ALPA's Position on Training Bonds

[FlowPack]

IFFP - I wouldn't leave because integrity and my reputation are important to me on top of the job being good.

However, this same respectable company has been forced to move to bonds because pilots are pilots and they will always think of themselves first.

[KK7]

Just because a company is great, doesn't mean they can retain every employee that walks through their door. I work overseas on rotation, and have seen many people initially attracted to this kind of work, but then quickly realize it wasn't for them afterall. For those of us who enjoy the lifestyle, we love it and are happy with our jobs and our company. But sometimes when someone starts working here, they have a different idea of the work environment, maybe thinking developing countries are better than they really are, or that they don't like being away for such a length of time. There are many reasons to leave that don't include a company being good or bad. A bond makes people think twice about the job they are going to do for the one year period that they are held under that bond before they jump in blindly.

I'd say it's a very naive point of view to think that it is simply a company being good or bad that dictates whether a pilot will stay or not. To many people out there, the grass seems to be always greener elsewhere.

[Family Man]

No money up front but this is the same idea.

Unpaid interns: working for free
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-in ... le2101863/

[Doc]

Hey Doc - it would seem that you believe all employers are scum, they grind their boys and girls down physically and emotionally at every opportunity, taking advantage of the dark corner a bond has put them in and get off on it whilst whistling a tune all the way to the bank - that's how it reads to me.
If I were to read between the lines I would be led to think you have been employed by such companies in the past or had/have friends who have had that experience. My experience has been much different.

My question to you Doc - if an established company with a good reputation (read: no cowboys) offered you a job (that suited your lifestyle) on a good airplane that was well maintained, paid for all training up front and offered a wage above industry standard, would you consider it? Oops, I forgot to mention they would like you to sign a bond, prorated over two years - the only requirement from you is to be committed for said amount of time, nothing more.

That's the job I have.

Would you turn it down based solely on your no-bond principles?

I'll keep it real simple. Hell, I'll even type slow so you can keep up.
NEVER have I stated that "all employees are scum....etc.etc....." you need to catch up on your ESL.
Simple answer. If there's a bond. Any bond, that means my word isn't good enough. I'd say "Go @#$! yourself" That simple enough to you???

[FlowPack]

NEVER have I stated that "all employees are scum....etc.etc....." you need to catch up on your ESL.

I assume you meant to say 'employers' in that statement since it's in quotations.. glad you were typing slow

Any bond, that means my word isn't good enough. I'd say "Go @#$! yourself" That simple enough to you???

Does that come with a side of chest thumping?
I've hired and fired enough people in my day. No, your word is not good enough for me, but thanks though. You live your life your way and I'll live mine my way; seems to be working out just fine either way.

[square]

Dave, what other industry pretty much demands that employees subsidize the bottom line?

If an industry like aviation is having trouble turning a profit don't you think charging more for the services provided would make a little sense?

Bonds exist to enforce low wages and poor working conditions and prevent pilots from leaving when they get tired of being treated like shit or find somewhere better, plain and simple.

This is a pretty naive viewpoint. There are northern operators running very low load factors in and out of places where no one wants to be and they need aircrew more than anyone else. A pilot can easily accept a job there, become type rated at the company and then QUIT to take a job with a NEW employer out of YVR, YYC, YYZ or YUL even before his line indoc is done. EASILY.

People have done EXACTLY THAT and now the company is out 15k or 25k or whatever, and are a month behind their training now because they need somebody else, and have to cancel scheds and turn down work because the pilots they have are all dutied out. To say they have their employee sign a training bond so that they can bully him and take advantage of him is simply inflammatory and you won't get anywhere antagonizing people like that.

ALPA makes some good points, there are conditions in bonds that are unfair to pilots, amounts that exceed costs and people like JetsGo should be simply arrested, but there's a damn good reason they're there and it's because of pilots being unfair to employers who trusted them on their word.

One thing pilots should be doing, and to those of you with some hours I would especially hope you listen -- negotiate your own bond! Go over the document phrase by phrase with your employer and make it an agreement that's fair to you. That's what I've done and I've found that the people signing on the other line aren't even aware of some of the conditions that are in there, and they've insisted it be changed before we agree on anything. You have a say.. use it.