PRM
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Right Seat Captain, lilfssister, North Shore
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Right Seat Captain
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Shiny Side Up
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As a PRM your list of responsibilities lies in what your Director of Maintenance lays out for you. If he trains you to change tires for example - then you can. If he doesn't then you can't. Either way it will be pretty clear on what you can and can't do and what you're responsible for.
We can't stop here! This is BAT country!
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TopperHarley
- Rank (9)
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- Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:56 pm
From standard 726.03(4) of the CARs:
(4) The applicant for the "Person Responsible for Maintenance Control System" position within an Air Operator shall demonstrate, during an interview conducted by Transport Canada regional personnel, he/she is knowledgeable in respect of the air operator's approved policies and on the topics listed below:
(a) Duties and responsibilities of the appointed position;
(b) Duties of persons who have been assigned functional responsibilities;
(c) Responsibilities of the Operator in relation to those of the AMO;
(d) Identification of acceptable reference data for maintenance schedules;
(e) Use of fleet sampling techniques;
(f) Control of repetitive inspections;
(g) Reliability programs;
(h) Types and methods of control of mandatory maintenance tasks;
(i) Defect control;
(j) Technical dispatch requirements;
(k) Maintenance release requirements;
(l) Control of elementary work and servicing;
(m) Responsibility for record keeping; and
(n) The function of quality assurance.
(5) The interview is designed to further establish the applicant's knowledge and competence. The applicant will be informed of any mistakes, and the correct answers will be discussed. Questions and responses will be recorded. Should the interview be unsuccessful, the applicant will be informed immediately and the decision will be confirmed by a written notification to the applicant and the Air Operator within 10 days.
There is also a written exam requirement based on the CARs (it's an open book exam, but you really do need to know where to find things, as the CARs are 1000+ pages long!).
Your responsibilities as PRM will be laid out in your company's Maintenance Control Manual (MCM). This manual basically explains how your company runs things from the maintenance side (not to be confused with the Operations Manual). As the PRM, you must know the MCM like the back of your hand. Be familiar with your maintenance schedules, your evaluation system, how to arrange for maintenance, how to properly track and control any maintenance tasks, etc. This requires a good knowledge of the required maintenance work for your a/c, which can be found in the CARs.
Currently, I am studying for this exam. TC just approved our MCMs and I am just waiting to write the test and take the interview. I have been focusing on the following CARs: 201, 202, 507, 511, 513, 573, 591, 593, 605, and 706 (including all their standards). Again, you don't need to memorize every single CAR, but it wouldn't hurt to know as much as you possibly can.
(4) The applicant for the "Person Responsible for Maintenance Control System" position within an Air Operator shall demonstrate, during an interview conducted by Transport Canada regional personnel, he/she is knowledgeable in respect of the air operator's approved policies and on the topics listed below:
(a) Duties and responsibilities of the appointed position;
(b) Duties of persons who have been assigned functional responsibilities;
(c) Responsibilities of the Operator in relation to those of the AMO;
(d) Identification of acceptable reference data for maintenance schedules;
(e) Use of fleet sampling techniques;
(f) Control of repetitive inspections;
(g) Reliability programs;
(h) Types and methods of control of mandatory maintenance tasks;
(i) Defect control;
(j) Technical dispatch requirements;
(k) Maintenance release requirements;
(l) Control of elementary work and servicing;
(m) Responsibility for record keeping; and
(n) The function of quality assurance.
(5) The interview is designed to further establish the applicant's knowledge and competence. The applicant will be informed of any mistakes, and the correct answers will be discussed. Questions and responses will be recorded. Should the interview be unsuccessful, the applicant will be informed immediately and the decision will be confirmed by a written notification to the applicant and the Air Operator within 10 days.
There is also a written exam requirement based on the CARs (it's an open book exam, but you really do need to know where to find things, as the CARs are 1000+ pages long!).
Your responsibilities as PRM will be laid out in your company's Maintenance Control Manual (MCM). This manual basically explains how your company runs things from the maintenance side (not to be confused with the Operations Manual). As the PRM, you must know the MCM like the back of your hand. Be familiar with your maintenance schedules, your evaluation system, how to arrange for maintenance, how to properly track and control any maintenance tasks, etc. This requires a good knowledge of the required maintenance work for your a/c, which can be found in the CARs.
Currently, I am studying for this exam. TC just approved our MCMs and I am just waiting to write the test and take the interview. I have been focusing on the following CARs: 201, 202, 507, 511, 513, 573, 591, 593, 605, and 706 (including all their standards). Again, you don't need to memorize every single CAR, but it wouldn't hurt to know as much as you possibly can.
