Does a foreign body have the ability to lay fines, or revoke

[niss]

your license?

Even though most of the countries are bound by ICAO there are obviously a few differences in local laws. My question is say if flying a Canadian A/C wit a Canadian license through the US and you contravene the FARS, if such a crime is license suspension worthy, can they leverage that against a cdn license? Likewise can TC do the same to other countries licenses?

[grimey]

The real question, niss, is what the heck did the letter you got actually say?

[CFMartin]

Niss, the answer is in the Aeronautics Act. Sections 4.(1) and 4.1

[niss]

Thanks for the info.

My question more applies to an instance where you broke a local law that is not against canadian law.

This question comes around from my own curiosity. I read that CDN owner maintained aircraft are not allowed to fly in the US. Also US owners have more leniancy in regards to the mx they are allowed to do on their own a/c.

So lets say they fly an a/c they worked on up here and if it was a CDN ac it would not be airworthy, are they subject to the same penalties. Like wise if I fly an owner mx ac down to the states what can they do to me?

UBC is certified and airworthy so Im not personally worried, just interested.

[Tailwind W10]

Niss, the FAA has been quite adamant about not allowing Canadian OM aircraft into US airspace. By their reasoning, these aircraft do not meet the requirements for airworthiness. From COPA's "Guide to the Owner-Mainenance Category":

"Flying in the USA?
"The FAA has some serious issues regarding the Canadian O-M category hand has been refusing permission for Canadian O-M aircraft to operate in the USA or in any US airspace since July 2002. Their reasons for this are outlined in their policy paper on the subject -
http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?doc ... 4F00766768

"COPA is currently working on thsi issue, but we don't have a solution at this time and it looks like it will not be resolved in the near future.

"The bottom line is: if you need to be able to fly your airplane outside of Canada do not put it in the O-M category."

http://www.copanational.org/files/COPA% ... g%2009.pdf

Gerry

[RVgrin]

My question more applies to an instance where you broke a local law that is not against canadian law.

I suppose that is impossible if failure to follow foreign rules while flying outside of Canada is required by the CARs. That's the first thing I would check.

I seem to recall that when a foreign air regulation conflicts with a canadian one, the Canadian pilot must fly the more conservative of the two when flying in that country.

[Prairie Chicken]

I think RV has it right, but put another way, if the a/c is registered in Canada it must comply with Cdn regs. If it is operated in the US, it must comply with the FARS.

A foreign CAA does not have the authority to suspend a CAD, but they may pass the results of their investigation, or their evidence, to TC & request an investigation (& possibly a suspension). Similarly, TC may do the same when a foreign a/c contravenes the CARS.

A CAA, TC for example, may assess a monetary penalty against a foreigner. Collecting the penalty may be more difficult but some options do exist depending on nature of the file.

[Panama Jack]

About 16 years ago I saw what Prairie Chicken states in action.

I was visiting the offices of the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) in Beijing and the inspector was dealing with a file from Canada where a Air China crew had not complied with the mandatory noise abatement procedures while operating at a Canadian airport.

He explained that it was his job to correctly identify who the violators were, apply a penalty and report back to the Canadian regulators on the actions taken by CAAC. He went on to further explain that this was part of the obligations of ICAO membership and that if CAAC did not do its part, in the future, Chinese aircraft could be banned from operating to Canada.

I thought it was all very interesting seeing this process in action. So to answer the question niss, you might catch initial wind of it from the FAA mentioning the violation but it would be Transport Canada who would be coming after you on behalf of the FAA.

[niss]

About 16 years ago I saw what Prairie Chicken states in action.

I was visiting the offices of the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) in Beijing and the inspector was dealing with a file from Canada where a Air China crew had not complied with the mandatory noise abatement procedures while operating at a Canadian airport.

He explained that it was his job to correctly identify who the violators were, apply a penalty and report back to the Canadian regulators on the actions taken by CAAC. He went on to further explain that this was part of the obligations of ICAO membership and that if CAAC did not do its part, in the future, Chinese aircraft could be banned from operating to Canada.

I thought it was all very interesting seeing this process in action. So to answer the question niss, you might catch initial wind of it from the FAA mentioning the violation but it would be Transport Canada who would be coming after you on behalf of the FAA.

Thanks for the answers guys. Like I said my a/c is cert. and I don't plan on contravening any regs. All this came about when I was watching that youtube video of air china at JFK and was thinking about the relationship between ICAO, individual country laws and enforcement issues.

[Panama Jack]

Well, since you are mentioning Air China and the language issue . . .

