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DHCdriver
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:45 am 
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Watched the youtube vid on website, looks like a cozy little community at your lodge. What else is included with the 4000/month? Free room and board, week off once a month? 4 just seems low for a high arctic job. Would be fun job for me on days off. Please post some more details.


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Les Habitants
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:00 am 
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My word, nothing makes you happy does it?

4 grand a month is great! I'm VERY happy with my pay, and I don't even get that much.

Jeez louise, some people think they deserve the world to fly a dang aeroplane!


Last edited by Les Habitants on Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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rigpiggy
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:41 am 
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Maybe it is just that for a high arctic seasonal job it is low. 15 years ago I was making 3500 base and .20/mile made on average 7k, however with a family down south, paying 400/month to the boss for rent and 4$/litre for milk even that didn't go far.


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DHCdriver
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:15 am 
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Les Habitants wrote:
4 grand a month is great! I'm VERY happy with my pay, and I don't even get that much.


Well that's the main thing your "happy". 4000/month is a good wage for a first year beaver driver in the south. I think it's a little low for a high arctic gig, all depending what else is offered. If your offered free room and board for your stay there and maybe a little added mileage then hell go for it.


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TeePeeCreeper
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:35 am 
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Les Habitants wrote:
4 grand a month is great! I'm VERY happy with my pay, and I don't even get that much.

Jeez louise, some people think they deserve the world to fly a dang aeroplane!



Are you 'effing serious? 4K a month is great??? My first beaver job way down south paid considerably more than that.... longer season, very nice accomodations etc, etc....

If you really think that 4K a month is a ''great wage'' you should really be giving your head a shake... its folks with ''I'll fly anything for peanuts''' type mentality whom are doing our industry a diservice.


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iflyforpie
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:50 am 
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This info may be a little out of date, but I used to work for the AMO that 'worked' :wink: :wink: on his aircraft. :D

The season there is very short, really only about two months plus a lot of prep work hauling fuel and supplies. The hours are illegally insane. Don't expect a day off unless it is weather related and expect lots of things to be kept out of the logbooks for legal purposes (duty days and time limits, lack of an AME some years).

I think $4000 a month with accommodation is an insult for a seasonal job given the shortness of the season and the remoteness (though it would be really neat to go up there, and the Arctic Char is really good!). Maybe it's good enough for some (it's certainly not a low-timer job) but given that it is smack dab in the middle of the other float seasonal jobs I hope you have a good paying winter job....


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Les Habitants
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:34 am 
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TeePeeCreeper wrote:
Les Habitants wrote:
4 grand a month is great! I'm VERY happy with my pay, and I don't even get that much.

Jeez louise, some people think they deserve the world to fly a dang aeroplane!



Are you 'effing serious? 4K a month is great??? My first beaver job way down south paid considerably more than that.... longer season, very nice accomodations etc, etc....

If you really think that 4K a month is a ''great wage'' you should really be giving your head a shake... its folks with ''I'll fly anything for peanuts''' type mentality whom are doing our industry a diservice.


I won't fly for peanuts, but if I was making 4K a year, given my age and marital status, I'd be very happy with that!

You find folks that will do nothing but complaiiinnn about everything (Especially wage). They are also the ones who probably don't enjoy their jobs either.


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rigpiggy
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:39 pm 
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Congrats LH, you just made my ignore list. If you want to work for him go for it, but in 8 years with a family and mortgage if you still want to work for SFA, yer terminally dumb. Oh BTW when I worked up north before rich americans were paying 10k/week to go to hunting/fishing camps. Get yer piece of the pie


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Darkhorse
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:49 pm 
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Les Habitants wrote:
TeePeeCreeper wrote:
Les Habitants wrote:

I won't fly for peanuts, but if I was making 4K a year, given my age and marital status, I'd be very happy with that!

You find folks that will do nothing but complaiiinnn about everything (Especially wage). They are also the ones who probably don't enjoy their jobs either.



