Anti-War Left & Libya

[Expat]

One aspect of this war that has not been mentionned in the west, is the mounting opposition to NATO and the US in Africa. They have never been very friendly, but now the opposition is growing.
The Arab League may follow, if this conflict does not end soon.
On another note, it is interesting to see how the protests in Bahrain and Israel get lettle press coverage in the west. Selective news???

[azimuthaviation]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRaSEA_2KbY&NR=1

They call this guy a crackpot even though hes said "I told you so" about every event he spoke about in the last 30 years. People like to lament after aa debacle that "hindsight is 20/20" but how about listening to someone who has foresight that actually is accurate??

[2R]

Has George (redder than a baboons arse)Galloway been awarded the Order of Lenin medal yet ?
He is a marxist agitator and an enemy of the working class.Do not be fooled by his clever sophist visionary speil,he is out to destroy the western powers ability to defend itself through an never ending barrage of Soviet style propaganda.He is always trying to demorilize and take away the moral rights of the western politicians to defend their rights and interests.
His silence about the Soviet occupations in Afghanistan and the other important issues about modern Russia show him up for the Stalinist propagandist shitdisturberhe has always been.
He lost the Labour party in Scotland a lot of votes as he and his communist red clydesiders cost the working people a lot of jobs as the shipyards lost contract through their political activities masquerading as union activities.Him and Arthur Scargill should be tried for treason against the working man.
Phone his radio show and ask him about the Russian puppet in the middleast Syria and i would wager you would not even get through to speak to the red menace.
To call a marxist maggot like George Galloway a humanitarian is an offence to maggots.

[Expat]

Oh! Do I love to see such strong one sided views expressed in writing! It shows the force of propaganda, which, fortunately is losing steam, thanks to better education, travel, and unbiased information found everywhere.

[straightpilot]

Moammar Gadhafi is nowhere to be seen, but rebels have seized his compound in Tripoli.

Gadhafi's Bab al-Aziziya compound was stormed by hundreds of rebels following hours gunfire Tuesday.

There are conflicting reports about Gadhafi's location and status, with some claiming he remains hidden in the city in good health.

NATO officials had strong words for Gadhafi, stating his end is near.

How many ways can you spell kgaddhaffi?

[azimuthaviation]

How many ways can you spell kgaddhaffi?

How many ways do you spell Hedley?

[Siddley Hawker]

'Bout the same number as you can spell cpl-atc.

[azimuthaviation]

What the hell sense does that make??

[The Old Fogducker]

What the hell sense does that make??

Lots actually ... you just need the secret decoder ring ... and those things just aren't given away to anybody who sticks their hand up and yells "I want one too .... gimme, gimme."

[grimey]

edit... oops, wrong thread...

[straightpilot]

As Lieutenant-Colonel Dan McLeod and his CF-18 wing man soared over Libya recently, the pair spotted a raging firefight between rebels and pro-Gaddafi forces thousands of feet below.

Confident they could tell which side was which, the two Canadian fighter pilots aimed 500-pound, laser-guided bombs at the government “technicals” — pickup trucks equipped with heavy machine guns — that were doing most of the shooting, and hit their targets with explosive effect.

Moments later, the rest of the regime troops took flight, and the rebels captured their position.

“We could see the pro-Gaddafi forces flee in all directions at high speed. It was really exciting,” said Lt.-Col McLeod on Friday. “It felt as though I could hear the anti-Gaddafi forces cheering on the ground…. It was a rout, a total rout.”

Canadians continue to debate whether this country should even be involved in the NATO air war. For the pilots on the front lines of the conflict, though, such achievements are a point of pride, reaffirming for them the value of a mission in which they have played a major role.

Lt.-Col. McLeod offered a rare inside-the-cockpit depiction of the bombing operation, describing attacks on tanks and military installations, shadowing a Gaddafi army truck down a lonely desert road and doing it all with the aid of whiz-bang targeting technology recently added to Canada’s aging CF-18 jets.

“I kind of liken my job to that of a firefighter,” said the pilot, who is also commander of Canada’s Sicily Air Wing, the CF-18 group based in Trapani, Sicily. “A firefighter never wants someone’s house to burn down. But they want to put out fires. We are all — I have to say — very excited to be here doing this job, because we’re doing what we’ve trained to do our whole adult life.”

His account also would seem to confirm the widely held view that the bombing campaign has long since shifted away from merely enforcing a no-fly zone and protecting civilians — as the original UN resolution dictated — to more directly aiding the rebel side.

Canada has six CF-18s, and one spare, in Italy, as well as three planes for air-to-air refuelling and two reconnaissance aircraft, a contribution that experts say is lopsidedly large for a relatively small air force. It is one of three alliance members, along with Britain and France, that have done the bulk of the bombing missions, they say. At sea, a Canadian warship is part of the naval blockade around Libya.

The total cost is projected to be about $60-million, said Jay Paxton, a spokesman for Peter MacKay, the defence minister.

