If the agents and their unions strike, and AC "continues" operations, what's the deal with all the other employees and separate unions?
If you're a pilot, mechanic, flight attendant, etc. do you continue work as normal, or is it optional to work while fellow employees are striking? Or do you join them on the picket line?
What about the separate providers to AC, such as Skyregional, EVAS, CMA, Gerogian etc., any changes for them?
In a nutshell, is there an unwritten ethical or moral expectation towards the non-striking portion of AC employees regarding work during the strike, or would this be strictly limited to the union employees on strike?
If there is a strike....
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MackTheKnife
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Re: If there is a strike....
Oscar wrote:If the agents and their unions strike, and AC "continues" operations, what's the deal with all the other employees and separate unions?
If you're a pilot, mechanic, flight attendant, etc. do you continue work as normal, or is it optional to work while fellow employees are striking? Or do you join them on the picket line?
What about the separate providers to AC, such as Skyregional, EVAS, CMA, Gerogian etc., any changes for them?
In a nutshell, is there an unwritten ethical or moral expectation towards the non-striking portion of AC employees regarding work during the strike, or would this be strictly limited to the union employees on strike?
In theory there are all sorts of ethical and moral expectations but the reality is, if you don't work, you don't get paid. In all previous stikes ACPA has told the pilots they have to work . Some will book off sick in a show of support (while getting paid mind you) while some will take drafts. One thing you won't see is an individual putting their azz on the line for ethical or moral reasons.
Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it !!!
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Johnny Mapleleaf
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Re: If there is a strike....
Most of the pilots at Air Canada were not even working for the airline during the last strike of the Sales / Reservations workers. I was. I recall that we had senior Flight Ops managers (our supervisors) checking-in passengers at the gates. The management employees for several other departments as well as anyone that had a security pass worked the gates. The replacement workers, without a security pass worked the check-in in the main terminal.
There were lots of glitches, lots of delays, lots of misconnections and some flight cancellations. But the airline continued on.
Word is that Air Canada has been hiring, borrowing, training and otherwise acquiring replacement workers for several weeks now. The strike will test the system, but the system will carry on, if the past is any guide.
By the way... I am informed that there is no legal tolerance in Canada for what is known as "secondary picketing." Which means that if you are not on strike, you are required to fulfill all of the requirements of your job, and if that means crossing the picket lines of other unions who are legally on strike, then that is what you are legally required to do. If you refuse to cross a picket line, it is you who will be held accountable.
There were lots of glitches, lots of delays, lots of misconnections and some flight cancellations. But the airline continued on.
Word is that Air Canada has been hiring, borrowing, training and otherwise acquiring replacement workers for several weeks now. The strike will test the system, but the system will carry on, if the past is any guide.
By the way... I am informed that there is no legal tolerance in Canada for what is known as "secondary picketing." Which means that if you are not on strike, you are required to fulfill all of the requirements of your job, and if that means crossing the picket lines of other unions who are legally on strike, then that is what you are legally required to do. If you refuse to cross a picket line, it is you who will be held accountable.
Re: If there is a strike....
True, but there is nothing wrong with taking "time" to carefully do your walk around or do another one just to be sure you inspected that oil slick on the ground....or check the weather.....or double check your FMS inputs before you go? Right? 
Ramp guys are already do it, because they are negotiating after CAW and guess what....they will need support from other AC employees. Just like F/A will need when their turn comes and just like pilots will need when their turn comes
Ramp guys are already do it, because they are negotiating after CAW and guess what....they will need support from other AC employees. Just like F/A will need when their turn comes and just like pilots will need when their turn comes
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Norwegianwood
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Re: If there is a strike....
You are kidding right?Mig29 wrote: just like pilots will need when their turn comes
Pilots can't even support each other..............
Re: If there is a strike....
Yep, recieved an email from our MEC the other day, reminding us of our obligation to continue working and that we are expected to cross the picket line. They also mentioned that if you feel unsafe while doing so, retreat and inform the company, then it's upto them to find a safe way to get you to work.
"Stand-by, I'm inverted"
Re: If there is a strike....
Just reposting from the General Forum...thought it would be a good place for you to read this:
Stormy Skies for Canada's Middle Class
First Posted: Jun 11 2011 11:14 AM
The possible strike at Air Canada reflects a larger tension in our economy.