Thats the problem with guys like you - you will settle for anything because you wanna fly a plane - ridiculous. 30 years ago pilots were at the same level as lawyers and doctors in salary - now were below taxi and truck drivers - absolutely disgraceful what this industry has become. Main reason: because pilots will accept anything thrown at them if it gets them that first, second or next "big job" or in your case as stated above.

Central Mountain Air in vancouver pays around $40,000 a year for captains to fly a 1900. The reason they get away with it is because they know pilots will accept it to get the next carrot.

Aviation in Canada needs to change for the better where pilots and other key staff are recognized for their time getting the license, experience, ratings, medicals, etc etc. and paid an appropriate wage for the work.


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DHCdriver
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:55 pm 
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Darkhorse wrote:
Aviation in Canada needs to change for the better where pilots and other key staff are recognized for their time getting the license, experience, ratings, medicals, etc etc. and paid an appropriate wage for the work.


I agree, BUT with our friend Les Habitants working for peanuts( but don't forget he's happy with it), it will be a long fight to get this industry back where it needs to be.


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TeePeeCreeper
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:12 am 
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Les Habitants wrote:
I won't fly for peanuts, but if I was making 4K a year, given my age and marital status, I'd be very happy with that!

You find folks that will do nothing but complaiiinnn about everything (Especially wage). They are also the ones who probably don't enjoy their jobs either.


Please listen to this ''tidbit" of insight young grasshopper.... Age and marital status are not the bench marks used by employers to determine salary levels.... Your qualifications and experience are the determining factors...
Why would being young (does not necessarily mean inexperienced) or single without kids (doesn't mean that you might not have a big mortgage, debts or perhaps an addiction to expensive single malt beverages) determine your salary????
By accepting less than you are worth you are not only selling yourself short, but are also lowering the bar for those whom come after you.

P.S I enjoy my job, and get paid very well to do what I do. My successor will make the same amount or more than I currently do... that's how it works if you don't sell yourself and others short!


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iflyforpie
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:55 pm 
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I don't make a ton, but I make more per month year round than this job pays for two or three months and I am at a similar experience level as those who would fly it. I wouldn't be flying (and didn't for a while) if it was lower.

I didn't marry aviation, I married my wife and I have kids and a mortgage and a zillion things to do other than aviation. I'm sure my boss could find somebody else young and unattached to do it for less and be available after hours and days off at the drop of a hat, but that same person most likely would take off to a turbine job with two week's notice at the worst possible time.

Don't sell yourself short. If pilots don't fly, companies don't make money. If nobody would go up there for less than $6000 a month, that is what they would have to pay.

We can all dream, can't we?


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Les Habitants
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:10 am 
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DarkHorse:

Actually, that's funny, because I make almost as much as those CMA captains you speak of as an FO on a multi turbine airplane. Which, FYI is less than 4K a year. (4K a year = 48K, and yes, FYI, for a multi turbine captain, I agree this is low), but for a float pilot? 4K a month for the summer seems fair. What are you expecting? A full wage for 4 months of work?

But who am I kidding? you're right, you're all right (as always). I work for peanuts, I ask to work for free and ask to pay huge 3 year training bonds :roll:

I'll make sure to tell my next employer I expect 60K a year to be FO on a King Air, with a 5K signing bonus, and a 5K annual bonus, per diems, free meals, free accommodations, and I only want to work 10 days a month. Cuz ya know, that's totally gonna change this industry.

TeePeeCreeper wrote:

Please listen to this ''tidbit" of insight young grasshopper.... Age and marital status are not the bench marks used by employers to determine salary levels.... Your qualifications and experience are the determining factors...
Why would being young (does not necessarily mean inexperienced) or single without kids (doesn't mean that you might not have a big mortgage, debts or perhaps an addiction to expensive single malt beverages) determine your salary????
By accepting less than you are worth you are not only selling yourself short, but are also lowering the bar for those whom come after you.

