Thank your ACPA reps for THIS

[mbav8r]

Air Canada carrying on business as Air Canada Express (Air Canada), on behalf of itself and ExpressJet Airlines, Inc

Accordingly, the Agency, pursuant to paragraph 60(1)(b) of the CTA and section 8.2 of the ATR, approves the use by Air Canada of aircraft and flight crew provided by ExpressJet, and the provision by ExpressJet of such aircraft and flight crew to Air Canada, to permit Air Canada to provide its scheduled international service on licensed routes between Canada and the United States of America by selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by ExpressJet, for an indefinite period from the date of this Decision.

I don't know why the application uses "code share" Expressjet is a CPA provider and for all intents and purpose this appears to be a CPA type relationship. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[Brick Head]

My guess.

Pending the outcome of the commissioner’s application to bring the matter before the Competition Tribunal, the airlines said they would be suspending the joint venture.

http://www.cbc.ca/fp/story/2011/06/27/5012579.html

This application appears to be the result of the transboarder Joint Venture with UA being put on hold. Months of work went into planning. We even saw cancelled routes from all players allowing the current dominant partner control. Now the whole thing is on hold.

A CPA means AC would control all the capacity. JV are virtual mergers. Code share is probably its closest legal relative at the moment. A way of holding together the intended JV (virtual merge) sched in a fashion that is presently legal.

IOW plan B.

[xTally]

This type of arrangement is clearly a degradation of the Canadian industry. Hopefully if ACPA cleans house a bit they will be in a condition to fight this.

I wonder how many times this kind of thing has been tried before...

[flyinhigh]

This goes WAAAAAAAY over ACPA's head.

This was brought on by the Competition bureau to try and get Canadian Airlines to lower there prices. By opening the open skies agreement that just allowed the US to come up and do even AC's flying if they wanted. Once it was past, from a management stand point I'd do this to.

As for the running to the bottom, I've been here only 11 years and am so sick of this industry and all the gouverment types, etc. that complain we're costing to much but NEVER realize that VIA/Greyhound is 300 buscks more expensive than AC on a round trip YWG-YYZ. why not harp on them..

As for ACPA, once they said yes to the sky regional deal that was the nail in the coffin. You can argue anyway you want. It'll go to arribitration just like EVERYTHING else you do, the gentleman across the table will say, you accepted than and not the next day. Why? what changed. Sorry your SOL and Rovenescu new it the day you said yes.

[ZBBYLW]

Well the problem is the taxes are so much higher in Canada we have no chance to have comparable air fare. My money is on Ottawa not wanting to give up the tax $$.

Further more what I have learned is that ACPA did not say yes. It was only in the contract that was shot down in a great ball of fire. The fact is the individuals (note: not the membership) that said yes are mostly not even there anymore. I hardly call that saying yes.

[vortac]

I'm starting to think that Canadian pilots (just as American pilots have failed) are incapable of protecting their profession from erosion and in many cases self destruction. The elite MBA grads with different interests, goals, motivations and education that rise up through the corporate ranks are much more capable of seeing to it that their goals are met and their vision of this industry comes to be.

It's not even about the economics of supply and demand, which in my opinion are in favour of experienced pilots. It's about trickery, emotions, and the capitalization of our indifferent attitudes toward each other that we are taken advantage of. I will stop short of saying that ACPA is part of the problem just yet. Time will tell.

[teacher]

Well the problem is the taxes are so much higher in Canada we have no chance to have comparable air fare. My money is on Ottawa not wanting to give up the tax $$.

Further more what I have learned is that ACPA did not say yes. It was only in the contract that was shot down in a great ball of fire. The fact is the individuals (note: not the membership) that said yes are mostly not even there anymore. I hardly call that saying yes.

Perhaps, but it's too late now.

[Photog]

When the "young turks" at AC voted down the last TA I warned them that
AC wouldn't take much time to figure out a way to circumvent any restrictions
to having their own LCC .... regardless of who actually flew the metal.

At the risk if sounding miserable, I can truly say

I TOLD YOU SO !!

Next item on the agenda will be the transition to the defined contribution
pension plan for new hires.

It's going to be interesting to see just how little of the recent TA ACPA actually will get to see
at the end of present negotiations. I'd be willing to bet that the pay rates, 320 5%, pay groups,
working conditions and shceduling rules will pretty much stay the same. Maybe a percentage point here and there
to make it look pretty .....
but I think ACPA pretty much screwed the pooch on this one .

Hopefully I won't be able

I TOLD YOU SO !! again

[bcflyer]

When the "young turks" at AC voted down the last TA I warned them that
AC wouldn't take much time to figure out a way to circumvent any restrictions
to having their own LCC .... regardless of who actually flew the metal.

At the risk if sounding miserable, I can truly say

I TOLD YOU SO !!

Next item on the agenda will be the transition to the defined contribution
pension plan for new hires.

It's going to be interesting to see just how little of the recent TA ACPA actually will get to see
at the end of present negotiations. I'd be willing to bet that the pay rates, 320 5%, pay groups,
working conditions and shceduling rules will pretty much stay the same. Maybe a percentage point here and there
to make it look pretty .....
but I think ACPA pretty much screwed the pooch on this one .