The CAAC started taking the language-challenge very seriously as late as the early 1990's, which was the reason that I was in China at the time. At the time the then-Administrator of the CAAC dictated an ambitious goal that all Chinese pilots and Air Traffic Controllers shall have a working knowledge of aviation English within a period of three years. If you have ever tried to learn a foreign language you will appreciate the challenges of this, especially when applied over thousands of people and in a country like China where the penetration of the English-language has been limited and is so markedly different from Chinese.

I was involved in a project of improving the English-language skills in cadet pilots for one of the major Chinese airlines. This was before they would be sent to Australia to receive their flight training.

Overall, I would have to say that the project has been successful although there have been exceptions like the one you mentioned. Likewise, there are some personnel (both ATC and pilots) whose command of English is very limited. About 2 or 3 years ago I had great difficulty trying to solicit the aerodrome weather and runway in use for Kashi (ICAO: ZWSH) from the local controller as we were flying overhead (Kashi was an aerodrome in our Decompression Escape Route and no weather came up on our ACARS).

I believe that notable incidents like the Air China in JFK video brought the ICAO to impliment the English langugage proficienc grades, which is a step in the right direction also.

[C-FABH]

Niss, the FAA has been quite adamant about not allowing Canadian OM aircraft into US airspace. By their reasoning, these aircraft do not meet the requirements for airworthiness. From COPA's "Guide to the Owner-Mainenance Category":

"Flying in the USA?
"The FAA has some serious issues regarding the Canadian O-M category hand has been refusing permission for Canadian O-M aircraft to operate in the USA or in any US airspace since July 2002. Their reasons for this are outlined in their policy paper on the subject -
http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?doc ... 4F00766768

"COPA is currently working on thsi issue, but we don't have a solution at this time and it looks like it will not be resolved in the near future.

"The bottom line is: if you need to be able to fly your airplane outside of Canada do not put it in the O-M category."

http://www.copanational.org/files/COPA% ... g%2009.pdf

Gerry

How quaint. They don't allow O-M but the FAA is perfectly content with commercial airliners being serviced at third-world MROs in El Salvador, Guatemala, etc. What is worse, a Cessna 150 with O-M or an A320 serviced by $2/hr unqualified staff that don't understand English?

[trey kule]

You know, after over 4 decades in this business I constantly learn something new.

For example, I did not know that speaking a language other than English hampered your ability to work on aircraft. How does the rest of the world ever manage?

And I did not know that paying someone to local standards makes them unqualified...How do you know all this great stuff?

So maybe we should try and get the regulator to ban eveyone who does not speak English from working on Airplanes. I cant see a problem with that...can you? And maybe we should all demand that in foreign countries where $3.00 a DAY is the average wage and enough to live on , the $2.00 to $5.00 an HOUR folks should demand wages compared to Canada.

Yes, all English speaking and paid to Canadain standards. Your grasp of the situation is truly enlightnening.

[nimbostratus]

About 16 years ago I saw what Prairie Chicken states in action.

I was visiting the offices of the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) in Beijing and the inspector was dealing with a file from Canada where a Air China crew had not complied with the mandatory noise abatement procedures while operating at a Canadian airport.

He explained that it was his job to correctly identify who the violators were, apply a penalty and report back to the Canadian regulators on the actions taken by CAAC. He went on to further explain that this was part of the obligations of ICAO membership and that if CAAC did not do its part, in the future, Chinese aircraft could be banned from operating to Canada.

I thought it was all very interesting seeing this process in action. So to answer the question niss, you might catch initial wind of it from the FAA mentioning the violation but it would be Transport Canada who would be coming after you on behalf of the FAA.

+1 This is the way I understand it as well.

Nimbo

[PunkStarStudios]

You know, after over 4 decades in this business I constantly learn something new.
For example, I did not know that speaking a language other than English hampered your ability to work on aircraft. How does the rest of the world ever manage?

I don't believe we was talking about mechanics speaking English - just pilots and ATC.

[Beefitarian]

Can't we all just get along?

I think this guy started talking about the "mechanics."

What is worse, a Cessna 150 with O-M or an A320 serviced by $2/hr unqualified staff that don't understand English?

[Expat]

A few years ago, I also came across a rule that said the engine overhauls for private planes, in the US did not meet Canadian standards. Is that still in effect?

[Expat]

Can't we all just get along?

I think this guy started talking about the "mechanics."

What is worse, a Cessna 150 with O-M or an A320 serviced by $2/hr unqualified staff that don't understand English?

It's all politices. Safety is all about politics... and money.