"Never travel faster than your guardian angel can fly." - Mother Theresa
For the Exam the hardest is to not run out of time. That is why I failed it the first time. The second time I used an electronic version of the CARs and it went a lot faster.
Also I believe there is (or at least there was) only one version of the exam, so the second time it looks a lot more familiar.
To keep track of the maintenance events is very easy with a software whatever it is as long as it flags the upcoming inspections, a lot easier than a blackboard....
Also I believe there is (or at least there was) only one version of the exam, so the second time it looks a lot more familiar.
To keep track of the maintenance events is very easy with a software whatever it is as long as it flags the upcoming inspections, a lot easier than a blackboard....
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
quote:
" Questions and responses will be recorded. "
What they fail to inform you of is the questions and responses are then sealed in an envelope with your name on it and marked....
"Not assesible under freedom of information due to sensitive material contained herein "...
The slimey bastards in M&M and the Regional Director Civil Aviation that run this region can and will refuse to discuss their reasons for any failure and they fall back on this policy... I should know because I went through their Kangaroo court. And I have a copy of their "PROTECTED" document that covers their asses when they decide to cull someone.
I can show compelling evidence that I was not the only one in this region that was failed and using that document they refuse flat out to give a reason..
For these moral degenerates the only reason they need is to just decide you are not going to get approved.
Cat
" Questions and responses will be recorded. "
What they fail to inform you of is the questions and responses are then sealed in an envelope with your name on it and marked....
"Not assesible under freedom of information due to sensitive material contained herein "...
The slimey bastards in M&M and the Regional Director Civil Aviation that run this region can and will refuse to discuss their reasons for any failure and they fall back on this policy... I should know because I went through their Kangaroo court. And I have a copy of their "PROTECTED" document that covers their asses when they decide to cull someone.
I can show compelling evidence that I was not the only one in this region that was failed and using that document they refuse flat out to give a reason..
For these moral degenerates the only reason they need is to just decide you are not going to get approved.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Shiny Side Up
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- Location: Group W bench
When I did mine they let me use the CARS online so its not too difficult if you know how to use the search function. Likewise with the interview, they provide you with the things they're going to go through so you can make some notes as to what to answer. Little bit of a time consuming process but not terribly difficult.C-HRIS wrote:
There is also a written exam requirement based on the CARs (it's an open book exam, but you really do need to know where to find things, as the CARs are 1000+ pages long!).
We can't stop here! This is BAT country!
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Once again like everything with TC you pass if they want you to.
When I was going though my PRM approval process I first had an AME with M2 M3 and structures licenses apply he failed..then my Class one Instructor studied for two weeks and went in to write the exam, the computer did not have the CARS CD in it and he couldn't search the CAR's so he wrote the exam anyhow and failed by 2%...TC would not budge on the 30 day rewrite rule so goodbye Class one he had to find another job as he had already spent two months on salary helping get the OC and School put in place....
...so I finally went to the DGCA with the problems I was having getting stonewalled for month after month, he arranged with the Pacific Region Director C.A. for a meeting and interview with myself, my lawyer and the top four managers of TC Civil Aviation Pacific Region..
I was deemed not to be acceptable for the position of PRM and about six months and another instructor I finally ran out of money and folded the company..In total I had been stonewalled for over two years on a simple FTU OC application.
So if after over fifty years in aviation as a mechanic / pilot and having previously been PRM before in two of my own companies I was deemed as not suitable what does that say about how these vermin make their decisions?
For all you young keeners something like this probably will not happen because TC knows that through fear of TC you will be properly submissive and have the right attitude..
Bottom line is a corrupt TC official of which we have far to many is just marginally above a child molester as far as I am concerned, in otherwords, human garbage.
Cat
When I was going though my PRM approval process I first had an AME with M2 M3 and structures licenses apply he failed..then my Class one Instructor studied for two weeks and went in to write the exam, the computer did not have the CARS CD in it and he couldn't search the CAR's so he wrote the exam anyhow and failed by 2%...TC would not budge on the 30 day rewrite rule so goodbye Class one he had to find another job as he had already spent two months on salary helping get the OC and School put in place....
...so I finally went to the DGCA with the problems I was having getting stonewalled for month after month, he arranged with the Pacific Region Director C.A. for a meeting and interview with myself, my lawyer and the top four managers of TC Civil Aviation Pacific Region..
I was deemed not to be acceptable for the position of PRM and about six months and another instructor I finally ran out of money and folded the company..In total I had been stonewalled for over two years on a simple FTU OC application.