Hopefully I won't be able

I TOLD YOU SO !! again

LCC? Where did you get that from? It's another tier 2 carrier doing AC flying. I don't see any Carribean or Trans Atlantic flying being done here. Other than the fact they are very poorly paid in the US where exactly is the LCC part you are talking about?

[200Above]

Wow. Nothing good about this. I respectfully turned down an interview with AC a couple months ago, mainly due to my own selfishness. (Fly for a good 705 Company and am treated well) But this change impacts everyone, whether you decide to go to AC or not.

I haven't heard many good things about the safety records of these US regional airlines. Low pay, long working hours and poor training (remember the Colgan Capt who crashed and had failed something like 3 check rides before hand?)

Time to go back to school boys and girls. Seriously.

Sign me up
http://www.athabascau.ca/

[Rockie]

I think I have successfully dissuaded my son from becoming a pilot. While he would no doubt be an exceptional pilot (he is my son after all), who would help ensure the Canadian public continues to fly in the safe manner they are so blissfully ignorant of, I am relieved to have saved him from a lifetime of getting f****d over time after time after time.

The train is looking more and more attractive every year.

[MackTheKnife]

I think I have successfully dissuaded my son from becoming a pilot.

So have I. A pilot was the last thing I ever want any of my kids to be.

[planeless]

I know the public probably doesn't care but hopefully the media gets informed about air canada farming out canadian jobs and the fact that their pilots will be making 21k a year.

[BTyyj]

Double post, sorry

[BTyyj]

I think I have successfully dissuaded my son from becoming a pilot. While he would no doubt be an exceptional pilot (he is my son after all), who would help ensure the Canadian public continues to fly in the safe manner they are so blissfully ignorant of, I am relieved to have saved him from a lifetime of getting f****d over time after time after time.

The train is looking more and more attractive every year.

So have I. A pilot was the last thing I ever want any of my kids to be.

Wow, thanks guys

[tbaylx]

I think I have successfully dissuaded my son from becoming a pilot. While he would no doubt be an exceptional pilot (he is my son after all), who would help ensure the Canadian public continues to fly in the safe manner they are so blissfully ignorant of, I am relieved to have saved him from a lifetime of getting f****d over time after time after time.

The train is looking more and more attractive every year.

So have I. A pilot was the last thing I ever want any of my kids to be.

Wow, thanks guys

It isn't just them, me and anyone else I know in the industry would never encourage our children to go into this profession. Unless they were set on it i'd keep them far far away in a career far far away from aviation.

[Rockie]

Unless they were set on it i'd keep them far far away in a career far far away from aviation.

To be fair airline CEO's, COO's and CFO's are exceptionally well paid and enjoy pension and other benefits even MP's are jealous of. But for the rest of us it's a dying career that any parent would want their children to avoid.

[Localizer]

May I suggest everyone direct their anger and frustration into an email and send it to your MP? This is nothing more then the slow erosion of Canadian jobs and we should stick this tail on the foreign pilot donkey. I understand the difference between the two situations, but considering the foreign pilot issue is picking up momentum this issue might see more public day light. Shouldn't the Canadian public know that there pilot is a 250 hour wonder out of a puppy mill from America?

[Squid]

All I want to know is how all the dudes like Disco Stu etc are feeling now about collecting signatures and collaborating to oust the T1 agreement and the individuals elected to negotiate it.
Not as dumb as they were portraying them before - now.....

Stu? (buler)
Stu? (buler)....Stu?...(buler)

[BTyyj]

But for the rest of us it's a dying career that any parent would want their children to avoid.

Dying career as in 20 years from now the pay and working conditions will be even worse than they are currently?

[Takeoff OK]

May I suggest everyone direct their anger and frustration into an email and send it to your MP? This is nothing more then the slow erosion of Canadian jobs and we should stick this tail on the foreign pilot donkey. I understand the difference between the two situations, but considering the foreign pilot issue is picking up momentum this issue might see more public day light. Shouldn't the Canadian public know that there pilot is a 250 hour wonder out of a puppy mill from America?

No, you should not "stick this tail on the foreign pilot donkey". While Sunwing's scumbag practices have served to ensure their place in this diminished industry, and US codeshares will be sure to eventually wreak even more havoc for the AC guys and gals, the problem Rockie's referring to really has nothing to do with foreign pilots. It is the corporate greed, the firing squad of "fiduciary responsibility", and the added GFY of government collusion, that have all succeeded in achieving a systematic degradation of the "professional pilot" career in the North American industry, and to a substantial degree the European as well.

Isn't it ironic that the Railway Labor Act, which Canadian economic/political powers have emulated to remove the AC pilots' right to strike (and which actually came to be as a result of American railroad union reactions to unfair working conditions a century ago, yet is used to beat the shit out of airline labour across the board in the present day U.S. of A.) seems to have no bearing on the CP Rail situation? What has a greater effect on the economy: 5000 tonnes of coal, potash, steel, cars, and other various goods?, or 5000 fat vacationers? Absolute bullshit.

My future children will do no flying beyond the level of a hobby. Period. You know the supposed pilot shortage that's always "on the horizon"? Well guess what? It will happen, but only as a result of our generation guiding the next away from the joke this is becoming.