GUSTS! Handling tips & tricks for landing on floats

[soak]

Newbie floater here.

I'm looking for advice on how to land relatively smoothly in gusty conditions on narrow bodies of water.

I realize we have the advantage over our wheeled siblings, being that we could actually see the gusts and should be able to plan accordingly, BUT - perhaps due to my inexperience, half of all my landings in these conditions result in a firm, pancake touchdown. (ballooning on final implied)

Help please.

[Level@3000]

Plan your touchdown prior to or beyond the gusts. Experience will help with this. Manage your power accordingly, knowing that after you fly through a gust the bottom will fall out if you don't have enough power on. Much more could be said on this topic. Safe Flying.

[zero]

Good question "soak", one I asked myself when starting out. Kinda got it figured out after 10 years flogging floats on the west coast, I'm no expert but find these techniques help a lot.

Using your throttle is the first technique you should get familiar with. As you approach a gust pull the throttle back a half inch(you'll find the best setting through experience) just before you hit it. This will give you a slight drop in airspeed which will be offset by the gust giving you a steady decent rate. The opposite is true once you're ALMOST through the gust, add a bit of throttle to counteract the drop in airspeed again giving you a steady decent rate to touchdown.

A more advanced technique involves using your flaps...works better in a Cessna but I use it often in the Beaver as well. Instead of waiting for the gust to pass and then having a drop and hard landing on the water, land in a gust...but you gotta be ready. Once you have your landing flap set, place the Beaver flap selector in the up position. After you have retarded the throttle for the upcoming gust place your right hand on the flap handle and get ready to dump em. As soon as you touch the water, or even a little before if you're gentle, dump all the flap to prevent ballooning...and enjoy a greaser in the most challenging conditions.

Hope this helps, shoot me a PM when you're ready for a job on the west coast in a couple of years.

[Liquid Charlie]

If you are looking to get the thing on the water -- aim for the biggest blackest gust and chop the power just before you get to it - 1 of 2 things will happen -- you grease it on in the gust or you come out the other side and plop it on - regardless you are not using up valuable lake and no shorelines rushing at you and better still you are not dinking around trying to grease it on and going up and down like a toilet seat -- and yes on a 180 or 185 you can play with the flaps -- never did it on a amik though --

[buck82]

+1 what Liquid Charlie said. personally i don't like fidling with the flaps once they are set; Keep your hand on the throttle so you are ready to over shoot if need be.

[cloudrunner]

Good question from a new guy.

If I were to teach someone gusty landing technique, I would say this:

Pick your spot on approach, figure out if you'll be in the gust or the lull and put it there. If you're going to be in the gust, you're going to need to stick your nose in and fly it right on. Dump the flaps the second you touch the water. If you'll be in the lull, then you better be on the throttle as you come out of the gust, feather the power and plant it, again dump the flaps before you slide into another gust so you don't get airborne again. You have to be aggressive and fly it until it's off the step, 2 hands and 2 feet. If you are not on the water within a count of "1-1 thousand, 2-1 thousand, 3-1 thousand" of that spot you picked, hammer the power and try it again or go somewhere else.

I have to say that I respectfully disagree with the "find a big gust and chop the power" approach. Too many variables to consider this a technique IMO. If you wind up on the far end of the gust and and you've ballooned it and have committed to NOT using power or have burned up all your lake, you are toast. Depending on your height above the water, it might be more akin to a slam/splat like a poorly executed glassy water.

Just my 2 cents

[Liquid Charlie]

To each his own for sure - but it worked for me over several thousand hours and I was initially given the tip by a very experienced west coast boat driver who found himself flying pig boat in NWO -- it's a fact the airplane will not be flying when you come out of the gust but you will be where you want to be - on the water -- the object is to always touch down in the gust -- now it's up to you to be able to judge height -- you need to be close to the water and in the flair not 50 feet up -- but that is just common sense -- glassy water -- mmmm -- land close to something like a shore line and island -- never did go for the set up a rate of decent and power - now night landings -- that was different thing -- lol -- we never did that --

[Cat Driver]

it's a fact the airplane will not be flying when you come out of the gust but you will be where you want to be - on the water -- the object is to always touch down in the gust -- now it's up to you to be able to judge height -- you need to be close to the water and in the flair not 50 feet up -- but that is just common sense --

[SuperchargedRS]

groundeffect is your friend

[Liquid Charlie]

New pilot's seat -- just for you Cat --

[ruddersup?]

I like Liquid Charlie's method. Power off and be low to water before entering gust then be ready with elevator to push then pull.

[Cat Driver]

It's all about reading the oncoming wind gusts and using energy management and aircraft attitude/power and height judgement to contact the water at the proper attitude in the shortest distance.

[soak]

Using your throttle is the first technique you should get familiar with. As you approach a gust pull the throttle back a half inch(you'll find the best setting through experience) just before you hit it. This will give you a slight drop in airspeed which will be offset by the gust giving you a steady decent rate. The opposite is true once you're ALMOST through the gust, add a bit of throttle to counteract the drop in airspeed again giving you a steady decent rate to touchdown.

Tried and tested! More controlled, smoother touchdowns for the most part. I found my problem to be that I would wait till the end of the gust to add power, instead of adding it when ALMOST through. At first, it didn't feel right because I felt I was still ballooning slightly, but having given it a go, it worked well with moderate wind.

As the wind speed picked up throughout the day, the gusts were spaced very close together. I found it to be quite challenging to time the entry or exit point, so no greasers from me from then on. Just wanted to be down and stay down.

I didn't try the advanced (flap)technique yet.

You have to be aggressive and fly it until it's off the step, 2 hands and 2 feet. If you are not on the water within a count of "1-1 thousand, 2-1 thousand, 3-1 thousand" of that spot you picked, hammer the power and try it again or go somewhere else.

