Sukhoi T-50

[Hawkerflyer]

Russia's new stealth fighter jet made its public debut Tuesday, according to state-run news source RIA Novosti.
The Sukhoi T-50, developed collaboratively by Russia and India, appeared at the MAKS 2011 air show in Zhukovsky, outside Moscow.
Gen. Alexander Zelin, head of the Russian air force, told RIA Novosti he expects the T-50 prototype to be ready in 2013, with "mass-produced aircraft" arriving in 2014 or 2015.
The aircraft is expected to become a staple of airborne defense for both Russia and India, Mikhail Pogosyan, head of Russia's United Aircraft Corp., told RIA Novosti.
"The T-50 will be the newest main plane both for the Russian and the Indian air force," Pogosyan said.
The article from the state-run media source says the Sukhoi T-50 cost the two governments about $6 billion to develop, with India shouldering about 35% of the cost. It is intended to be superior to the U.S. F-22 Raptor. Each airplane is expected to sell under 100 million. -AP


I think this would be a better choice than the JSF for Canada. 2 engines, cold weather capable and knowing the russians, when it breaks you just hit it with a hammer! What's the projected price at right now for the JSF?

[moocow]

South Korea is rumored to be considering the T-50 in their fighter acquisition. It will be interesting to see a close US ally picking a Soviet aircraft. Some experts had dismissed the move as SK's attempt to stir up the suppliers. However, if you look at US's recent rejection from India's recent acquisition plan, the T-50 could really be a contender.

[old_man]

Although the plane looks cool and all that I think the issue with choosing it would be the support in the future. Canada has a history of keeping planes for a very very long time. (Hercs 50 years and counting). We can count on the Americans to still supply us with parts no matter what the future political climate is. However, I think going with a Russian supplier would be a much bigger gamble in that department especially given what might heat up in the Arctic.

Just an uninformed thought.

PS: Love what looks like a mud guard on the nose gear.

[Beefitarian]

Should we at least buy a couple so we can pratice recognising it as it zings by the F-35.

[Mig29]

Should we at least buy a couple so we can pratice recognising it as it zings by the F-35.

I think that is an excellent idea that should be forwarded to department of National Defense1!

Looks pretty deadly in my opinion!

[frosti]

I think this would be a better choice than the JSF for Canada. 2 engines, cold weather capable and knowing the russians, when it breaks you just hit it with a hammer! What's the projected price at right now for the JSF?

Not this shit again.

The most important part is how well either perfoms as a combat system and that's where I have no doubt whatsoever that the F-35 systems (radar, EW, ECM, etc etc) will be far beyond that on the PAK-FA. I bet the T-50 will be the better airshow jet, like all the Russian Tumblers, which will please many (though the F-35B should please the kids with a hovering stunt).

[linecrew]

Oopsie! A little engine trouble at the big MAKS airshow:

Link to video

[teacher]

No new aircraft type is immune to problems during the design and testing process. The more sophisticated the design the bigger the problems. In the end I'm sure the JSF will be a superior product, this of course from an arm chair general.

PAK-FA flameout embarrasses Sukhoi
Aug 2011

Russia's MAKS 2011 air show closed with an embarrassment for Sukhoi, when the pilot of its second prototype PAK-FA/T-50 was forced to abort a take-off run after two bursts of flame erupted from the fifth-generation fighter's starboard engine.

The incident happened in front of about 200,000 visitors, who had gathered at Ramenskoye air base near Moscow on 21 August to watch a flying display.


© Ivan Stepanov

Also referred to as T-50-2, or Side 52, the aircraft was forced to stop from a speed of around 100km/h, with Sukhoi test pilot Sergei Bogdan using wheel brakes and also deploying a brake parachute.

It stopped well short of the aerodrome fence, thanks to the 5,000m (16,400ft) length of the runway.

Sukhoi said the aircraft had suffered a technical malfunction but no damage, and that its pilot had acted "in accordance with manuals".

