F-35 looking more like white elephant

[Moose47]

Iceisnice wrote: "Simply put, the F-35 is a 'dog'"

Geez I guess you must have thousands of hours flying fighters to make that claim. I bet you have an aeronautical engineering degree too, right?

[Expat]

This is a white elephant tread, not a dog tread.

[Moose47]

"This is a white elephant tread, not a dog tread"

woof woof!

[frosti]

Simply put, the F-35 is a 'dog'. Anyone one who has followed this 'backended' procurement dog and pony show, brought to you by LockheedMartin, knows it. The real kicker here, jamming this piece of crap down the taxpayers gullet, while giving our future aviators an inferior weapons platform. Also, this LM welfare program started prior to Harper taking office, and if, Iggy had won, Canada would still be purchasing these "Chinese aerial targets"
Almost every is getting cold feet, the US Navy being one, and a huge blow to the program's cheerleaders. Now, even its strongest proponent, the US Air Force is grumbling. In the last few years, here has been some very interesting articles in "Air Force" (Association) magazine. Thus the pressure for Canada is keep its promise.
Some excellent comments made in earier posts regarding the 'competition', there are much better products out there, even from of our NATO partners or "Security Partnership" (ie Sweden).
Funny, we can can buy all sorts of "made in China" products, just not the good ones.
Could it be "Air Superiority" is slipping away. Recently a high ranking Chinese General stated that they were no match for the US, that may be true, but when it comes to fighters, the Chinese just might have taken the middle-high ground. But, the US still owns the heavens.
We should drop this charade, and IF we need a fighter aircraft, find out what we need it for, and then go out and purchase one. Canada should drop out of this LockheedMartin welfare program.

The F-35 is going to be later and more expensive than originally planned, yes, but I don't think that's going to keep it from being a great aircraft. Most of the fault for that lies within our acquisition culture, which like clockwork generates rosy initial assessments that get smashed later. The F-35 is just the largest program to fit that trend, but not by far the only one. Everyone has got to be glad, the US is the lead level partner. Otherwise the project would have became a complete disaster like European projects of the Typhoon and NH90.

[2R]

WOFTAM

[W5]

Lockheed rides new momentum for F-35

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... -f-35.html

[Hawkerflyer]

Wouldn't this make more sense?

[frosti]

Wouldn't this make more sense?

So what international customers have ordered Silent Eagles?

The F-15SE is very much a paper aircraft. It's going to need a lot of software development, and a complete gutting in order to get anywhere near 5th generation levels, and will have an extremely limited internal carriage. Its a fine 4.5 gen strike fighter, but it isn't 5 gen. It's time for Boeing to develop something new if they want to stay in the fighter market.

[Hawkerflyer]

They are already flying...

WASHINGTON (AFP) – Two US F-15SE fighter jets on Saturday intercepted a small civilian plane flying near Camp David, the presidential retreat where Barack Obama is spending the weekend with his family.
The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) said the jets intercepted the Beechcraft Bonanza aircraft near the Maryland retreat at around 3:25 pm (1925 GMT) and escorted it away "without incident."
"The civilian aircraft, which was out of radio communication, was intercepted approximately 11 miles from Camp David," it said in a statement.
"The F-15SE... escorted the aircraft out of the area and it landed at Hagerstown, Maryland, without incident."
NORAD spokeswoman Stacey Knott said the plane was intercepted out of an "abundance of caution" because it was out of radio contact, adding that it did not appear to pose any threat.

[2R]

The weapons that are capable of winning any future conflict are not part of the F-35. The companies that are involved in the F-35 are building those weapons far from spying eyes.
The F-35 program is a piece of cheese.A piece of cheese used to catch a spy rat.Guess who is attempting to build a copy of the F-35 from stolen data.Data that is flawed.
Too cryptic for you.Here is a clue: six hundred dollar screwdriver.
The X program is back and may be ramped upto a larger scale.
All they need to do is weaponize the old spy plane the Aurora(the capabilities are still top secret) to defeat any large military threat.
Who knows maybe the Aurora already has a weapons system

We need A-10's because they are the most beatiful weapon in use today,and we could use them to stop dead any invading hoards from the North

[cdnpilot77]

We need A-10's because they are the most beatiful weapon in use today,and we could use them to stop dead any invading hoards from the North

Or unruly rioters in Vancouver and Toronto

[TheCheez]

They are already flying...