The Canadian middle class is in crisis. Each year, its share of our national income shrinks, relative to that of the richest few. Recent reports show Canada’s wealthiest one per cent accounted for 32 per cent of all income growth between 1997 and 2007 – the most in recorded history. Thanks to skyrocketing executive compensation levels and an aggressive attack on well-paid, family-supporting jobs, the gap between the rich and the rest of us grows ever wider.
Latest news: Air Canada Union Serves Strike Notice
Nothing epitomizes this situation more than the recent history of Air Canada. In the last decade, Canada's national carrier has suffered unprecedented financial turbulence, including run-ins with bankruptcy protection. According to the Canadian Auto Workers’ internal research, over the same period Air Canada's CEO at the time, Robert Milton, pocketed $86 million – while thousands of front-line employees were forced to take cuts, to the tune of about $10,000 per year, including an erosion of real wages, lost vacation, paid lunch breaks and other benefits.
Air Canada workers made major sacrifices. The company plowed ahead with plans to do more with less. Work intensified and productivity skyrocketed. Measured in seat miles delivered per employee, labour productivity at Air Canada jumped 75 per cent. Yet many who had earned a good (albeit modest) salary saw their quality of life and working conditions decline.
This storyline has played out in too many workplaces across Canada. “Good” jobs are on the wane, in all sectors – whether in factories, service shops, office buildings, or among the professional classes. Many have come to accept the logic that jobs in the “new economy” are inherently insecure. Pension plans exist only in fairy tales, and personal sacrifice has become the new norm. We accept the mantra that the next generation of workers will be worse off, and assume they simply aren’t in a position to demand better.
This attitude must change – for everyone’s benefit. The squeezing out of Canada’s middle class has major implications for our collective prosperity. Middle-class incomes drive economic growth, pay for public services, support healthy families, and build communities. Society cannot subsist on crumbs left over by the rich. Workers cannot accept the logic that relentless cuts and constant sacrifice will bring better days ahead.
Air Canada employees have already drawn a line in the sand during their current contract talks. They’ve resolved to make up ground on lost wages. They’ve rejected a program of two-tiering, which would make second-class workers of future generations. And in a recent show of solidarity, the CAW, the Canadian Union of Public Employees, and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (three unions representing the lion’s share of Air Canada employees) rejected a company proposal to undercut and eventually eliminate the current defined benefit pension plan. By saying “no” to these demands, Air Canada employees are facing down the corporate-led riptide that’s pushing Canada’s middle class to the brink.
With the company’s return to profitability in 2010 and a brighter future on the horizon, Air Canada’s demands for more cuts, fewer full-time jobs, and outsourcing appear baseless. It’s made worse by CEO Calin Rovinescu’s hefty 76 per cent pay hike that landed him $4.55 million in compensation last year, a defined benefit pension that would pay him $351,000 per year at age 65, and a $5 million retention bonus he would be paid just for staying on the job until March 2012. His insistence that workers accept less reeks of hypocrisy.
Not surprisingly, the frustration and anger among Air Canada employees is reaching a breaking point. Demonstrations have been taking place in communities across Canada, with impressive turnouts. CAW members recently voted 98 per cent in favour of strike action, as a last resort. They know that what’s at stake in these negotiations goes far beyond their own self-interest.
Air Canada is recognized as a world-class carrier and has received dozens of awards for quality service, largely because of its hard-working employees. It’s time they receive their fair share.
The Air Canada battle is a principled fight about fairness and justice. It’s about reclaiming workers’ rights to good jobs, as well as our collective ability to demand better from employers and government. It’s about closing that ever-widening wealth gap and strengthening the middle class, for all Canadians.
http://www.themarknews.com/articles/558 ... ddle-class
Stormy Skies for Canada's Middle Class
First Posted: Jun 11 2011 11:14 AM
The possible strike at Air Canada reflects a larger tension in our economy.
The Canadian middle class is in crisis. Each year, its share of our national income shrinks, relative to that of the richest few. Recent reports show Canada’s wealthiest one per cent accounted for 32 per cent of all income growth between 1997 and 2007 – the most in recorded history. Thanks to skyrocketing executive compensation levels and an aggressive attack on well-paid, family-supporting jobs, the gap between the rich and the rest of us grows ever wider.
