Canjet hiring FO's

[guest737]

I received a email this morning from workopolis
http://www.workopolis.com/EN/job/13180844?uc=E0
along with
http://www.workopolis.com/EN/job/13180472?uc=E0
and lastly
http://www.workopolis.com/EN/job/13180502?uc=E0

I work at Canjet and am disgusted at the constant foreign contract pilots that are repeatedly hired. I would encourage anyone looking for work to apply.
The requirements Canjet has requested are not even met my some of our current FO's.

[sanjet]

They've done this before. Put up posting looking for "type rated" 737 pilots in canada. After a few weeks, technically they will not "find qualified" pilots and they'll hire overseas employees with ratings once they can prove they can't find "qualified" pilots in Canada. EI Canada gives the ok and supplies the working permits and life is good

[Gino Under]

Workopolis???
What would they know about pilot recruitment???
Is it normal for CJ and others to hand their advertising over to outfits like Workopolis? Does that strategy really work? Workopolis is the last place, NO, in fact I'd never think to look there for a pilot job. Seriously???
What does CJ's HR department do?
Another curiosity of mine, in the old days, pilots usually told friends when their company was recruiting, applications followed suit and interviews were conducted. A simple phone call to a buddy and budda boom budda bing!
Has that method broken down?
Who am I to judge, but from my perch, if you, Mr. Canadian Pilot, tried to get into a U.S. airline without the right of abode, ALPA would be all over it like a fumbled football.
ALPA airlines in the States rarely use 'contract' (if ever) type rated pilots from overseas to answer the call.
It seems like the ALPA members at CJ (where some of your friends and my friends work) haven't got the spine to hold Ken Rowe's hiring practices to account.
If I know there are qualified pilots out here that are still available then you know the same to be true.
In my assessment, good old fashioned Canadian apathy will win the day with this one and CJ will find 'contractors' from Europe or elsewhere.

As for me, I know I'm apathetic about it cuz je nais give a shit pas!!! Really.
Let the affected young uns carry that cross...or not.

Gino Under

[ahramin]

Gino, at one point Westjet's application process was through workopolis.

In this case the company isn't looking for pilots, it's looking to demonstrate that there are no pilots looking for work in Canada so that they can hire foreign pilots.

The problem with hiring off the old boy network is that you often end up hiring more of the old boys, and missing out on the best candidates.

[DaveP]

Workopolis is simply the service used to organize and accept the applicants. The canjet hr dept. still sifts through the applicants and chooses who they hire/interview. Woropolis does have some addition screen questions that assist in matrix scoring as well. It does so by assigning a percentage score to the left of each applicant.

Cheers.

[Gino Under]

ahramin

"The problem with hiring off the old boy network is that you often end up hiring more of the old boys, and missing out on the best candidates."

You may be onto something.
Assuming you know something about the West Jet pilot hiring process then, how does their 'internal reference' thing work when hiring the best candidates? Because, I'm convinced they only hire the best. Maybe Canjet should use a similar approach to fill these 4 slots? But, isn't that the same as "the old boy network"??? I was sure Air Canada hired only the best. I occasionally fly on other carriers who, hopefully, also hire only the best. So what's left for the other players?

You know, I always chuckle when I read posts that use the "best candidates" line or when I read in airline recruiting ads (propaganda) that "we only hire the best pilots". Yeah? Well, if you only hire the best pilots, who the fu*k do the other guys hire??? I don't want to fly with airlines that only hires the bad pilots. WTF is going on here?

It's getting silly out there and that can't be good.
Gino Under

[ahramin]

Gino, I think that in the case of Westjet they have a large enough hiring pool anyway that the advantages in recommends may be greater than the disadvantages.

"We only hire the best" is more of a marketing statement than a factual one. Just meant to encourage candidates. It's a common hiring tactic in all industries, often used by #2 or 3 companies in their field to try to convince people that it's better to work for them than the #1 company. Make it sound like it's really hard to get hired, then when you hire them, they are loyal right off the bat because they made it.

