"Just building up ice..."

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:07 pm

Overheard from a young pilot flying a medium cabin class piston twin today.
"....stayed in the ice to see how it would handle......." "....yes I had passengers....but I knew it would melt off on descent....." It was +7C on the ground. "......this was my first time in IMC......" "...the auto-pilot will hold a heading.....but you have to watch your altitude...."
And, you wonder why some of us "old guys" just shake our heads?
It's THAT time of year again........time to PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES!!!
This is the kind of indifferent attitude that WIIL kill you.

cdnpilot77 · Post by **cdnpilot77** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:13 pm

Wow!!! I wonder if he informed his passengers of his experiment and what they would have thought of that??

photofly · Post by **photofly** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:56 pm

Never mind the ice. How do you get to fly a medium class cabin twin, with passengers, and never have been in IMC before?

Rudy · Post by **Rudy** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:14 pm

Never mind the ice. It's was only 7 degrees in Northern Ontario today?

Edit: I checked the forecast for Pickle and they're calling for snow tomorrow.

Caracrane · Post by **Caracrane** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:17 pm

seen that before, when he pleases the big boss on some other ride for fishin/huntin let's say and then boss says the ops. man. to send him to FS for Capt.seat.

Caracrane · Post by **Caracrane** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:44 pm

... and had never flown for our company...

Gino Under · Post by **Gino Under** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:30 am

Ahhh...

They're cute when they're young.

Beechball · Post by **Beechball** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:03 am

I'll second the "Never Been In IMC"

WTF?????

whipline · Post by **whipline** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:21 am

Hopefully they took off over weight with some "granny gas" to. Just in case. You can never be to safe

pika · Post by **pika** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:50 am

Overheard from a young pilot flying a medium cabin class piston twin today.
"....stayed in the ice to see how it would handle......." "....yes I had passengers....but I knew it would melt off on descent....." It was +7C on the ground. "......this was my first time in IMC......" "...the auto-pilot will hold a heading.....but you have to watch your altitude...."
And, you wonder why some of us "old guys" just shake our heads?
It's THAT time of year again........time to PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES!!!
This is the kind of indifferent attitude that WIIL kill you.

Just out of curiosity... Did you discretely pull the youngster aside and correct the error of his ways with the voice of reason and experience or just vent on this forum?

Beefitarian · Post by **Beefitarian** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:21 am

pika I agree but... what do you tell someone like that?

2R · Post by 2R » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:41 am

How much extra fuel did he burn with all that extra weight and drag of the ice ?
Is he paying the extra costs or does is he expecting his employer to pay for his experiments ?
I wonder what his customers will think when he starts to experiment flying in turbulance.The Roman term Vomitarium comes to mind

Chuck Ellsworth · Post by **Chuck Ellsworth** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:48 am

I believe the issue Doc is addressing here is how did any pilot get turned lose with paying passengers in that kind of airplane and said pilot was not qualified to fly the airplane with passengers on board.

Siddley Hawker · Post by **Siddley Hawker** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:55 am

"...the auto-pilot will hold a heading.....but you have to watch your altitude...."

That mind set didn't work too well at Roselawn or Buffalo.

J31 · Post by **J31** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:00 am

pika wrote:
Overheard from a young pilot flying a medium cabin class piston twin today.
"....stayed in the ice to see how it would handle......." "....yes I had passengers....but I knew it would melt off on descent....." It was +7C on the ground. "......this was my first time in IMC......" "...the auto-pilot will hold a heading.....but you have to watch your altitude...."
And, you wonder why some of us "old guys" just shake our heads?
It's THAT time of year again........time to PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES!!!
This is the kind of indifferent attitude that WIIL kill you.
Just out of curiosity... Did you discretely pull the youngster aside and correct the error of his ways with the voice of reason and experience or just vent on this forum?

I agree. A grizzled

old veteran like "Doc" would make an impression. We have all had one of life's lessons installed in us by a well placed comment by a wiser one.

pika · Post by **pika** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:08 am

pika I agree but... what do you tell someone like that?

Beef,

I'll let Doc weigh in before I add my thoughts.

I believe the issue Doc is addressing here is how did any pilot get turned lose with paying passengers in that kind of airplane and said pilot was not qualified to fly the airplane with passengers on board.

Cat,

I think that is Photofly's issue but let's wait and see what Doc's issue was.

How much extra fuel did he burn with all that extra weight and drag of the ice ?

2R,

Probably not much as it's a piston twin.

photofly · Post by **photofly** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:21 pm

I think I support the idea of an "ice training flight" - to the extent of starting a climb into icing and then descending out of it, to get an idea of what it looks like and how fast it forms (noting this is situation specific, of course). But not to the extent of a noticeable change in handling, nor with passengers on board, and not with passengers aboard.

Beefitarian · Post by **Beefitarian** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:50 pm

Would that be a training flight with someone who has experience in icing conditions or, "....stayed in the ice to see how it would handle......."?

photofly · Post by **photofly** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:38 pm

Beefitarian wrote:Would that be a training flight with someone who has experience in icing conditions or, "....stayed in the ice to see how it would handle......."?

Lol. Ideally with someone who can tell you that in their 25 years of flying they've been caught out in ice a few times and they didn't die, but they also didn't hang around there long enough to need the skills they learned in Be A Test Pilot 101.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:25 pm

pika wrote:
Overheard from a young pilot flying a medium cabin class piston twin today.
"....stayed in the ice to see how it would handle......." "....yes I had passengers....but I knew it would melt off on descent....." It was +7C on the ground. "......this was my first time in IMC......" "...the auto-pilot will hold a heading.....but you have to watch your altitude...."
And, you wonder why some of us "old guys" just shake our heads?
It's THAT time of year again........time to PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES!!!
This is the kind of indifferent attitude that WIIL kill you.
Just out of curiosity... Did you discretely pull the youngster aside and correct the error of his ways with the voice of reason and experience or just vent on this forum?

pika, we did have a "fire side" chat. I think the "light" came on, but you never really know. Names and companies have been withheld and the post is meant not to point fingers (which we can't, not knowing who and where this occurred) but as a lesson in what not to do, and how not to conduct oneself. I'm thinking that this kind of thing can't really be a one off? It worries me that this kind of thinking is still going on. eg., another post regarding a Caravan testing the waters, so to speak, to see that the power is there, ...."for when she gets loaded up with ice....."

Flying Nutcracker · Post by **Flying Nutcracker** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:02 am

Isn't this what the right seat is for?

Redneck_pilot86 · Post by **Redneck_pilot86** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:06 pm

We don't all start in the right seat.

Beefitarian · Post by **Beefitarian** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:44 pm

Many operators probably would rather not pay for someone to be in the left seat never mind the right.

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:00 pm

Isn't this what the right seat is for?

No. the right seat is not for "training"

It is what our brains are for. Common sense, maturity, and the ability to be trusted with other peoples lives and property.

Flying Nutcracker · Post by **Flying Nutcracker** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:55 pm

It's funny that some of the best "lessons" I have had have been in the right seat. Both for how to do things and also how NOT to do things! With 8000+ hours I am in the right seat again and it's funny that I am still learning as much as when I first started out the first time in the right seat...

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