macleans article on todays youth work ethic+skills

[chowda]

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/08/25/why- ... -a-hammer/

not really surprised. seen a lot of this personally.

The shoelace thing is pretty disturbing though.

[WileyCoyote]

I guess us former farm kids will be in high demand... But oh wait, everyone wants a "degree" these days. I still don't understand the not showing up for work part.

[Shiny Side Up]

See way too much of this. Unfortunately its creeping into older people too. The not showing up for work thing stems from the lack of real motivation growing up, and frankly a lot of parents are incredibly lax with their kids. There's no competition in school anymore. Kids aren't shown that winning beats the hell out of losing, everyone gets congratulated for participating. I also rarely see "kids" even into their early 20s who have jobs. They also don't care when they lose their jobs or quit.

People in general are losing manual skills at an alarming rate. Honest to God, some of our customers can't figure out how to use the locking mechanism on the bathroom door here, I had to put instructions up so we didn't have to keep fixing the door when people tried to break it down. Problem solving abillity is at an all time low.

[chowda]

See way too much of this. Unfortunately its creeping into older people too. The not showing up for work thing stems from the lack of real motivation growing up, and frankly a lot of parents are incredibly lax with their kids. There's no competition in school anymore. Kids aren't shown that winning beats the hell out of losing, everyone gets congratulated for participating. I also rarely see "kids" even into their early 20s who have jobs. They also don't care when they lose their jobs or quit.

People in general are losing manual skills at an alarming rate. Honest to God, some of our customers can't figure out how to use the locking mechanism on the bathroom door here, I had to put instructions up so we didn't have to keep fixing the door when people tried to break it down. Problem solving abillity is at an all time low.

Monkeys have better mechanical aptitude than many apprentice kids I've worked with. Saw a show a little while back and it was amazing what they can do. Maybe planet of the apes aint so ridiculous after all.

Funny but very sad at the same time

[Schimunga]

WileyCoyote--One reason they don't show up anymore to work anymore is because many of them still live at home. Living at home means food is covered by mom and dad as well as a roof over there head. When you have that kind of safety net why work? Not to mention everything they ever wanted was bought by mom and dad. So no need to make money to buy that new cellphone or iPad.

Shiny Side Up--Don't worry about the problem solving ability. There will soon be an app that can do that for you.

[WileyCoyote]

I admit, I don't understand it either. When I lived in my parents basement, I still went to work every day. I guess the difference is that as soon as I got back ahead, I moved right back out.

[iflyforpie]

Each generation loses skills because of the progress made. How many of you Boomers can shod a horse? Churn butter? Tie a diamond hitch?

My 5 year old daughter (who is so mechanically inclined it is almost scary) told me about the only type vehicle that can drive itself... the swather which she saw on my sister-in-law's ranch. So the whole 'farm kids' thing isn't like it used to be either with rigs like these that would never be touched by a farm hand except for basic servicing.

Of course, aviation is stuck in the dark ages for the most part. While I can plug my OBD II diagnostic tool into my truck to figure out what is wrong with it, I need to use the ol' plastic screwdriver trick, compression tests, and reading plugs to figure out what is wrong with my aircraft...

We are going to a world of automation and computers and disposable technology. Nobody rebuilds or replaces car transmissions or engines anymore, it is just better to buy a newer vehicle with everything working. People must think I am nuts keeping my 30 year old car running when vehicles 20 years newer are getting ready for the scrap heap.

[tyndall]

Each generation loses skills because of the progress made. How many of you Boomers can shod a horse? Churn butter? Tie a diamond hitch?

True, but we are generations away from having many trades automated to the point of sitting and pressing a button while watching youtube. An electrician might wire a house based on a plan that was generated by computer down to the last detail, but somebody still has to run the wire and install the switches using basic hand tools. Someone replaced my new cars transmission with a remanufactured unit under warranty. The problem is new generations preparing for jobs of the future that still won't arrive by the time they are ready to work. While talking to a large machine shop owner he said he couldn't find enough employees. Everyone that applied could only operate CNC machinery, not one could operate a standard mill or lathe. While CNC is far from new technology, these people could have been employed had they learned the whole job instead of just the newest subset. Last time I checked, I didn't see a desperate call for a hundred million internet surfers and video game experts needed in the next ten years. And although I'm a bit on the young side to be a boomer, yes, I can tie a diamond hitch, and even gas weld and write DOS batch files. Knowledge of old ways can save your ass when the new ways fail.

People must think I am nuts keeping my 30 year old car running when vehicles 20 years newer are getting ready for the scrap heap.