P.S I enjoy my job, and get paid very well to do what I do. My successor will make the same amount or more than I currently do... that's how it works if you don't sell yourself and others short!


TeePeeCreeper, this is a good point. Thanks for pointing it (and politely). I don't let it determine my salary-I get paid what everyone else at my level in my company gets paid. I suppose it seems like I have a lot of spare cash given the fact that I am young and single. Yes I do have debts (don't we all for a few years after flight school?), but I am doing quite well to be paying it off at the rate I am able to.

I feel very strongly I am getting paid at least what I am worth, and if you want to know a rough number, you can reference a few paragraphs up in my post.

Happy flying all!


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DHCdriver
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:43 am 
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Les Habitants wrote:
I'll make sure to tell my next employer I expect 60K a year to be FO on a King Air, with a 5K signing bonus, and a 5K annual bonus, per diems, free meals, free accommodations, and I only want to work 10 days a month. Cuz ya know, that's totally gonna change this industry.


That a boy, your finally getting it.
Les Habitants wrote:
but for a float pilot?


Ya, they only fly float planes so pay them less! The seasonal float operators are the guys we have to work on to get those wages back to standard. Now that we have LH on board we can start working on the next guy.


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Lost Lake
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:38 am 
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I flew for them years back. It is great flying, but you better have a higher than average skill level. High winds, tides, sea fog and the odd piece of granite thrown in/ People have been hurt real quick who don't pay attention/ There used to be 2 postings, one in CB doing the fish haul, and the other was at the base flying tourists. Camp job includes food and accomodation. As for wages. I think they are only tring to test the water. They will pay more for the right guy. As it's only a 10 week gig, it is not for young aspiring pilots, more for old dogs who want to keep their skills. make a few dollars, and enjoy some interesting flying.

The job also requires you to ferry the plane from Penticton to CB and back again. The owner is an AME, the planes are fine tuned before departure and are serviced when needed. I will do this gig again when I retire.


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Darkhorse
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:12 pm 
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but for a float pilot? 4K a month for the summer seems fair. What are you expecting? A full wage for 4 months of work?

Now you show your true colours. Obviously a float pilot is a waste of skin because it really takes no skill to land on water and take off from it. In fact flying a floatplane is done by monkeys. On the other hand flying in a twin engine turbine in IFR is much much much more difficult. It requires many hours of training and concentration and if your tired you can ask your partner beside you to take the wheel while you get yourself a coffee. Don't be too long though - he can only manage 10 minutes or less before he has eye strain from monitoring the auto pilot.....

There are skill sets within VFR floats/wheels/skis and there are skill sets in IFR. Don't compare the two as I am guessing you are not qualified too.

Now back to the subject at hand which you don't seem to get. The industry similar to every industry is driven by supply and demand as pointed out by someone else. The managers and owners know this and to better ourselves we should understand the workings of this economic model.

By accepting lower wages each time a cool job comes up, drives the wages down for the next guy and then drives the wages down generally. If you think a pilot is nothing and deserves nothing then you will only help all those managers and corporations to find pilots for less and less. Is this what you want? Or do you want a career where you can retire at a reasonable age with a nice bank account. You have answered this already by saying that a new first officer or pilot only deserves X dollars. Thanks you have just fucked all the new guys out of a well paying gig. Not only that, you have screwed it for the rest of us who are trying to stop wages from becoming less and less.

The best part of the low wages is that the owner of companies will cry the blues all the time when it comes to paying higher wages - Of course they will its their business. Cut costs make money....

