pick from this information that which makes sense to them and seems believeable. That information is : 1) weapons of all types are smuggled into Canada from the US by all manner of peoples (2) weapons are smuggled into Canada from the US by organized crime of all types (3) that the United States is the primary supplier of the weapons that end up crossing the border into Canada and that Canadian weapons laws are non-existant and/or totally inadequate. Those that are raised in the rural areas will always be at odds with those of the urban areas because in one locale a wepon may ne necessary for various reasons around a farm or ranch and finding a reason for one to be kept in the urban enviroment makes for a difficult argument. Since the rural population is shrinking yearly more and more and the urban poulations are rising, the rural argument for weapons is someday doomed to failure.........but on and on it goes and will never stop.

The above ideas are further re-enforced by the Federal Government that controls the borders and by the various police forces. While all of the above beliefs are being re-enforced, they all 'forget' to remind Canadians that Canada and it's highways and international ocean ports are major routes for transporting weapons into Canada, bound for other countries and also rest in shipping containers on the docks and in the warehouses on those docks of numerous Canadian cities. Organized crime knows this also because they have their 'tentacles' into unions at those sites and through other means. All manner of wepons can 'go missing' from those containers while they sit on those docks and are re-sealed again. Many of thoise containers are then transported from coast to coast across Canada by semi-trailer or railway to another port, awaiting transport by sea to their original foreign country of designation. Some of these weapons that 'go missing' from these containers while they rest on Canadian soil are stamped with well-known American firearms manufacturers. They were NOT made in the US, NOT traansported from the US and will NEVER enter the US. These are firearms made UNDER LICENSE by foreign companies, in foreign lands, who have no legal requirement to advise the American manufacturer of who they are signing contracts with for those weapons. They are a sovereign country and why should they?

Thses weapons, including everything up to and including a large variety of missiles are transported across Canada by various means each and every month. As I write this, my brother is transporting 8 missiles across Canada by semi-trailer and it is also not his first time. Never ever heard anything about any of this from the likes of any Federal Government MP or Cabinet Member? It has been taking place for decades, but we ALL know for a fact that practically all of the firearms that arrive in Canada illegally, do so from the US and are smuggled over the 49th by 'criminals' of one type or another.

So make the rules with regards all manner of firearms and either obey them or don't obey them.......your choice. If you have no use for firearms of any type and/or have never ever held one, then everytime you hear of another person being shot, demand that ALL guns be banned except for the military and police. Demand and make all the laws that make you happy, BUT understand THIS...............you are making laws that you cannot enforce, nor can your police forces. Also understand that international companies of all types are shipping by sea are NOT going to ship around the southern tip of South America or through the Panama Canal when they can do so across North America by various means. They will ship across either one of the 2 countries that make-up North America and have been doing so for eons. Therefore, if you so wish to hang-on diligently to the belief that the next person murdered will be so with a weapon manufactured in the US and smuggled into Canada somehow from the US, then you go right ahead. The Feds can't control the foregoing problem and neither can the RCMP. Therefore you let the masses bask in their ignorance and say there is nothing you can do further because the US is a sovereign country and they don't like the situation the way it is either. That way, you don't even have to openly tell your population even about the various multitudes and types of weapons (missiles included) that populate Canadian highways in semi-trailers or aboard their railway tracks practicall every day. Also try to keep it low profile that Canada itself is the world's 5th largest maker of various weapons and they don't get transported other places with "Beam me up Scottie" They have to move them from the factories some how.


Lastly, Japan is not even 'a bit player' in the world of the above as Canada is. Discussing their part in all of the above traffic is inane and uninformed at best.

[mcrit]

Lastly, Japan is not even 'a bit player' in the world of the above as Canada is. Discussing their part in all of the above traffic is inane and uninformed at best.

Yeah, no one ever claimed the Japanese were putting weapons on Canada's streets. The reason they were brought into the discussion was that their gun ban did not prevent criminals from getting guns. Other than that, your post had some good points.

[LH]

Apologies for misinterepting.....and I also totally agree.

Before we also keep on our continual Canadian rant against the Americans for this problem perhaps we should gaze at our own navel for a change and put down our pointy finger.

There is a place on the northern seacoast of BC, just at the border with the bottom of Alaska Panhandle that it borders, named Stewart, BC. One mile away, around the end of a little cove is a very small American town. The crossing of that border point is a very nice walk on a summer evening and done so quite often because the liquor establishments are many more than Stewart and the booze much cheaper. The border point building is sometimes mannned and sometimes not. Ditto for those coming from the American side. It's been this way for over 100 years.......pre and post 9/11. One may also purchase other articles on the American side also as would be expected. One may also discreetly slip maybe $400 CDN to any one of the bartenders and state that you're looking for a handgun......perhaps a .357 Mag or a .44 Mag.......and would he be able to help you out in the coming days. You pass him your phone numbers. You'll have either weapon either before the evening is finished or within 48 hrs. at the most. You can put that weapon in any pocket you desire and walk back over the Canadian border and into the hinterlands of Canada, should you so desire. You haven't been 'picked-up' on camera, you don't have to register something that nobody realizes you have and unless you are stupid, you've also purchased your ammunition at the same time and away you go. Once again, another weapon 'smuggled' over the US/Can border by some Mafiosi, Hell's Angel or organized crime figure. Never heard tell of this and where in the Hell is 'what's'-the-name-of-that-place' in BC? Don't ask the Feds because they'll claim they never heard of these problems at this locale or cast doubts on the validity of your statements. They've officially known about the problem since April of 1964. Never mind all this though and just concenmtrate on those rotten Americans and their border points that are close to Vancouver or TO.