The biggest problem is the corporate operations where the hiring is about contacts and personality and has nothing to do with knowledge and professionalism. You often end up with a pilot pool completely unable to deal with any changes to the operation.

[Gino Under]

ahramin

It sounds like we're on the same page.
Personally, I think WJ has found a hiring balance but I would have no 'inside' reason to make that statement other than my personal experience as a WJ pax. What goes on in the pointy end is truly where the assessment of 'best' can best be made.

I'm excited to see practically all Canadian airlines recruiting pilots and only wish those seeking to join ANY of them the best of luck. When the history of CJ is what it is, I digress into sarcasm and ridicule.

It IS what it IS.

Cheers
Gino

[guest737]

Its horrible to see Canjet would prefer to hire foreign Captains instead than upgrade their current FO's that have been with the company for years. I don't understand why ALPA isn't putting up a fight. Also how can Service Canada permit work visa's to foreign pilots when there are unemployed pilots withing its own borders.
Its a sad day in Canadian aviation when something so unjust and morally disturbing affects us all and we don't stand together to protect our profession

[buzzjob]

Actually Canjet filled all Captain positions last winter (and will be doing the same this year) from within. We hired and trained permanent positions all last summer/fall (all canadian, mostly very experienced guys) and will be doing the same this year. These are permanent (not foreign contract) positions. You do not need a type rating, but if you have it...likely will get hired first.

Why don't we switch to Sunwing's foreign hiring practices, any new upgrades there this year??

[whipline]

Did anyone read the ad on workopolis? Looks to me like CJ is hiring 4 full-time Canadian first officers? How is this a bad thing?

[Wheels]

Also there are currently a dozen or so Canjet FO's, and Captains working over seas for a German operator this summer and apparently all Captain positions next winter season will be filled from within (upgrades)......

[yycflyguy]

http://www.collegeofpilots.ca/

[richardhead]

Everybody forgets. It's a business. Charter work is predominantly seasonal. Our season is the winter, Europes is the summer. For years now pilots from Europe come here and our pilots go there. It's smart. That is unless your a pilot. Pilots only care about a few things. Flying, getting a job at an airline and then working as few days as possible for the maximum pay. If charter companies hired Canadians to cover all their flying, then they would end up laying guys off every year for 5 or 6 months. So, nobody including the government wants people sucking money out of the system every year just so Johnny 1900 can fly a jet. This way fewer seats yes. But always occupado. Further, for those of you who are suckin the Westjet dick. And I mean that in the nicest possible way. When they started out they wanted a minimum of 5000 hrs. So much like the agreements in force today, when there weren't enough qualified people. They had foreign pilots working for them. Hmmm. Oh as for Guest737. Can anyone guess who either failed or was passed over for an upgrade?
Y'all have a nice day.

[CAL]

oh boy

[True North]

Everybody forgets. It's a business. Charter work is predominantly seasonal. Our season is the winter, Europes is the summer. For years now pilots from Europe come here and our pilots go there. It's smart. That is unless your a pilot. Pilots only care about a few things. Flying, getting a job at an airline and then working as few days as possible for the maximum pay. If charter companies hired Canadians to cover all their flying, then they would end up laying guys off every year for 5 or 6 months. So, nobody including the government wants people sucking money out of the system every year just so Johnny 1900 can fly a jet. This way fewer seats yes. But always occupado. Further, for those of you who are suckin the Westjet dick. And I mean that in the nicest possible way. When they started out they wanted a minimum of 5000 hrs. So much like the agreements in force today, when there weren't enough qualified people. They had foreign pilots working for them. Hmmm. Oh as for Guest737. Can anyone guess who either failed or was passed over for an upgrade?
Y'all have a nice day.

First rule of internet chat - don't drink and post.

[Fr8 dawg]

I'm not sure what their deal is, but just as food for thought, I've heard of and know myself at least 5 or 6 captains and Fo's with thousands of hours on 737s who have applied for those positions but never heard anything from canjet.
I mean, they weren't even interviewed.
So must of us don't know how this show works in reality but I'm pretty sure it all comes down to the bottom line....it's all business and as you read this a few canjet guys are flying out of Germany.