So if after over fifty years in aviation as a mechanic / pilot and having previously been PRM before in two of my own companies I was deemed as not suitable what does that say about how these vermin make their decisions?
For all you young keeners something like this probably will not happen because TC knows that through fear of TC you will be properly submissive and have the right attitude..
Bottom line is a corrupt TC official of which we have far to many is just marginally above a child molester as far as I am concerned, in otherwords, human garbage.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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aero-singidunum
- Rank 4
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:03 am
When I did mine, they did ask CARs, but 75% of interview was regarding our MPM and MCM. Well i did wrote both manuals, so i did not have problems at that time.
Well now, being out of loof for last few years, might be a problem.
On other hand, i do not want to deal with commercial operators....
And life is good
Well now, being out of loof for last few years, might be a problem.
On other hand, i do not want to deal with commercial operators....
And life is good
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Louis:
That is a very good question and I will give you the answer.
You can tape record and or video your meetings with TC, however in the final analysis if they wish to cull you for whatever reason your recordings are of no real value because you only have TC to appeal to for a reversal of a decision or to recover any losses you may have suffered.
Sort of like appealing to the fox for killing your chickens.
In my case after untold thousands of dollars being spent on lawyers and ten times that amount wasted by TC fighting me the file was turned over to the top office Transport Canada outside of Civil Aviation.
The Government paid for investigation took five months, the findings of the investigation was clear and precise, every one of my allegations were found to be true, including the fact that one of their top people not only was a liar but did so on several occasions including in the investigation.
The findings were one sentance.
Mr . was denied due Process.
That was over two years ago, to this day I have received zero money to compensate for my losses and have again twice been denied due process by the same people who were found guilty in the first place.
So it is quite simple for me, if I am ever approached by any TC official I know that I am at far greater risk than if it were a common street crimminal that was approaching me. Remember, I am and old Africa hand and very street smart in dealing with corrupt officials and am not in the least intimidated by these scum, our home grown corrupt officials hide behind the power of their office, whereas in Africa they carry guns to back up their power.
There is not one of these cowardly pricks in TC that have the balls to come on my property or ramp check me.... and you can bet they know where to find me.
Cat
That is a very good question and I will give you the answer.
You can tape record and or video your meetings with TC, however in the final analysis if they wish to cull you for whatever reason your recordings are of no real value because you only have TC to appeal to for a reversal of a decision or to recover any losses you may have suffered.
Sort of like appealing to the fox for killing your chickens.
In my case after untold thousands of dollars being spent on lawyers and ten times that amount wasted by TC fighting me the file was turned over to the top office Transport Canada outside of Civil Aviation.
The Government paid for investigation took five months, the findings of the investigation was clear and precise, every one of my allegations were found to be true, including the fact that one of their top people not only was a liar but did so on several occasions including in the investigation.
The findings were one sentance.
Mr . was denied due Process.
That was over two years ago, to this day I have received zero money to compensate for my losses and have again twice been denied due process by the same people who were found guilty in the first place.
So it is quite simple for me, if I am ever approached by any TC official I know that I am at far greater risk than if it were a common street crimminal that was approaching me. Remember, I am and old Africa hand and very street smart in dealing with corrupt officials and am not in the least intimidated by these scum, our home grown corrupt officials hide behind the power of their office, whereas in Africa they carry guns to back up their power.
There is not one of these cowardly pricks in TC that have the balls to come on my property or ramp check me.... and you can bet they know where to find me.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Corporate Pilot
- Rank 3
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:41 pm
- Location: Canada
This is completely inaccurate.Shiny Side Up wrote:As a PRM your list of responsibilities lies in what your Director of Maintenance lays out for you.
Not to put too fine a point on it but the "PRM" is the "PERSON RESPONSIBLE for MAINTENANCE".
The DOM (unless he is also PRM) is NOT the person RESPONSIBLE.
It is up to the PRM to ensure that the aircraft are maintained on schedule or as necessary BY the DOM/AMO (etc.)
If an aircraft is flying beyond an inspection point or with open snags, it is the PRM who is nailed, not the DOM.
The job of a PRM is not difficult or complicated, so long as they understand the CARs and their own responsibilities.
But way too often I have seen people in this position who have no idea what they are supposed to do.
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Corporate Pilot
- Rank 3
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:41 pm
- Location: Canada
.! You know this is not true. I have long been sympathetic to your cause and previously suggested to you (perhaps in private correspondence) that the Tribunal is the place you should take this.Cat Driver wrote:you only have TC to appeal to for a reversal of a decision
I know several of the Tribunal members and actually have faith that you could receive a favourable outcome.