You kids and your new fangled cars. My wife's truck is going on 49 years. Reminds me, I need to change the oil in the air cleaner...


I went back to school to do the AME thing and couldn't believe my eyes. Kids (or their parents probably) that spent eight grand for a chance of getting some hands-on training, spending most of the day on facebook and youtube. Even the international kids that paid over fifteen grand. Some showed up whenever they wanted, even for exam days and in the end blew their work credit. Pretty simple, show up almost every day and get a year and a half knocked off your apprenticeship. Don't, and still have to write some badass exams at TC and still have to put in four years. For people that are so against physical work, you'd think they would have thought that out. Others were so mechanically inept that it took them over six months to learn how to use a screwdriver, a skill that still wasn't mastered a year later. While using a hacksaw they'd be staring in some other direction. It's like most had ADD. They had more interest in texting than running an engine they just assembled.

I think they were expecting to have their hands held throughout the course and graduate with employers fawning all over them and their borrowed mastercraft 96 piece tool kit with job offers. By the time you're old enough to decide that fixing airplanes is what you want for a career, you should have had at least some basic mechanical experience. Fixing your bike, lawnmower, whatever. Checking facebook is not a marketable or beneficial skill. If you have no skills, at least want to learn and put in some effort. Being from a time when knowing how to wrench was essential, I found the course incredibly easy with most of it being (un?)common sense. Of a class of eighteen I think about ten graduated but only about five of us should be allowed near an airplane, or even a weedwhacker for that matter. Yet there are AMO's actually hiring the idiots because over time they have gotten used to and expect the stupidity.

[Pat Richard]

Agree 100%.

I see what you and the article describe all the time. Don't know WTF is in there heads, but I say parenting is a big part of why this is happening.

The churning butter, shoeing a horse, etc, is not a related comparison IMO. We are talking basic hand eye coordination and mental spatial ability, that appears to be mostly lost on todays generation.
The point Im making is that anyone with the above mentioned abilities should have no issue learning how to churn butter, shoe a horse, or fix an airplane. It has nothing to do with generations, as you lead on to with your daughters abilities.
This still does not touch on the shitty attitudes, and that is all bad parenting.

[fish4life]

It is common sense that is failing us and dwindling, I don't want to think about the number of times I've seen people try to do the equivalent of putting a square block in a circle hole only to wonder why it isn't working.

[Mattimus]

There's an all-too-true quote of: "Common-sense is so rare these days that it can be considered a superpower."

I don't think there's any one cause to this decline. Thanks to technology we've been in an "age of instant gratification" for a few years now which could also be part of it.

[VanCityRuckus]

I am a 22 year old apprentice and I have to say my generation sucks. We have no motivation, no ability to learn, no concept of money, and we are irresponsible.

People say it's because of the instant gratification, or the technology, or the education system. They are wrong.
Those are the symptoms of the underlying problem.
The problem isn't my generation. The real problem is the older generation, generation X.
Who raised my generation, who taught my generation, who employed my generation, who policed my generation, who punishes my generation? Generation X.

I see Gen X saying "it's these cellphones, no it's our lousy teachers, no it's their diet, no it's those lousy parents". Pointing fingers as always and never taking responsibility.

I keep hearing how the vancouver riots were because of police, or alcohol, or hockey, or whatever you can think of. The reason why it happened was because my generation knew there would be no repercussions.
No one has been charged yet. My generation knew we could get away with it, and we did.

Gen X has made my life so easy. If I don't want to work I'll go on EI or welfare. I could have failed highschool and still get a diploma. My parents will always provide food, shelter and transportation if I need it. My parents or the government will pay for my Philosophy course at university if I wanted. Credit cards were handed to me when I was 19. If I do something wrong all I get is a slap on the wrist. If I do it again I just get another slap on the wrist. I have no reason to learn anything and I never suffer any consequences for my actions. No wonder my generation is useless.

Now I am just pointing fingers like everyone else because it's clearly not my fault. Oh wait, doesn't that sound familiar? Who taught me that?
A small percent of my generation is starting to realize this. We are holding Gen X accountable, however we are trying to take responsibility.
But being young and stupid we don't have the ability nor the authority to fix this problem. All we can do is make a facebook page to help identify rioters(and that clearly hasn't done anything yet).

[Cranium]

Sure - and Generation X can blame the baby boomers.

Does it feel better that it's someone else's fault? Does it change anything?