[Wheels]

My buddy just got hired at CJ and he didn't have any Jet time...

[Panama Jack]

My buddy just got hired at CJ and he didn't have any Jet time...

Yeah, the German guy, right?

[ng78]

My buddy just got hired at CJ and he didn't have any Jet time...

Yeah, the German guy, right?

I know two guys that were just hired by Canjet for the YUL base, starting at the end of the month. One without any jet time (maybe the same guy?) and another with lots of jet time, previously from a now defunct Canadian charter airline. Nice to see this opportunity for some Canadian pilots!

[YYZatcboy]

Hey NG78,

Anyone I might know as well?

[Wheels]

If you've eaten breakfast at the Daigle Motel in St. Leonard over 100 times or know where Charlo is.... you are probably a good candidate.

[buzzjob]

Not likely. A few guys leaving likely means more permanent slots.

[gonnabeapilot]

Actually Canjet filled all Captain positions last winter (and will be doing the same this year) from within. We hired and trained permanent positions all last summer/fall (all canadian, mostly very experienced guys) and will be doing the same this year. These are permanent (not foreign contract) positions. You do not need a type rating, but if you have it...likely will get hired first.

Why don't we switch to Sunwing's foreign hiring practices, any new upgrades there this year??

Sixteen permanent upgrades in time for the fall. Sunwing is also in the middle of running a groundschool with 11 new hires and the rumour is another new-hire groundschool of 10 will be run in the fall.

I appreciate your attempt to deflect the attention away from Canjet however the fact of the matter is both companies are guilty of taking advantage of the foreign pilot situation. If I'm not mistaken, this is the very first year where Canjet has actually placed crews over-seas creating some sort of reciprocal deal with the foreign contract pilots. For the last few years it has simply been foreign pilots benefitting with seasonal work and the lack of a reciprocal deal has meant that Canadian pilots have missed out on the opportunity for year round work.... That isn't right. I would also like to ask you what the ratio is between the number of Canjet pilots working overseas this summer compared to the number of foreign pilots who were working in Canada last year? If it is less than 1:1 that is also not right.

In the past, Sunwing has been the lesser of two evils as it has always made sure that the number of foreign crews brought over in the winter matched the number of Canadian crews heading over-seas in the summer. (In fact, there were a few years where the scales were tipped in favour of Canadian pilots as more Canadians were sent over-seas in the summer than there were foreign pilots brought over in the winter). That being said, last year things took a turn for the worse and unfortunately this next winter season will be no different. There are now a lot more foreign pilots who will be working for Sunwing than there will be Sunwing pilots working over-seas in the summer.... this is also not right.

Sadly, it seems that the pilot groups at both Canjet and Sunwing haven't been able to enforce a true 1:1 reciprocal agrement when it comes to the use of foreign crews. Maybe things will be able to be changed when both groups re-negotiate their contracts... but I doubt it. Personally, I think that the solution is for both groups to join sides with ACPA and Transat's pilot group in lobbying the government into changing the law so that the only way foreign contract crews are allowed to be used is if an identical number of Canadian pilots are able to work over-seas in the off season. Until this happens, both companies will try their best to increase the use of foreign contract crews because, let's face it, it is the cheapest source of labour out-there. Unfortunately, that means that we'll continue down the slippery slope and pressure will be placed on the pilots of Westjet, AC and Transat to try and match the cost structure that Canjet and Sunwing are able to maintain with the use of foreign crews. We need to recognize that it shouldn't be an us vs them scenario and stop the finger pointing... This issue impacts every pilot in Canada and we all need to work together to make sure that the balance is tipped back in our favour.

[confuzed]

Why do people always assume that foreign pilots are cheaper than local people?? Do you have Bona Fide proof of this?? Where are your numbers?? Do you really think that European pilots would come to Canada to make the same amount of money as we do?? That in itself is a hilarious notion.