Transportation Appeal Tribunal of Canada
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Coroporate pilot.
Quote from you:
" .! You know this is not true. I have long been sympathetic to your cause and previously suggested to you (perhaps in private correspondence) that the Tribunal is the place you should take this.
I know several of the Tribunal members and actually have faith that you could receive a favourable outcome.
Transportation Appeal Tribunal of Canada "
You are incorrect, I tried on two ocassions to receive help from the tribunal and in both instances was turned down, they told me twice that the conduct of the TC officials in the handling of my case was beyond their scope of dealing with..I do not have a paper copy of their response outlining their reasons for not taking my complaint as they did not provide me with one.
However in a nut shell they told me verbally on the phone that my allegations were to do with abuse of power and dishonesty by several Govermnment employees and it was beyond their mandate to deal with...the only arm of Government that I was sucessful in getting help from outside of Civil Aviation was through Ottawa when I filed an haressement complaint against the TC M&M Inspector who was the root cause of the fiasco my FTU OC application turned into.
But if I was given the wrong information from the Tribunal and you can get them involved here is where we start.
After having done everything that I could afford to do I am now left with no financial means to persue this any further at this time, however I would like to lay a complaint of a lack moral integrity against the Director General Civil Aviation for his condoning of dishonesty on the part of named individuals in the investigation that was done by a so called outside party.
To back up my allegation against the DGCA, I can present proof from his own desk in Tower C on his stationery with his signature on it and ongoing proof that even after he was aware that my allegations were in fact true his only response to repeated letters from me has been silence...
If you can get the Tribunal to sit and hear my complaint and allow me to present compelling evidence to back up my complaint, a lot of which is from TC's own records we might have a chance of cleaning out the cesspool that is Tower C and briniging some sembalance of integrity to the management of Transport Canada Civil Aviation.
But I don't have much faith that that will ever happen even after hearing Paul Martin stating that his greatest commitment to the people of Canada is guaranteeing moral integrity in Government..
Every time I see him on TV I just superimpose Alfonso Gagalani's (sp?) face over Martins and that just about sums up moral integrity as understood by this Government.
Anyhow I sure do appreciate your suggestion and am looking foward to what your friends in the Tribunal will really do.
If they are interested I have only one request, before I testify I want my choice of witness present to protect my rights, and that will be a well known investigative news reporter so every word can be made public.
Hell, I see no reason not to grant that, unless we have become the Zimbawbe of North America.
. .
Quote from you:
" .! You know this is not true. I have long been sympathetic to your cause and previously suggested to you (perhaps in private correspondence) that the Tribunal is the place you should take this.
I know several of the Tribunal members and actually have faith that you could receive a favourable outcome.
Transportation Appeal Tribunal of Canada "
You are incorrect, I tried on two ocassions to receive help from the tribunal and in both instances was turned down, they told me twice that the conduct of the TC officials in the handling of my case was beyond their scope of dealing with..I do not have a paper copy of their response outlining their reasons for not taking my complaint as they did not provide me with one.
However in a nut shell they told me verbally on the phone that my allegations were to do with abuse of power and dishonesty by several Govermnment employees and it was beyond their mandate to deal with...the only arm of Government that I was sucessful in getting help from outside of Civil Aviation was through Ottawa when I filed an haressement complaint against the TC M&M Inspector who was the root cause of the fiasco my FTU OC application turned into.
But if I was given the wrong information from the Tribunal and you can get them involved here is where we start.
After having done everything that I could afford to do I am now left with no financial means to persue this any further at this time, however I would like to lay a complaint of a lack moral integrity against the Director General Civil Aviation for his condoning of dishonesty on the part of named individuals in the investigation that was done by a so called outside party.
To back up my allegation against the DGCA, I can present proof from his own desk in Tower C on his stationery with his signature on it and ongoing proof that even after he was aware that my allegations were in fact true his only response to repeated letters from me has been silence...
If you can get the Tribunal to sit and hear my complaint and allow me to present compelling evidence to back up my complaint, a lot of which is from TC's own records we might have a chance of cleaning out the cesspool that is Tower C and briniging some sembalance of integrity to the management of Transport Canada Civil Aviation.
But I don't have much faith that that will ever happen even after hearing Paul Martin stating that his greatest commitment to the people of Canada is guaranteeing moral integrity in Government..
Every time I see him on TV I just superimpose Alfonso Gagalani's (sp?) face over Martins and that just about sums up moral integrity as understood by this Government.
Anyhow I sure do appreciate your suggestion and am looking foward to what your friends in the Tribunal will really do.
