LCC

[crj_705]

Have been hearing rumblings about ALPA (Jazz) preparing a business case and presenting it to Calin and the AC Board to operate the LCC. Anyone have any info?

[Big Pistons Forever]

Have been hearing rumblings about ALPA (Jazz) preparing a business case and presenting it to Calin and the AC Board to operate the LCC. Anyone have any info?

[vortac]

What have you been

[TKTguy]

Now we're stirring the pot.

[mbav8r]

I heard it the other way, Calin approached Joe with his plan to have Jazz operate the LCC

[rudder]

While it is clear that Jazz has now successfully demonstrated that it is capable of large aircraft international operations (with ETOPS certification expected in spring 2012), the suggestion that AC would derive any benefit from Jazz operating the LCC is indicative of a misunderstanding of the purpose of an LCC operation at AC.

An LCC at AC allows AC to spread its own fixed costs over a larger operational and revenue base. It aslo allows for more efficient allocation of existing resources. And from an industrial perspective, it will allow AC a beach head of a B-scale which will be used in the future to whip the A-scalers that thought that it would never affect them.

CR's proposal for an LCC at AC, if it ever sees the light of day, will not involve Jazz.

[Franky Jr]

LOL, Nice made up rumour. Leave it alone.

[teacher]

If any company were to fly the LCC it would be Sky Regional.

[Scuba_Steve]

While anything can happen in this industry I can't see this particular scenario playing out.

I thought we were trying to get away from being dependent on the AC teet? Now latch on for more!!

Cheers

[BingBong]

Sad....but true....lol I slay me

[teacher]

AWESOME!

[JZA]

The boys at ACPA had their chance to do the LCC flying...Air Canada isn't going to wait forever for this divided and disjointed group of pilots to get it together.

[DH772]

Aside from the fact that I find this highly unlikely, giving an LCC to another airline is just driving the industry lower. On that logic why not give all jazz CPA flying to sky regional and Georgian? Oh wait, that is happening. Even if ACPA did agree to the LCC and I can guarantee they would still be paid better then any jazz driver if jazz were given opportunity. Sorry but that work should stay over there! just one pilots opinion though

[rudder]

The boys at ACPA had their chance to do the LCC flying...Air Canada isn't going to wait forever for this divided and disjointed group of pilots to get it together.

Jazz will be doing the AC LCC work at about the same time that it is doing the EMB work. In other words, never. The only way that Jazz pilots will find themslves in the flight deck on an AC LCC flight or AC EMB flight is if the pilot groups and the employers finally realise that status quo is not sustainable and there are more creative solutions that will provide increased job security and greater return for the shareholders. But I am not holding my breath.

[Plim Sole]

The LCC flying would be done under the banner of a different company which would allow a workaround on scope. Also, say bye bye to the ACV flying as that is a separate company and I'm sure CR can find someone cheaper than ACPA to fill the flight deck.
I wouldn't be so sure about the EMB. I'm sure ACPA would do anything to get the 787 and keep the DB pension.
CR has you firmly in his sights and is slowly squeezing the trigger!

But hey, best of luck at the table!

[teacher]

We can try but lets be realistic here. As always us pilots act like we have a say in the way our airlines are run, what airplanes we fly and what routes we do. We can have a say in our WACON but the way the airline is run is out of our hands unless we quit the line and join management. We should stop being nuts and focus on what we can change rather than pissing in the wind and trying to stop what we can't.

[Jastapilot]

Divide and Conquer, baby. Union busting at it's finest.

[DH772]

+ 1 to teacher comment

I don't understand why people are so intent of having this scenario play out. This type of flying is Air Canada's flying. Not jazz. nor sky regional. And jazz flying should be jazz flying only. We are all working to keep the same airlines in business. If you want LCC or heavy flying then go join Air Canada and not hope to accept work because you are able to do it at a cheaper cost.

Don't mean to rant here, but jazz pilots are very hypocritical. They will sit here and complain that AC is giving our flying to Sky Regional and beyond, and yet at the same time they are hoping that AC's flying (aka EMB's and LCC) will come to jazz. Does nobody see anything wrong with this picture? We truly are our own worst enemy.