The company later attributed the issue to a "malfunctioning fuel supply system" and to the NPO Saturn Item 117 engine's full-authority digital engine control system.

To further Sukhoi's embarrassment, immediately after the incident the show's organisers promised the public that the first PAK-FA prototype would fly instead. This failed to happen, with the aircraft believed to have been sent for maintenance shortly after performing in front of Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin on 17 August.

http://beta.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... oi-361092/

[SuperchargedRS]

Maybe the T-50 and that chinese "5th" gen are fast and carry a good payload but I highly doubt they have the stealth capabilities, electronics or maneuverability of the f-35 or the Raptor, the fact that one is built in Russia and the other in china, well lets just say they are not known for fit and finish.

[winds_in_flight_wtf]

This is funny. Because I highly doubt either country will come out and say "we have made a superior fighter ... however it still does not match the F-22 Raptor " . Why would any country want to purchase and machine which is not the "best" ? You are spending billions... period. So at days end the countries which are serious generally go for the best. I do not think we will see these all over the place. China, Russia, India perhaps ...

[moocow]

Why wouldn't you see the T-50 all over the place? First the F22 got an export ban on it and the program is more or less dead. The F35 is kind of broken and the manufacturing and operation cost is going thru the roof. So if a country without the tech know how but need to one-up their neighbour (ie India), they would go to Russia and ask to buy some T-50. Look at Japan, they ask for the F22 many times but US kept saying no. They finally said screw it and decide to try building their own stealth 5th gen.

http://the-diplomat.com/2011/06/23/japa ... er-gambit/

[SuperchargedRS]

Why wouldn't you see the T-50 all over the place? First the F22 got an export ban on it and the program is more or less dead. The F35 is kind of broken and the manufacturing and operation cost is going thru the roof. So if a country without the tech know how but need to one-up their neighbour (ie India), they would go to Russia and ask to buy some T-50. Look at Japan, they ask for the F22 many times but US kept saying no. They finally said screw it and decide to try building their own stealth 5th gen.

http://the-diplomat.com/2011/06/23/japa ... er-gambit/

Well the Raptor has a export ban and I think that is a VERY good thing for a few obvious reasons.

The F-35 is going to be expensive and complicated, but that's the nature of the REAL 5th gen fighter, the T-50 and chinese knock off (which kinda reminds me of those chinese iPhone clones that wernt anything like a real iPhone lol) are more like a gen 4.2.

It's like going and buying one of those Hyundais that kinda sorta looks like a Mercedes, because you want a Mercedes but dont like the price point or maintenance.

[AEROBAT]

People under estimated Russian planes during the Korean war and again during the Vietnam war. After the Berlin wall fell and the US and West Germany got a chance to try out the planes East Germany was flying they went into panic mode again.

[WileyCoyote]

Wouldn't it be better though to have 100 Hyundais than 10 Mercedes? Do we really need all the whiz bang gadgets?

[Beefitarian]

What about 80 hundais and 2 mercedes?

Maybe the T-50 and that chinese "5th" gen are fast and carry a good payload but I highly doubt they have the stealth capabilities, electronics or maneuverability of the f-35 or the Raptor, the fact that one is built in Russia and the other in china, well lets just say they are not known for fit and finish.

I'd love to pretend the Chinese planes are the kind of thing they produce for Wal-mart that might not even make it to your car before it breaks. I am pretty sure they are more like the sort of thing they make for Apple. The fit finish and advanced electronic production capability seems to have been adressed. Go to the apple store and play with some of that stuff.

[MUSKEG]

Why is it that many North Americans think that we have the market cornered when it comes to weapons delivery etc.etc. That may have been true 10/20 years ago but do not underestimate Russian/Asian technology. Might this thinking come from some of the old Eastern bloc military stuff that only proved that with enough power even a wheel barrow would fly. I don't think it's like that anymore.