The fact is we have a bunch of people joining the industry who have no skills, no work ethic, and worse yet, no sense of the responsibility they bear by working on / near aircraft. If you try to correct their skills, they are (somewhat) receptive. If you tell them to get to work, they will (until your back is turned). But how do you correct the attitude that it doesn't matter if they @#$! up and kill someone?

Skills can be taught. Attitudes need beatings.

[VanCityRuckus]

Does it feel better that it's someone else's fault? Does it change anything?

No, it doesn't.

Skills can be taught. Attitudes need beatings.

I agree completely.

[North Shore]

Gen X, wahh, wahh, wahhh. It's not my fault, wahh wahh wahh.

Gen whYne...

[iflyforpie]

And Baby Boomers would rather slowly fade away than burn out....

[DBA]

I am a 22 year old apprentice and I have to say my generation sucks. We have no motivation, no ability to learn, no concept of money, and we are irresponsible.

Speak for yourself.

[WileyCoyote]

I agree. I, and quite a few people I know, are not like vancityrucus described. In fact quite the opposite. I guess thats why I've never had a problem holding or finding a job, since my lazy "gen Y" counterparts are no competition for the ones with a work ethic.

[dhc2man123]

I am also a 22 year old apprentice, and although I have seen a lot of what was described in this article in school and out in the world the short time I have been working in it, I think this article is an exceptionally broad and unrealistic generalisation of my generation. I readily admit I know a bunch of guys who I wouldn't trust touching a wrench, hammer, screwdriver, or even can opener (unfortunately some of these people were in my program). At the same time I know almost as many who can sling a wrench just as well if not better than some of the seasoned veteran adults I've worked with, and most of them aren't farm boys. I completely agree that the mechanical hobbies like tinkering with cars or ATVs or sleds or even lawn mowers are going by the wayside because of modern technology or general lack of interest, but it is still being done.
There are still kids out there who get dirty, know what suck/squeeze/bang/blow means, the difference between petrol and diesel, what a valve and a camshaft and a piston are, know how to change their own tires and brakes, know how to weld frames, exhausts, or body panels just as well as a professional shop, and guys who can drop and swap a tranny in their driveway in almost the same time a fully equipped mechanic's garage can. I've seen all of this, and I'm just out of school. I also don't live on a farm.


I'm not saying I'm great at all these things, I will be the first to admit I was never an artist, and my sheet metal skills are sub par. I know how to rivet and file and all the stuff, but it isn't the prettiest thing when I'm done. I have a lot to learn, but I can sling a wrench, understand righty tighty lefty loosey, don't strip the majority of bolts I touch, know how to use a hammer, and I can quickly grasp how systems work. I know I'll only get better as I gain more experience, and look forward to it.


The kids are still out there, it just seems like you have to sift through more of the ones who can't use a can opener to find them.

[DonutHole]

I think the real problem is access to credit.

Growing up, my parents were not well off. I can still remember replacing the transmission in the concord at least twice in a sloped gravel driveway. I remember learning what a rod knock was when the 2.8l in my dads old pontiac 6000 le took a poop. That test light I was handed to fix the MGB wiring at age 12 left mental scars I still bear today. When the roof leaked, when the pipes froze and we had to rebuild the basement, when the ceiling fan quit and we had to install a new one, when the dishwasher, tv, radio, telephone quit working we had to fix it..... this was my childhood.

Every day I find myself at work thanking my father for not letting me be useless. When I got older, my parents all of a sudden had money. My brother played hockey, drank, partied, and never showed an ounce of interest in what had become 'my chores' By 17 transmission swaps were my 'chore' fixing the house, my 'chore' listening to dad swear at the wheel bearing, cringing as he reached for the yet bigger hammer, my chores. I remember hating every bloody minute of it... I was never listened to, my opnion never respected but we got it done. Now, I'm my own man, and I can fix pretty much everything, even without the biggest hammer the mexican tool sale sells. I can think about a system and figure out the likely modes of failure, not because im a genius, but because machines are machines, if it turns, it wears out, if it uses electricity it shorts, if it breaks, it can be fixed. We had computers, in fact, tons of them, but we never got to play games, no. Spent my time writing DOS batch files (thanks to the poster above for bringing it back) and running BBS systems. Swapping hardware became second nature and I can't stand how dumbed down they have become.

My brother, though I love him to death, is completely useless. He has no skill, or the skills to obtain skills, and, I assume due to hockey, he cannot function without a team of individuals to help each other through difficulties. The clear difference between us, is that my parents had money while he was in his formative years, he never go the benefit of being poor.