Latest news: Air Canada Union Serves Strike Notice
Nothing epitomizes this situation more than the recent history of Air Canada. In the last decade, Canada's national carrier has suffered unprecedented financial turbulence, including run-ins with bankruptcy protection. According to the Canadian Auto Workers’ internal research, over the same period Air Canada's CEO at the time, Robert Milton, pocketed $86 million – while thousands of front-line employees were forced to take cuts, to the tune of about $10,000 per year, including an erosion of real wages, lost vacation, paid lunch breaks and other benefits.
Air Canada workers made major sacrifices. The company plowed ahead with plans to do more with less. Work intensified and productivity skyrocketed. Measured in seat miles delivered per employee, labour productivity at Air Canada jumped 75 per cent. Yet many who had earned a good (albeit modest) salary saw their quality of life and working conditions decline.
This storyline has played out in too many workplaces across Canada. “Good” jobs are on the wane, in all sectors – whether in factories, service shops, office buildings, or among the professional classes. Many have come to accept the logic that jobs in the “new economy” are inherently insecure. Pension plans exist only in fairy tales, and personal sacrifice has become the new norm. We accept the mantra that the next generation of workers will be worse off, and assume they simply aren’t in a position to demand better.
This attitude must change – for everyone’s benefit. The squeezing out of Canada’s middle class has major implications for our collective prosperity. Middle-class incomes drive economic growth, pay for public services, support healthy families, and build communities. Society cannot subsist on crumbs left over by the rich. Workers cannot accept the logic that relentless cuts and constant sacrifice will bring better days ahead.
Air Canada employees have already drawn a line in the sand during their current contract talks. They’ve resolved to make up ground on lost wages. They’ve rejected a program of two-tiering, which would make second-class workers of future generations. And in a recent show of solidarity, the CAW, the Canadian Union of Public Employees, and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (three unions representing the lion’s share of Air Canada employees) rejected a company proposal to undercut and eventually eliminate the current defined benefit pension plan. By saying “no” to these demands, Air Canada employees are facing down the corporate-led riptide that’s pushing Canada’s middle class to the brink.
With the company’s return to profitability in 2010 and a brighter future on the horizon, Air Canada’s demands for more cuts, fewer full-time jobs, and outsourcing appear baseless. It’s made worse by CEO Calin Rovinescu’s hefty 76 per cent pay hike that landed him $4.55 million in compensation last year, a defined benefit pension that would pay him $351,000 per year at age 65, and a $5 million retention bonus he would be paid just for staying on the job until March 2012. His insistence that workers accept less reeks of hypocrisy.
Not surprisingly, the frustration and anger among Air Canada employees is reaching a breaking point. Demonstrations have been taking place in communities across Canada, with impressive turnouts. CAW members recently voted 98 per cent in favour of strike action, as a last resort. They know that what’s at stake in these negotiations goes far beyond their own self-interest.
Air Canada is recognized as a world-class carrier and has received dozens of awards for quality service, largely because of its hard-working employees. It’s time they receive their fair share.
The Air Canada battle is a principled fight about fairness and justice. It’s about reclaiming workers’ rights to good jobs, as well as our collective ability to demand better from employers and government. It’s about closing that ever-widening wealth gap and strengthening the middle class, for all Canadians.
http://www.themarknews.com/articles/558 ... ddle-class
Re: If there is a strike....
Great article. I hope all the union bashing morons posting comments online over at the Globe and Mail read this. I can't believe how many middle class people have their head in the sand and sympathize with these corporations and CEO's. The unions aren't holding the corporations hostage, it's the other way around. Unions have never been more relevant in a world of multi- billion dollar corporations whose only mandate is profit.
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CanadianEh
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- Location: YYZ
Re: If there is a strike....
I agree with your point 100% Stinky.Stinky wrote:Great article. I hope all the union bashing morons posting comments online over at the Globe and Mail read this. I can't believe how many middle class people have their head in the sand and sympathize with these corporations and CEO's. The unions aren't holding the corporations hostage, it's the other way around. Unions have never been more relevant in a world of multi- billion dollar corporations whose only mandate is profit.
However, if I may play devil's advocate for a moment, in some industries where the potential to outsource is available (Ie: Auto industry and manufacturing), how can our corporations be competitive globally?