If they are interested I have only one request, before I testify I want my choice of witness present to protect my rights, and that will be a well known investigative news reporter so every word can be made public.
Hell, I see no reason not to grant that, unless we have become the Zimbawbe of North America.
. .
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Corporate Pilot
- Rank 3
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:41 pm
- Location: Canada
We're dealing with multiple issues here; in your message above you said "you only have TC to appeal to for a reversal of a decision". The Tribunal deals with appeals of TC decisions! I believe you can challenge TC's denial of a PRM standing.Cat Driver wrote:I tried on two ocassions to receive help from the tribunal and in both instances was turned down, they told me twice that the conduct of the TC officials in the handling of my case was beyond their scope of dealing with..
But it is true that the Tribunal does not deal with matters of "integrity, abuse of power, dishonesty", etc. That would require a lawsuit or a public inquiry.
I'll contact you privately or take this discussion to the underground.
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Quote :
" We're dealing with multiple issues here; in your message above you said "you only have TC to appeal to for a reversal of a decision". The Tribunal deals with appeals of TC decisions! I believe you can challenge TC's denial of a PRM standing. "
Coroporate pilot, I asked the Tribunal to intervene regarding TC denial of approving me for PRM, they said they could not do so, in any event it is a moot point at this place in time because the Regional Director General of Transport Canada personally contacted me when I filed the haressement complaint in Ottawa, he came to my home with what he called an independant investigator, in front of witnesses I agreed to a full investigation of the matter, it took five months and they found that "YES" I had bneen screwed by the Regional Director TCCA, they even admit it had to have been a personal vendetta by that prick and even though he ( the RDCA ) lied like a bastard in the investigation and all my allegations were held to be true...I still have nothing, nada, sweet fu.k all from TC as compensation for the hell they put me through.
I understand that you wish to help and appreciate it. However the issue goes far, far beyond my losing a business and my money, it goes to the very core of the relationship between TC and us the industry the very people they are supposed to protect.
How in f.ck can we have any faith in a body who's top management are worse than common crimminals...
What is needed is a real open public exposure of the moral degenerates in TC Civil Aviation who are allowed to flaunt the law in their own best intrests..
Maybe after I get some more time to regenerate my batteries I may once again try and get this in the public arena...
...but it is futile , just look at the corruption in Ottawa where hundreds of millions are being stolen and the public just sleep walks.
What we need is a f.ckin revolution and you can bet I would volunteer to clean all these ass.oles out of office.
Anyhow thanks and of course you can contact me and I would be happy to talk to you.
My biggest problem right now is the airplane in Holland, I just received a e-mail saying the part is ready and will be installed Monday, then when the paperwork is finished they will send for me to go back...anyhow time is running out as our next airshow is on May 21 / 22.
Cat
" We're dealing with multiple issues here; in your message above you said "you only have TC to appeal to for a reversal of a decision". The Tribunal deals with appeals of TC decisions! I believe you can challenge TC's denial of a PRM standing. "
Coroporate pilot, I asked the Tribunal to intervene regarding TC denial of approving me for PRM, they said they could not do so, in any event it is a moot point at this place in time because the Regional Director General of Transport Canada personally contacted me when I filed the haressement complaint in Ottawa, he came to my home with what he called an independant investigator, in front of witnesses I agreed to a full investigation of the matter, it took five months and they found that "YES" I had bneen screwed by the Regional Director TCCA, they even admit it had to have been a personal vendetta by that prick and even though he ( the RDCA ) lied like a bastard in the investigation and all my allegations were held to be true...I still have nothing, nada, sweet fu.k all from TC as compensation for the hell they put me through.
I understand that you wish to help and appreciate it. However the issue goes far, far beyond my losing a business and my money, it goes to the very core of the relationship between TC and us the industry the very people they are supposed to protect.
How in f.ck can we have any faith in a body who's top management are worse than common crimminals...
What is needed is a real open public exposure of the moral degenerates in TC Civil Aviation who are allowed to flaunt the law in their own best intrests..
Maybe after I get some more time to regenerate my batteries I may once again try and get this in the public arena...
...but it is futile , just look at the corruption in Ottawa where hundreds of millions are being stolen and the public just sleep walks.
What we need is a f.ckin revolution and you can bet I would volunteer to clean all these ass.oles out of office.
Anyhow thanks and of course you can contact me and I would be happy to talk to you.
My biggest problem right now is the airplane in Holland, I just received a e-mail saying the part is ready and will be installed Monday, then when the paperwork is finished they will send for me to go back...anyhow time is running out as our next airshow is on May 21 / 22.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