I can use a saw, a welder, a multimeter, a soldering iron, a hammer, a jointer, a planer, a pretty much anything and while I hated it growing up, I now love it because of the satisfaction creating something, or bringing something back from the dead provides. I look back on those times quite differently. I rarely remember the fights we had while trying to get that fucking transmission back in the car, but I do remember that dad took the time to teach me skills, real skills and more importantly, and I really appreciate this, he spent the time with me, and I wouldn't trade that experience for the world, even though at the time it seemed like torture and I would have done anything I could have to avoid it.

If we had money growing up, none of that would have been an issue, we would have done what everybody else does, replace it with something seemingly better or new. At the time I hated being 'poor' but now I realize that if we weren't I'd be useless as a human...

When I have kids, they're going to learn from a young age that skills are important. My son or daughter, is going to spend time getting me fractional wrenches, they're going to understand that if you don't keep the weight even and hte skillsaw pointed straight, it's going to bite you, and they're going to learn, maybe not right away, that spending time with their parents is a POSITIVE experience.

I still don't want to be poor, but going without really made me rich in the end.

[Pat Richard]

AWESOME POST!!!!

[NeverBlue]

Agreed, Great Post!

I would have to disagree with the poverty thing being the cause though.

My youth was very similar but most of my experiences came from people other then my father...they came from friends and their fathers who owned businesses and had lots of money... but were determined on making their son realize what hard work and knowledge gets you.

I can remember a number of times cursing and swearing because we figured we should buy a new one instead of fixing the broken one... Giovanni would have non of that.

"If it's ah-broke... we can ah-fix it yes?...we don't-ah need-ah to buy a new one...you think-ah money grows on-ah da tree?"

I guess that attitude is why they had money...and now their sons do to.

[burhead1]

I tried a young lad out at my shop for one day, he was/is 15 years old and wanted to be an auto apprentice. I asked him to clean up the bays, figure that would be a good start. I walk out of the office to see him trying to roll up an air hose, 5-10 minutes later I asked what the hell he was doing. He said he had never rolled up an air hose, I said have you ever rolled up a garden hose? The response was "No we have this thing on the wall at our house and you just have to push a button and it sucks the hose in." I guess he enjoyed his first and only day at my shop.

[GyvAir]

They make those reels for air hoses too. For a mere couple hundred dollars per bay, you could've saved that young man's future career!
Seriously though, I hope you showed him how to wind up (and unwind.. that's a whole other skill apparently) an air hose. And an extension/trouble light cord while you were at it. I rant just as much as the next guy about the ineptitude of new apprentices these days. Still, we do have to take time out now and then to show the seemingly obvious to the clueless. It's getting fuzzy now,looking back, but I think there were likely things I didn't know when I was 15.

[Cambox]

I agree, but who is to blame for this? It probably is the whole attitude thing and not only the work ethic, but driving, respect and the whole gamit.....

Being older, when I was growing up, there were consequences for not only doing something wrong, but also for doing something right. I guess this is one case where we remembered the bad consequences more than the good! You didn't want to get in trouble at school, because if you did, when you got home you really caught it. Now if you get in sh 1 t at school, who are the parents likely to blame? Oh ya, the teacher...... Obviously poor little Johnny (or Jenny) could never do anything wrong! So what does the youngster learn from that? Or when Dad (or Mom) gets stopped for speeding, who's to blame? Of course it's the Policeman! Never mind that the parent was breaking the law, of course they're not to blame! What does the kid learn from this? Or of course it's ok to butt into line, who cares about the other people? And the child learns? It's all about respect for others and the consequences of your action; apparently something that's never taught anymore, either at home or at school or work for that matter.... A few more kicks in the butt may have save a generation!

I agree 100% with the poster above who made the comment about teaching the young fellow how to roll up the air hose. It might not be a great example, but if we don't teach, how will they learn? The consequences will be a bunch of people who don't know how to do things because we couldn't be bothered to take the time to help them....

We just had a great episode here in Alberta where a teacher got fired because he gave students zeros if they didn't attend class or hand in assignments etc. How dare he try and teach consequences?? What could he have been thinking??

There, I've vented!

R...

Sure - and Generation X can blame the baby boomers.

Does it feel better that it's someone else's fault? Does it change anything?

The fact is we have a bunch of people joining the industry who have no skills, no work ethic, and worse yet, no sense of the responsibility they bear by working on / near aircraft. If you try to correct their skills, they are (somewhat) receptive. If you tell them to get to work, they will (until your back is turned). But how do you correct the attitude that it doesn't matter if they @#$! up and kill someone?

Skills can be taught. Attitudes need beatings.