As well as striking stationary targets like ammunition dumps, the CF-18s hunt for tanks, self-propelled artillery guns and other moving targets.

Lt.-Col. McLeod said Canada has excelled at the latter work with the help of new “targeting pods,” cameras that day or night can zoom in on ground objects and can be directed simply by the pilot moving his head toward what he wants to view. He once followed a suspicious Gaddafi-allied truck for about ten minutes, finally seeing the occupants stop by the side of the road and start firing a gun. The troops were soon dispatched by the Canadians.

On such missions, the pilots are often allowed to launch an attack without first getting permission, though they alert the nearby reconnaissance planes that they are about to drop their bombs. That two-minute warning proved invaluable on one of Lt.-Col McLeod’s sorties, when commanders ordered him to abort a strike against a seemingly isolated artillery battery firing on a town — because the bomb might also hit an underground oil pipeline.

“I’m sure they were still firing, but at least there wasn’t an environmental disaster also,” he said.

As the fighting died down in Tripoli on Friday, the scope and savagery of the violence during the near-week-long battle for control of the capital began to come into sharper focus, with both rebel and loyalist forces accused of atrocities.

In a report based on eyewitness accounts from escaped prisoners, Amnesty International said that it had evidence that forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi killed rebels who had been held in custody in two camps. In one camp, it said, guards killed five detainees held in solitary confinement, and in another, they opened the gates, telling the rebels they were free to go, then tossed grenades and fired on the men as they attempted to run for freedom.

On Thursday, there were reports that the bullet-riddled bodies of more than 30 pro-Gaddafi fighters had been found at a military encampment in central Tripoli.

Meanwhile, NATO warplanes struck targets in the lone remaining outpost of support for Col. Gaddafi, his home town of Sirte, as rebel troops moved into position for an assault, news agencies reported.

[westcoasting]

i am ashamed at our gov and the west..... what the hell is this gonna do, a bunch of rebels running the country??? you think they will be able to run free education and health care??? libya will now be sent back 500 years

[straightpilot]

Canada has deployed 655 troops, seven CF-18 fighter jets, three refuelling aircraft and the naval frigate HMCS Vancouver to the Libyan battle. The jets have dropped 550 bombs and flown over 1,000 missions, without suffering a single casualty. The NATO campaign was commanded by Charles Bouchard, a three-star air force general from Chicoutimi.

Libya is the worst thing that could happen to proponents of Canada’s military as a self-effacing force with limited resources that should confine itself to peacekeeping and rescue operations.

[. ._]

i am ashamed at our gov and the west..... what the hell is this gonna do, a bunch of rebels running the country??? you think they will be able to run free education and health care??? libya will now be sent back 500 years

Why? Didn't you know we support Al Qaeda?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -side.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... links.html

ALLLLLLAHUAKBAR!

ON TO SYRIA!!!!

[Dash-Ate]

If you support the boming then you are a terrorist.
Another country is destroyed while you support the troops who "just followed orders".

the facts suck huh. Keep waving your flag and be trapped in your mind!

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=26353

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. (Oscar Wilde, 1854-1900.)


As Eid, the great post Ramadan celebration of that month of abstinence, self sacrifice and reflection, dawned on Libya, marked there this year on August 31st, the NATO “liberated” country, after seven months, looks a lot like “liberated” Iraq after eight years.


Queues of cars now wait for petrol in another oil rich country; other queues form, carrying containers for water. The multibillion dollar development of Libya’s vast underground aquifers had been dubbed the “eighth wonder of the world. Libya`s water supply infrastructure has been been systematically bombed throught the country.

Shops are without food.

The all is: “absolute disaster”, according to an eminent legal observer, very familiar with the country.

And with electricity largely off, those seeking knowledge as to whether friends and relatives are alive, injured, fled, dead, find internet, and phones dead.


As the terribly injured overwhelm hospitals, many are bombed, damaged or without power and pharmaceuticals.

No power: no incubators, life support machines or surgery.

Another country with a modern, developed infrastructure reduced to a pre-industrial age – with the rebuilding contracts reportedly already being divvied out – in the West.


NATO Members, however, eat, as their bombs destroy humanity and vital necessities for the living. Over a “working lunch”, on the 14th of April, they “deplored violence” and underlined the: “need … to restore water, gas, electricity and other services …”


Still depriving others of the means to cook, or of any semblance of normality, at another “working lunch” (June 8, 2011) they further discussed their: “clear mandate to protect civilians (and) populated areas …taking the utmost care to avoid civilian casualties.” This as: “Tripoli experienced what were perhaps the heaviest daylight bombardments by NATO since the air strikes began in March.” (Guardian, 8 June 2011)


As they masticated and munched, they vowed to bring “a speedy resolution … to put an end to the violence”, under “Operation Unified Protector.” They are delusional and arguably psychotic.