Thanks for that, a good piece of advice and reminder.

[Cat Driver]

The only time I use power below around fifty feet is if I am doing a glassy water approach.


The above is when flying any piston engine sea plane.

[phillyfan]

hmmm. Do you approach every landing with two hands on the wheel, with the knowledge that you will never need power? or do you still keep a hand on'er just in case? Is the "50 foot" plan different with a turbine engine?

[Cat Driver]

hmmm. Do you approach every landing with two hands on the wheel, with the knowledge that you will never need power? or do you still keep a hand on'er just in case? Is the "50 foot" plan different with a turbine engine?

I never land with both hands on the wheel, even in the PBY which requires a fair amount of effort as far as control input goes.

Control of power at a critical phase of flight such as take off and landing means you must have control of not only the flight controls but also the power.

Depends on the turbine aircraft one is flying, in the Twin Otter I did not pull all thrust until I was positive surface contact was assured. Same thing in the Turbo Goose.

The A320 on the other hand tells you when to close the power levers.

By the way, when doing type ratings in the PBY, especially on the water I made sure they could consistently land with throttles closed below 200 feet.

[DHCdriver]

I believe every pilot with develop his/her own technique for gusts and glassy water. Nothing is written in stone or a P.O.H. One masters this with expierence. Just to add this, I for one like to have a little power on to compensate for any unexpected change in wind(s). Just my thoughts. DHC

[Cat Driver]

The use of power is a choice each pilot must make during every aproach and landing.

The more power you use the longer the airplane remains airborne and extends the exposure to wind gusts / direction changes.

If I can not land power off due to wind gusts then I am exceeding my own airplane handling skills which is poor airmanship in my personal opinion.

Of course I will use power to salvage an uncommanded diversion from my intended attitude / altitude caused by wind gusts..or to go around if needed.

[cloudrunner]

I think in essence, we all agree on the basic principals of landing floatplanes in gusts. By it's very nature, it is a topic with plenty of variables that can not be pigeonholed into a right or wrong way, but rather it's a set of skills and an awareness of the water that needs to be honed over time. I would say that I agree with both Liquid Charlie and Cat regarding what they are saying, but maybe just not how they are saying it.

IMO there is not always a gust big or bad enough to land in. If I had my choice, I would definitely land within the gust as it is a (relatively) consistent body of air, my point is that to go looking for one is not how I would put the point across. I tend to choose the most protected part of the water and pick a spot, reading the gusts on final to determine if it will be a power off (in the gust) or a combination of power and pitch (in the lull) type of landing. The depth or size of the gust is of consequence as is tracking the speed of the leading edge of the gust which is crucial and comes with experience I would say. If you can get it down and planted within the dark water you should be fine as your airspeed will die as you come out the back, if you are still in the air at that point, you are either going to need power and/or a very good touch to get it down with any finesse IMO. Conversely, if you are trying to plant it in the lull and you find yourself approaching the next gust and you have not come off the step and have not dumped your flaps, you are going flying again and that can just lead to you looking like somebody who should be operating something less consequential than a floatplane for a living.

I have developed my own method in the Caravan amphib which has my right hand moving very quickly as I touch the water. Power lever to beta, flick the flaps to zero, pull the FCL back to low idle and then right back to the power lever to either touch it into reverse or haul it right back to full reverse, depending on the water. If I really want to stop it short, the flaps will get sent moving to zero in the second before I touch, which is a commitment to land to say the least. The joys of reverse pitch is something not lost on me in such cases. The 208 is capable of stopping very short if you work at it, I just wish it would get INTO the air as capably on takeoff with a load.

Hopefully this gives you some food for thought, soak. Welcome to the world of flying floats.

PS Don't worry if you can't land in gusty conditions without power, you are still worthy of being a pilot. Only after 60 years of flying, several venereal diseases and a grudge against the authorities do you need to worry about such things, just ask Cat

(Just kidding Cat. I now your thick skin can't be penetrated by my dull sense of humour)

Scott

[Liquid Charlie]

I'm with Cat on this -- to each his own - but one thing to keep in mind that will stay with you through out your career -- when you are landing -- hit the target - lake/runway behind you is one of the most useless commodities in the world -- we have all heard that one -- next time you see someone eating up real estate - don't laugh at him for being such an idiot -- ask yourself why so you don't do the same thing ------

Having said all that -- we all need some harmless entertainment from time to time -- as long as it's harmless -- we are a heartless bunch and love it when someone has a minor fuckup

[Liquid Charlie]

Another good question -- when you don't have the fancy reversing ropeller how do you stop short on water -- I think I have seen a thread on this before -- but being the true male -- I always pushed -- haha because if you pull you can be accused of self gratification --

[DHCdriver]

Only after 60 years of flying, several venereal diseases and a grudge against the authorities do you need to worry about such things, just ask Cat

That's too funny That's the reason I waste all my spare time on AvCanada. DHC

[Cat Driver]

As an extra source of income I am planning on going to the Mayo Clinic and letting them use my body to as lab so they can mass produce the enzyme or whatever that makes me immune to most V.D.

One of the most stressful things about flying for a living was getting time off to go home only to find you have another dose of clap.

Be careful about trying to cover it up by blaming your wife for giving you the clap, because if she breaks down and starts to cry you now have a another problem to deal with.

Wind gusts on the water you can see.......V.D. is invisible and you never know where it will be present.

[DHCdriver]

Cat with years of expierence, VD or not I'd sit down and listen to you all day long. Love your posts. DHC

[pilotcirwin]

Like everyone has said above, It's pretty much broken down into
having the experience to read the water, being able to anticipate
what the machine you're driving is going to do, and what you need
to do to put it down safely.