That's the billion $ question.
If I can have workers in China manufacturing my widgets for a fraction of the price of Canadian workers, all else being the same it would be more cost effective than keeping the jobs in Canada.
This is a significant issue that has been getting worse and worse and started in the U.S. due to rampant capitalism. The irony is that through capitalism they basically destroyed their own economy, but the richest 1% are happier than ever!
The funny thing about aviation is that North America is the China of aviation with respect to wages. Supply and demand.
Re: If there is a strike....
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... trike.html
News reports that Pilots and F/A in YUL have refused to cross the lines initially, however they resumed operations later on in the morning. Looks likes the operations are slowing down but it's going to be interesting how this all turns out. If ramp guys walk then it's going to be a mess as the company will have a hard time replacing them, as they are trying to do with agents.
And if either pilot's or fa's walk then it's a ground halt for sure!
News reports that Pilots and F/A in YUL have refused to cross the lines initially, however they resumed operations later on in the morning. Looks likes the operations are slowing down but it's going to be interesting how this all turns out. If ramp guys walk then it's going to be a mess as the company will have a hard time replacing them, as they are trying to do with agents.
And if either pilot's or fa's walk then it's a ground halt for sure!
Re: If there is a strike....
Growing Government (Socialism and entitlements) and monetizing the debt is what is destroying the US economy. Freddy Mac and Fanny May run by Democrats ruined the US Economy and housing market.CanadianEh wrote: This is a significant issue that has been getting worse and worse and started in the U.S. due to rampant capitalism. The irony is that through capitalism they basically destroyed their own economy, but the richest 1% are happier than ever!
Re: If there is a strike....
The middle class is under attack.
We’ve heard this time and time again, yet people do nothing about it. Inflation and taxes are on the rise, salaries are (and have been for decades) flat, in not in decline. The division between rich and poor widens, with more and more middle class sliding into poverty.
Why is this you ask? Greed, and apathy on our part. People are sheep, and for the most part are to damn stupid to see the wolf walking up to them. They just want to be led by someone who will tell you everything is alright, to a Bob Marley tune.
We watch the evening news with rapt attention, watch our elected officials waste hundreds of millions of (YOUR) tax payer dollars, yet we do nothing about it. I know it’s a depressing thought, getting screwed by the people you voted in. Why not change the channel and watch E talk daily: everything is gonna be alright.
Politicians can’t keep their hands out of the cookie jar. CEO’s give themselves exponential pay increases / bonuses for barely keeping a company out of bankruptcy and what do we do? Change the channel.
Why not just paint a bull’s-eye on your ass, bend over, grab your ankles and ring the dinner bell.
Personally I applaud the AC and Canada post employees standing up for themselves and demanding change.
We all could learn a lesson. Or just change the channel, it’s your choice.
We’ve heard this time and time again, yet people do nothing about it. Inflation and taxes are on the rise, salaries are (and have been for decades) flat, in not in decline. The division between rich and poor widens, with more and more middle class sliding into poverty.
Why is this you ask? Greed, and apathy on our part. People are sheep, and for the most part are to damn stupid to see the wolf walking up to them. They just want to be led by someone who will tell you everything is alright, to a Bob Marley tune.
We watch the evening news with rapt attention, watch our elected officials waste hundreds of millions of (YOUR) tax payer dollars, yet we do nothing about it. I know it’s a depressing thought, getting screwed by the people you voted in. Why not change the channel and watch E talk daily: everything is gonna be alright.
Politicians can’t keep their hands out of the cookie jar. CEO’s give themselves exponential pay increases / bonuses for barely keeping a company out of bankruptcy and what do we do? Change the channel.
Why not just paint a bull’s-eye on your ass, bend over, grab your ankles and ring the dinner bell.
Personally I applaud the AC and Canada post employees standing up for themselves and demanding change.
We all could learn a lesson. Or just change the channel, it’s your choice.
Last edited by KAG on Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Re: If there is a strike....
Was planning on going away using my passes. What do you guys think? I know it says its we are advised to postpone travel on the company travel site. Was planning on Europe, but don't want to get stuck there. Any advice?
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CanadianEh
- Rank 7
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- Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:00 pm
- Location: YYZ
Re: If there is a strike....