Just twenty four hours later, on the 9th of June, the decade long destruction of Afghanistan eclipsed Libya. NATO Defence Ministers met to declare it: “NATO’s top operational priority.” General David Petraeus, returned from the ruins and about to be confirmed as CIA Head: “explained … progress.”


“A working lunch commenced at 13.00 hours.”


A number of lunches later, on the 23rd August, NATO spokeswoman, Oana Lungesco, re-affirmed their “mandate to protect civilians.”

How this squares with hitting: “over five thousand [official figures] legitimate targets [in a] 24/7 operation [with] over twenty thousand sorties”, is confusing.

The actual number of strikes has not been reported. Its in the tens of thousands.

Equally so is how destruction of services essential to maintaining life, State institutions, schools, hospitals, archeological sites and treasures, attacking of all which is illegal under swathes of international law, are included in this “legitimacy.”


By September 1st, NATO operations from 31st March had reached: “a total of 21,090, including 7,920 strike sorties.” (1)


In context, this latest “shock and awe” brigandage is being rained down by a twenty eight country alliance, on a country of 7 million. The population of Tripoli is over 1 million (or was, until unknown numbers of souls were liberated from their lives in a bombardment which, started with the unleashing of one hundred and ten Cruise missiles, on March 20th, eight years to the day - GMT- of the start of the Iraq invasion.)


Coincidentally, the considerably Western backed and funded “uprising” in Benghazi, which preceded the bombing, began on the 15th of February, the eighth anniversary of millions, in the largest global peace rally in history, from Manchester to Melbourne, Hong Kong to Honolulu, rallying against an attack on Iraq.


The invaders though, have “learned from past mistakes.” The “New Libya”, will not be like the “New Iraq.” It is surely beginning to look chillingly like it. A legitimate head of State again has a million dollar bounty on his head and is “wanted dead or alive.” Since “boots are on the ground” only unofficially, the pack of playing cards with the “most wanted” on, has not yet been printed. But times are hard, and in 2003, the United States Playing Card Company, commissioned by the US Defence Intelligence Agency, received orders for 750,000 of the packs within a week. (2)

[2R]

So who is next ?
I would not be buying real estate in Teheran
The cold war is officially over and most of those who chose the wrong side during the cold war are being eradicated by the side that won.
Once all these small fish are killed. The factories that supplied them with weapons will be destroyed.How those factories are destroyed will be interesting.Destruction from within like the collapse of the Soviets might be hard to do again.It may take a while

[Expat]

2R,
You are so right. Winning or losing is not important. The media will always convince the voters that they have won. And they will believe it. What is really important, is to keep the machine going, contracts to friends flowing. The soviets had it coming to them, when they decided to abandon their expansion plans, and their overseas excursions.
We ought to learn from them. We, and especially the US, have created a monster war machine, that cannot be stopped, without creating chaos.
So the race is on to fight the smallest fish, but to make it look tougher, by paying and helping the other side, so they look like a worthy ennemy.

[frosti]

As Lieutenant-Colonel Dan McLeod and his CF-18 wing man soared over Libya recently, the pair spotted a raging firefight between rebels and pro-Gaddafi forces thousands of feet below.

Confident they could tell which side was which, the two Canadian fighter pilots aimed 500-pound, laser-guided bombs at the government “technicals” — pickup trucks equipped with heavy machine guns — that were doing most of the shooting, and hit their targets with explosive effect.

I'm not sure what was better, witnessing that video, or reading all the lefty anti-war bullcrap in this thread. Some of you people really need to come back down to earth and live in reality.

[Dash-Ate]

We spread freedom with our troops!Now this is progress. Sweet sweet freedom.

god knows they LOVE arabs and only want to liberate them!!

ps for those following along, "interrorgate" = torture, in case you did not know. There are no bill of rights or lawyers on stand by, did you ever think so? This ain't democracy it's violent rule.

Soften em up, and if they die then hey let allah figure it out!!




http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=105178

A military officer who had approved night raids told one of the authors that targeting individuals believed to know one of the insurgents is a key factor in planning the raids. "If you can't get the guy you want," said the officer, "you get the guy who knows him."

In a village in Qui Tapa district of Konduz province, SOF units, accompanied by Afghan army troops, conducted a raid that detained 80 to 100 people, according to the report. The interviewees said a masked informant pointed out those people to be taken a U.S. base to be interrogated.

[Dash-Ate]

When wil you get in?? There is no Us and Them. It's all the same people putting these dictators in power.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ddafi.html

Tony Blair's six secret visits to Col Gaddafi
Tony Blair’s close relationship to Colonel Muammar Gaddafi has come under fresh scrutiny after it emerged he had six private meetings with the dictator in the three years after he left Downing Street

Mr Blair is coming under increasing pressure to make public details of all his meetings and discussions with Gaddafi. It follows the disclosure in The Sunday Telegraph last week that on at least two occasions Mr Blair flew to Tripoli on a private jet paid for by the Libyan regime.