Managers love guys like you - you help them save money. You stay the same and they get rich... thanks for the help


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buck82
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:24 pm 
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If you are going for such a short period, I would think/ask how many hours exactly you will be working. Most likely your duty day will exceed 12hrs, and since the company needs to earn its living in ten weeks you probably will get minimal days off, ergo 60 of 70days working? Now do the math; approx 720hrs duty time, and 8000gs for two months work.... breaks down to about 11 dollars and hour. How do you feel now? Oh and us beaver float drivers don't have FO's to help with cargo, auto pilot, or any other bells and whistles yadda yadda. How are your decision making skills when you are exhausted, sleep deprived, low on fuel and picking your way through shite weather? How much are you making again? I would ALWAYS have it spelt out in a contract what is expected of you before signing a monthly salary. If the company can't be forward enough to explain it all in writing, and pay a reasonable hourly rate... run. $25 to $30 and hour should be more in line with acceptable pay given with what will be left on your shoulders to deal with. This is a job right? Or are you getting a tax deduction for contributing to a charity? What would a helicopter pilot get payed to do the same job?

Oh and by the way for camp jobs in any other industry, you actually get payed EXTRA to be put up in camp.. imagine that! 100$+ a day just to be in camp and your meals are provided free!

Rant away


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who me ?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:09 pm 
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Well as the saying goes,.......

When you pay peanuts,......

You get Monkeys !


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DHCdriver
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:30 am 
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who me ? wrote:
Well as the saying goes,.......

When you pay peanuts,......

You get Monkeys !


Amen. DHC


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Rowdy
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:35 pm 
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Like has been posted previously.. 4k/month is a starting beaver driver wage, if it were further south AND had a longer season.

High arctic, short season, long honkin ferry trip at the start and the end.. That should garner a much higher wage. As Lost Lake mentioned, its quite unforgiving up there and requires someone with some solid float and coastal experience.

4k may sound good if you were paid that YEAR ROUND.. however.. most of the float ops are at the aboslute longest only running 5 months of the year. Thats only 25k and then you have to find something to do in the winter. 4k for ten weeks? Thats barely 10k.. and dont forget what the tax man taketh.. Now.. look at how thats going to play out as a daily wage.. assume it'll be a 6 day work week.. Thats only 160/day give or take.. How about hourly? Assume 14hr duty days more often then not and we look at just under 12/hr. Not the greatest..

As an example this season, I'm further south, guaranteed 2 weeks off mid season on top of the mandatory 30/90 day reqs, everything is covered from room and board to incidentals, I make considerably more per month on the beav, and have a 5 month season. Dont forget that there are tips in the lodge world too..


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DHCdriver
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:25 pm 
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Rowdy wrote:
Like has been posted previously.. 4k/month is a starting beaver driver wage, if it were further south AND had a longer season.

High arctic, short season, long honkin ferry trip at the start and the end.. That should garner a much higher wage. As Lost Lake mentioned, its quite unforgiving up there and requires someone with some solid float and coastal experience.

4k may sound good if you were paid that YEAR ROUND.. however.. most of the float ops are at the aboslute longest only running 5 months of the year. Thats only 25k and then you have to find something to do in the winter. 4k for ten weeks? Thats barely 10k.. and dont forget what the tax man taketh.. Now.. look at how thats going to play out as a daily wage.. assume it'll be a 6 day work week.. Thats only 160/day give or take.. How about hourly? Assume 14hr duty days more often then not and we look at just under 12/hr. Not the greatest..

As an example this season, I'm further south, guaranteed 2 weeks off mid season on top of the mandatory 30/90 day reqs, everything is covered from room and board to incidentals, I make considerably more per month on the beav, and have a 5 month season. Dont forget that there are tips in the lodge world too..


Right on the money Rowdy. During my float days on the beaver I was 5500/mnth, and that was 13 years ago. I just don't understand why these operators can't pay their guys a descent wage, especially if they want them to come back year after year. These guys make a living with that 5-6 month income why can't the pilot? It just boils down to they know someone will come along and fill that spot that will get the job done. As long as you keep the insurance guy happy with your time the lowest bidder gets the job. Its a sad world we live in here. Happy flying DHC


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