[Plim Sole]

I Hear you guys but fun as it is to stir the pot, the simple fact
Is that with the modern business style it only belongs to AC if that is what CR wants. If he can get it done for 100 mil a year less then so be it.
It's not about pandering to employees, it's about flt ops actually making a profit.
IMO, CR will do whatever it takes to make AC viable in the long term. If that means ripping ACPAs flying apart he will not hesitate to do so.

I don't condone it but I'll change with the times to make it work.

[TopperHarley]

We can try but lets be realistic here. As always us pilots act like we have a say in the way our airlines are run, what airplanes we fly and what routes we do. We can have a say in our WACON but the way the airline is run is out of our hands unless we quit the line and join management. We should stop being nuts and focus on what we can change rather than pissing in the wind and trying to stop what we can't.

So by this logic, people should stop accusing ACPA for the "race to the bottom" with SkyRegional and other tiered CPA providers. The blame should be on management, not the pilot group.

Sadly, it's always the pilots who are at each others throats and accuse one another of threatening each others WACONs.

[Plim Sole]

Exactly! Management puts it's individual unions in a position where they have to fight, therefore creating a race to the bottom. Is either side at fault? Not really, management is trying to fulfill it's obligations to the board and shareholders and the unions are agreeing to take a rung lower on the ladder to keep the work.
It's catch 22 really.

BTW Topper, your avatar looks nothing like you!

[teacher]

So by this logic, people should stop accusing ACPA for the "race to the bottom" with SkyRegional and other tiered CPA providers. The blame should be on management, not the pilot group.

Sadly, it's always the pilots who are at each others throats and accuse one another of threatening each others WACONs.

Well therein lies the debate. Had ACPA said "No" to allowing a second tier 2 carrier would AC of done it anyway? It was in their CA that all tier 2 was to be flown by Jazz was it not. Is it really in their control? If the company REALLY wants to farm out more flying will scope clauses actually accomplish anything? Say CR comes to ACPA and says "listen, we want Jazz to fly the EMBs" (Just as an example here so relax for a sec) and ACPA says "HELL NO". CR turns around and says "we can't make money on them so they're going or it's CCAA again or we're going to court to amend the CA because for the sake of the company we have no choice" what do they do? CR gets his way. Likewise AC decides to have Jazz fly the LCC, what the hell can the Jazz ALPA pilots do? Nothing. It could go both ways too. The dashes have been talked about to be going tier 3 for a while some time in the future. Other than adjusting our WACON to make it more profitable for them to stay on the property what else can we do. SCOPE? Yah right.

We could all support a common wage scale across the aviation spectrum to even the playing field and support a nation wide seniority list to make pilot wages and working conditions much less negotiable though.

[Jastapilot]

How can you blame management? They're just doing what management does, and it's up to the employees to stand up and say, 'this isn't right'.

[flyinhigh]

+ 1 to teacher comment
This type of flying is Air Canada's flying. Not jazz. nor sky regional. And jazz flying should be jazz flying only. We are all working to keep the same airlines in business.

Don't mean to rant here, but jazz pilots are very hypocritical. They will sit here and complain that AC is giving our flying to Sky Regional and beyond, and yet at the same time they are hoping that AC's flying (aka EMB's and LCC) will come to jazz. Does nobody see anything wrong with this picture? We truly are our own worst enemy.

Dude, you are a Jazz Pilot are you not? Did you not just start as well? Or am I wrong here.

Based on what you wrote and alot of the stuff that I have read it seems the ONLY thing you support here is our statues pay and thats it.

Did you know that if AC did all the AC flying you would not have a job! Also you call me a hypocit yet I don't believe I have ever wished that we have there aircraft, nor do I want them. Some do yes, but to put that label on eveyone, including yourself is just wrong.

Cheers,
Mike

[TopperHarley]

BTW Topper, your avatar looks nothing like you!

Yeah I've got more of a "Denzel Washington look" I guess. Give me a few more years though, the crew meals are starting to age me