WASHINGTON (AFP) – Two US F-15SE fighter jets on Saturday intercepted a small civilian plane flying near Camp David, the presidential retreat where Barack Obama is spending the weekend with his family.
The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) said the jets intercepted the Beechcraft Bonanza aircraft near the Maryland retreat at around 3:25 pm (1925 GMT) and escorted it away "without incident."
"The civilian aircraft, which was out of radio communication, was intercepted approximately 11 miles from Camp David," it said in a statement.
"The F-15SE... escorted the aircraft out of the area and it landed at Hagerstown, Maryland, without incident."
NORAD spokeswoman Stacey Knott said the plane was intercepted out of an "abundance of caution" because it was out of radio contact, adding that it did not appear to pose any threat.

I can't find any other info that says it's flying operationally. Considering it's first flight was less than a year ago, it seems pretty unlikely it's been delivered and flying intercepts without any other media releases prior to this. Knowing the media's understanding of aviation, they probably shortened F-15 Strike Eagle into SE without the fact checking.

[frosti]

They are already flying...

WASHINGTON (AFP) – Two US F-15SE fighter jets on Saturday intercepted a small civilian plane flying near Camp David, the presidential retreat where Barack Obama is spending the weekend with his family.
The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) said the jets intercepted the Beechcraft Bonanza aircraft near the Maryland retreat at around 3:25 pm (1925 GMT) and escorted it away "without incident."
"The civilian aircraft, which was out of radio communication, was intercepted approximately 11 miles from Camp David," it said in a statement.
"The F-15SE... escorted the aircraft out of the area and it landed at Hagerstown, Maryland, without incident."
NORAD spokeswoman Stacey Knott said the plane was intercepted out of an "abundance of caution" because it was out of radio contact, adding that it did not appear to pose any threat.

I can't find any other info that says it's flying operationally. Considering it's first flight was less than a year ago, it seems pretty unlikely it's been delivered and flying intercepts without any other media releases prior to this. Knowing the media's understanding of aviation, they probably shortened F-15 Strike Eagle into SE without the fact checking.

Yes exactly. That F15SE was the Strike Eagle, not Silent Eagle. The Silent Eagle hasn't left the drawing board yet. You can't just slap on internal bays and cant the VStabs on a regular F15 and call it good. Why are there no orders for the Silent Eagle or F18 International, because Air Forces around the world know that 5th gen is the future, not some abortions of original designs.

[Hawkerflyer]

My bad

[Guido]

Wouldn't this make more sense?

Of course not. The next third world country we'll invade is going to be flying F-22s and we'd get our clocks cleaned.

[Beefitarian]

We need A-10's because they are the most beatiful weapon in use today,and we could use them to stop dead any invading hoards from the North

Or unruly rioters in Vancouver and Toronto

Shouldn't they get a couple of apache helos with rubber bullets for that?

[xsbank]

Are all the F-35s VTOL? Is that what we ordered?

[cdnpilot77]

No, from what I understand that option was limited to the Marine Corps exclusively.

[2R]

We need A-10's because they are the most beatiful weapon in use today,and we could use them to stop dead any invading hoards from the North

Or unruly rioters in Vancouver and Toronto

Shouldn't they get a couple of apache helos with rubber bullets for that?

Rubber bullets have been known to cause lesbians to riot

[Beefitarian]

We need A-10's because they are the most beatiful weapon in use today,and we could use them to stop dead any invading hoards from the North

Or unruly rioters in Vancouver and Toronto

Shouldn't they get a couple of apache helos with rubber bullets for that?

Rubber bullets have been known to cause lesbians to riot

Real ones or the ones in the dirty movies that guys think are lesbians?

[sky's the limit]

The Pentagon's Priciest Plane Can't Fly

ADAM CLARK ESTES AUG 04, 20115,348 ViewsComments (9)
Fighter jets have always been an expensive line item for the Pentagon, but the cost of the new F-35 fleet sets a startling precedent. As Dominic Tierney explains at The Atlantic, the cost of building and operating the 2,443 planes the military is planning to buy tops out at over $1 trillion: "In other words, we're spending more on this plane than Australia's entire GDP ($924 billion)." You would think for all that money, they would at least fly (as well as maybe do your laundry and give you some tax advice.) But for the moment, the entire fleet is grounded.