The majority of Canadians wouldn't even believe that amount of weapons and types of weapons that are stolen off-of of the Vancouver docks, from containers, in the space of one year. It always was a problem to some degree, but has skyrocketed since the immigration of many from Hong Kong with the Chinese retaking contraol of that city. Along with the good immigrants came the bad, the Yakuza, etc. etc. They should have been prevented from coming as much as possible, but that wasn't allowed to happen for fear of appearing racist and background checks were scanty at best. Even the Hong Kong Police arned the Canadian government of what troubles they were importing by not giving heed to the various backgrounds The Feds were warned of what was going to happen and the backgrounds of many of those allowed into Canada. They warned of a large rise in violent crime and an increase in organized crimes and drug traffic. All was ignored by those in Ottawa feeling that they knew better. They now have the results that they were warned about and the backgrounds of many of those allowed into Canada would not have allowed them into any other country except Canada. Those same 'Ottawa Mandarins' have never been made to stand-up to the Canadian public and admit that they were wrong because that would be 'political sucide and they'd be deemed rasist for sure.


But have no fear. As long as we can blame the Americans for all these gun problems we have, then it diverts attention away from these other areas and we keep stating...."we can only make so many laws and do so much within our own border because after all, our laws don't reach into the US as they are a sovereign nation".

[grimey]

I think we need a boobies registry. They can be dangerous weapons.

http://ca.askmen.com/top_10/entertainme ... _list.html

Fortunately, the NDP agrees with me:

http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Sites/LOP/LEGISI ... 6&List=toc

[mcrit]

You can fret about Layton and Miller all you want but it's a waste of your energy unless you happen to live in Toronto.

Sorry, had to dig this one up and throw it out there on the eve of this election.

[Rockie]

Boy, you went back some to find that one. How long did it take you?

BTW I'm still not fretting Layton. He can't be worse than Harper and it's amazing how a little bit of responsibility can change your outlook on some things. Just ask Roy Romanow.

[Siddley Hawker]

Thomas Mulcair is Layton's #2 man, his #1 in Quebec. Along with the Bloc and the Parti Quebecois, Mulcair agreed to their proposal to extend the provisions of Bill 101, the Charter of the French language, into all federally regulated institutions. In addition, he agrees with the latter that the language restrictions of Bill 101 should include all applicants to junior colleges - CEGEP's - and mom and pop businesses. In the case of the banks and other federally regulated operations and the mom/pop enterprises, this would entail that all internal communication be carried out in French. In the case of the CEGEP's, no French speaking students or any student from outside the province would be allowed access to English education at the junior college level. I'd love to see the CBC in Montreal have to carry out all internal communication, including program research, in French, then go on air in English.

In order to make sense of the figure, the deficit should be presented as a percentage of GDP, otherwise it's meaningless. The current deficit represents 3.5% of GDP. Any deficit is too big a deficit, but compared to the deficits run up by Trudeau to pay for all the free shit we enjoy, as well as the deficits run up by Mulroney to pay the interest of the loans for all the free shit, it's pretty small beer. If anything pisses me off with Harper, it's that he lowered the GST and left income tax pretty well alone. This made for great politics but piss-poor fiscal sense.

The F-35 is a weapons system designed to replace another weapons system. How do the figures being bandied about compare to the cost of the system that is being replaced? What was the original estimate for the F-18, and how does it compare to the actual cost of the aircraft over their operational life? Anybody know that? One other thing, ok a bunch of other things. The Liberals sent Canadian troops into Afghanistan in forest camo, with glorified Volkswagen Things to ride around in. They cancelled a helicopter contract and paid $458M in cancellation costs, then ordered an aircraft that existed only on paper, and 15 years later we're still waiting for the first one to appear. They orderd a billion worth of submarines that don't submerge, only one of which even floats. How in Christ's name can anyone with two grams of grey matter to rub together believe the Liberals know WTF they're talking about when it comes to anything military?

[mcrit]

Boy, you went back some to find that one. How long did it take you?

About 20s with the search function.

BTW I'm still not fretting Layton. He can't be worse than Harper and it's amazing how a little bit of responsibility can change your outlook on some things. Just ask Roy Romanow.

I'm sorry, I thought you said you lived through the Rae Days.

[Rockie]

I'm sorry, I thought you said you lived through the Rae Days.

I don't recall saying that, but as a matter of fact I did live through the Rae days. I think you would find Bob Rae wouldn't make the same mistakes were he to have another kick at the can. I also lived through the Roy Romanow days who also happened to be NDP, but he behaved much more fiscally responsibly than Harper has so far.

Bottom line is Jack Layton has been around long enough I think to know the difference between pragmatic necessity and unworkable ideology. He just has never had to deal with it before now, and you can see him beginning to struggle with it some as his electoral chances are increasing. I would be far more worried if he wasn't struggling.

Contrast that with Harper's actual fiscal performance which has been dismal especially considering he is a trained economist. And his blatant disrespect for Canada's parliamentary democratic system is taking this country somewhere few people would want to go if they gave it a little thought.

Harper has based his entire campaign on fear, but he's the guy people should be most afraid of.