[trey kule]

I can remember when I was young how Canadians and Americans all so smuggly talked about our advanced knowledge and systems.....right up to the time the russians put a satellite in orbit.....
Then the US went about their space program the way the US does....lots of singing and flag waving. ....and they were all so smug about that....unitl the russians put the first man is space...

I would be hesitant to simply put the T-50 down because...well,, you know...we just must be better here.....You dont go mach 2 with poorly made equipment...
They may have been guilty of trotting it out prematurely before all the flight testing was done. I would not write it off as being insignificant,or assume it is not a threat to the 22 or 35. Who knows what type of equipment it has on board?

[SuperchargedRS]

Post cold war the US has outspent and out researched everyone. When it comes to the Russians, we have lapped them at least once already, the chinese learn much about stealth technology from scraps of a few wrecked US aircraft and are barely considered a first world country. One can not expect countries that have little stealth experience to just figure it out relativity overnight, the thrust vectoring and hover mode of the F-35, the electronics (see my other post in the synthetic 737 thread). Top speed yea I'm sure they all super cruse, armament I'm sure they all have a good payload, but seeing and not being seen I highly doubt it, maneuverability I doubt it.

[FICU]

Firefox lives!

Definitely don't underestimate the stealth, weapons, and combat avionics capability of today' Russian engineers. The US has had to play catch-up in several areas like the helmet mounted sight and off-boresight dogfight missile(R-73 Archer) capability the Russians have had for decades. At least the T-50 looks like it belongs in the air rather than on a lake(F-22)!

[trey kule]

Supercharged.


The US stealth technology for the F117 came from.....the Russians.. It was actually developed by a Russian mathmetician.
As of a week ago, the US Vice President was in China and commented that the US and China are the two biggest economies in the world....barely a first world country?
You seem to have a very unusual awareness of what Russia and China are doing compared to the US. Please share the details with us.
I really would like to know what you are basing your reasoning on to "highly doubt it". Not just simply doubting it...but "highly" doubting it.
That alone is almost enough to convince me of the merit of your argument, but a little more would be nice.

[SuperchargedRS]

The information on the raptor/35 vs the Russian and chinese clones was from one of my students parents, he is a USMC 18 squad commander and figured highly of his opinion as it's what he does for a living.

For the 3rd world comment, that has to due with quality of life and there is a lack of it in China, high amount of corruption, no environmental protection at all (remember the smog in the Olympic games), next to no human rights, no free speech really, it's like the Mexico of the east when it comes to how the majority live.

[akoch]

I read statements like that and only shake my head. Amazing. If it all was that single-dimensioned and simplistic. Anyway, amazingly ignorant and arrogant.

[Expat]

For the kind of operations we do, the far less expensive T-50 would do. From the Kosovo bombing campaign, including, (accidentally) bombing an embassy, to the six month Libya farce, where the bad guy is still alive and kicking, any plane that can carry bombs will do the job. Let's go for the numbers, and give more pilots a job...

[Spokes]

For the kind of operations we do, the far less expensive T-50 would do. From the Kosovo bombing campaign, including, (accidentally) bombing an embassy, to the six month Libya farce, where the bad guy is still alive and kicking, any plane that can carry bombs will do the job. Let's go for the numbers, and give more pilots a job...

you mean operations we are doing now. How is your crystal ball at predicting what kind of operations we will be doing in 10 or 20 or 30 years hence?

Why the reference to the accidental embassy bombing. This had nothing to do with the type of aircraft, but was an intelligence fail AFAIK. Are you trying to poison something in the conversation?

[winds_in_flight_wtf]

When you have a superior fighter - every country in the world all of a sudden has a .... wait for it .... "superior fighter" . Why do I still have no doubt that the F22 would obliterate this .... f22 copycat? I also doubt that some of the F22's greatest secrets will ever be revealed. I will still take the F22 into combat thanks