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram reports, "the power system that starts and cools the aircraft failed during an engine ground test," and until engineers can figure out why, the pricey planes are simply expensive lawn ornaments. This is the third time that this has happened in less than a year--an electrical problem afflicted the fleet in March and software problems grounded the fleet last October. Responding to this latest development, The Atlantic's Joshua Foust points out that while these problems were cropping up, the Pentagon was scrambling to find a way to cut costs and distracted by a plan to design a second, cheaper engine for the jet.

The latest mechanical failure might prove helpful to those who would like to see more scrutiny directed at the fate of the fleet. (At least, the F-35 pilots don't have anti-freeze in their blood.) The Pentagon is scrambling to figure out how they'll deal with the possible $500 billion in budget cuts as outlined by the new debt deal. According to a Bloomberg report out Thursday, the gnarly new fleet of F-35 Joint Strike Fighters on order from Lockheed Martin "has been in the crosshairs" for a while. And it's not too difficult to see why. The fleet will be the most expensive weapons program in Pentagon history.

[frosti]

That was days ago.

The latest.

UPDATE: August 10, 2011 - The F-35 Joint Program Office authorized a return to ground operations for the F-35 developmental test (DT) aircraft today. This is the first step in returning the F-35 fleet to full flight operations. A precautionary suspension of both ground and flight operations for the program was issued Aug. 3.

An Air Force Safety Investigation Board convened Aug. 4 and is reviewing the circumstances that led to the failure of the Integrated Power Package (IPP) aboard AF-4, an F-35A conventional takeoff and landing variant, assigned to Edwards AFB, Calif. The F-35's IPP is a turbo-machine that provides power to start the engine and generates cooling for the aircraft.

While the investigation continues, government and contractor engineering teams, after reviewing initial data, determined the fleet could safely resume DT ground operations. Preliminary root cause indicates that a control valve did not function properly which led to the IPP failure. Monitoring of this valve is the mitigating action to allow DT ground operations. The F-35 team is revising ground monitoring procedures to ensure testing involving the IPP takes place safely.

While initiating DT ground operations is a major step for the F-35 fleet returning to flight, further reviews are required prior to lifting the suspension of flight operations for the 20 F-35s currently in flying status. These aircraft are part of the System Development and Demonstration (SDD) and Low Rate Initial Production fleet.

The determinations of root cause and potential mitigating actions have the highest priority of the F-35 Team. The impact to SDD execution and production operations is being assessed. The program has built margin into the test schedule to accommodate these kinds of incidents that occur in the development effort. Periodic updates concerning this situation will be released as warranted.

http://www.f35.com/news-events/top-issues.aspx

[cdnpilot77]

Another option?

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/17/ne ... ?hpt=hp_c2

Russia's new stealth fighter jet made its public debut Tuesday, according to state-run news source RIA Novosti.

The Sukhoi T-50, developed collaboratively by Russia and India, appeared at the MAKS 2011 air show in Zhukovsky, outside Moscow.

Gen. Alexander Zelin, head of the Russian air force, told RIA Novosti he expects the T-50 prototype to be ready in 2013, with "mass-produced aircraft" arriving in 2014 or 2015.

The aircraft is expected to become a staple of airborne defense for both Russia and India, Mikhail Pogosyan, head of Russia's United Aircraft Corp., told RIA Novosti.

"The T-50 will be the newest main plane both for the Russian and the Indian air force," Pogosyan said.

The article from the state-run media source says the Sukhoi T-50 cost the two governments about $6 billion to develop, with India shouldering about 35% of the cost. It is intended to match the U.S. F-22 raptor.

[frosti]

Another option?

http://defense.aol.com/2011/08/15/marin ... over-f-18/

So during the recent press event for Lockheed Martin's F-35B here, I asked two test pilots who've actually flown both the F-35 and the F/A-18 E/F for their opinion.

Their unequivocal opinion -- I'd fly the F-35. That doesn't mean some of the nine partner countries might not abandon the F-35 program if it encounters a new huge cost or schedule shift. But it is the word of those who fly these weapons. And their opinion matters.

Keep on sucking ass, Boeing.

[Brewguy]

So I asked two army drivers, who've actually driven both the Humvee and a Bugatti Veyron, for their opinion.

Their unequivocal opinion -- I'd drive the Veyron.
That is the word of those who drive these vehicles. And their opinion matters.

Keep on sucking ass, AM General.