That is half right... I would call George Bush's reign "growing socialism" as he sanctioned some of the largest tax cuts in U.S. history adding $2.6 trillion to the deficit. If you can't admit that capitalism is a major reason for the U.S. situation then you are sadly misinformed.vic777 wrote:Growing Government (Socialism and entitlements) and monetizing the debt is what is destroying the US economy. Freddy Mac and Fanny May run by Democrats ruined the US Economy and housing market.CanadianEh wrote: This is a significant issue that has been getting worse and worse and started in the U.S. due to rampant capitalism. The irony is that through capitalism they basically destroyed their own economy, but the richest 1% are happier than ever!
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CanadianEh
- Rank 7
- Posts: 564
- Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:00 pm
- Location: YYZ
Re: If there is a strike....
+1, couldn't have said it better myself.KAG wrote:The middle class is under attack.
We’ve heard this time and time again, yet people do nothing about it. Inflation and taxes are on the rise, salaries are (and have been for decades) flat, in not in decline. The division between rich and poor widens, with more and more middle class sliding into poverty.
Why is this you ask? Greed, and apathy on our part. People are sheep, and for the most part are to damn stupid to see the wolf walking up to them. They just want to be led by someone who will tell you everything is alright, to a Bob Marley tune.
We watch the evening news with rapt attention, watch our elected officials waste hundreds of millions of (YOUR) tax payer dollars, yet we do nothing about it. I know it’s a depressing thought, getting screwed by the people you voted in. Why not change the channel and watch E talk daily: everything is gonna be alright.
Politicians can’t keep their hands out of the cookie jar. CEO’s give themselves exponential pay increases / bonuses for barely keeping a company out of bankruptcy and what do we do? Change the channel.
Why not just paint a bull’s-eye on your ass, bend over, grab your ankles and ring the diner bell.
Personally I applaud the AC and Canada post employees standing up for themselves and demanding change.
We all could learn a lesson. Or just change the channel, it’s your choice.
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flightster
- Rank 0
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:19 am
Re: If there is a strike....
Just be mindful, I have already received reports that Corporate Security is taking pictures and videotaping any and everyone who is not a CAW member but who is walking/picketing with them for possible lawsuits. Just like the lawsuit that the company has brought forward against the IAM local in YUL with regards to the incident that occurred last month. But it's very nice to see some of the pilots and maintenance/ramp employee's walking and supporting the CAW, while on their unpaid luch period of course. LOLIf the agents and their unions strike, and AC "continues" operations, what's the deal with all the other employees and separate unions?
If you're a pilot, mechanic, flight attendant, etc. do you continue work as normal, or is it optional to work while fellow employees are striking? Or do you join them on the picket line?
What about the separate providers to AC, such as Skyregional, EVAS, CMA, Gerogian etc., any changes for them?
In a nutshell, is there an unwritten ethical or moral expectation towards the non-striking portion of AC employees regarding work during the strike, or would this be strictly limited to the union employees on strike?
Flightster
Re: If there is a strike....
Please remember that while the other unions may support the CAW in principle, we are not on strike and as such are legally required to report to work.
Re: If there is a strike....
+ 1KAG wrote:The middle class is under attack.
We’ve heard this time and time again, yet people do nothing about it. Inflation and taxes are on the rise, salaries are (and have been for decades) flat, in not in decline. The division between rich and poor widens, with more and more middle class sliding into poverty.
Why is this you ask? Greed, and apathy on our part. People are sheep, and for the most part are to damn stupid to see the wolf walking up to them. They just want to be led by someone who will tell you everything is alright, to a Bob Marley tune.
We watch the evening news with rapt attention, watch our elected officials waste hundreds of millions of (YOUR) tax payer dollars, yet we do nothing about it. I know it’s a depressing thought, getting screwed by the people you voted in. Why not change the channel and watch E talk daily: everything is gonna be alright.
Politicians can’t keep their hands out of the cookie jar. CEO’s give themselves exponential pay increases / bonuses for barely keeping a company out of bankruptcy and what do we do? Change the channel.
Why not just paint a bull’s-eye on your ass, bend over, grab your ankles and ring the dinner bell.
Personally I applaud the AC and Canada post employees standing up for themselves and demanding change.
We all could learn a lesson. Or just change the channel, it’s your choice.
You nailed it Stewie!!
