Dropping Out of Confederation College Flight Program

[wanderer_]

Hi everyone !

This is my first time posting here.

I am a student in the Confederation College Flight Program Year 1.
I am finding it confusing and hard.
I would say I am of average intelligence and have to struggle with certain things.
I generally like to learn things on my own and at my own pace.
I find the ground school courses and math course difficult.
I feel that they are rushing through the material.
Even though, this is the beginning of the semester, I am overwhelmed.
I am a hard worker but I think that's not enough.
The other problem is that I don't have any prior flight training experience.

I talked to my friend about this. He is in second year of the same program.
He said that many people fail in the first year.
Even if I work hard, that still might not be enough.
He suggested I drop out now, take math and ground school privately and also some flight training; and then apply again for next year.
The reasoning is that if I drop out now, I can apply again next year to this college or sault college. If I wait until later to drop out or fail, I will not be able to get in for next year to this college or even sault college. The other reason I would rather drop out now is that I can get most of my tuition fee refunded if I drop out by this Friday Sep. 16.

So what do you guys think ?
I am not being a quitter.
Those are just facts and this is the smarter and more logical choice.

If other people are having difficulty from the start as well, I would say it's a good idea to drop out now rather than fail later and be out of options. Another friend of mine failed from this program and is now working to save money for private flight training.

[cdnpilot77]

Its a personal decision that only you can make, but remember this is college now, not high school. You are expected to get the basics from your teacher and then read and study on your own, not just go to class and put the books away until the next class. They are expecting that as an adult you will prioritize your life around your studies. Is it being a quitter if you run away? well I think so but I am not there, however, I am a graduate of a college aviation program. The harder thing to do would be studying hard to understand the materials, not worry too much about partying...at least until you get your feet on the ground and running... and be rewarded with an acceptable grade. Remember that the course and classes will be the exact same next year, they will not get more simple. The easy thing to do would be quit. There is a huge learning curve going into college and entering aviation especially, but you either step up or lay down, its your choice only to make. Thats my $0.02

[bverwegen]

Is there tutoring help available at the school? In fact here at the Sault, myself and one of my roomates are peer tutors and we will be trying to help kids just like you understand the material a little bit better. Go to student services and see what kind of help you can get.

Also, not sure about confed but I'm guessing the workload is quite heavy...buy a day-planner and try to manage your time better. You will find that the work on its own is not too hard, but it is the work load that really forces people to crumble. If you party a little bit less like cdnpilot077 said you could really turn things around quickly.

[trainer_200]

there is tutoring available for sure, and it's totally free of charge. i highly recommend every student sign up for it

[767]

At the end of the day, everyone that has a license is good to go. Your job is to go from A to B, and deal with emergencies when they arise. If your not enjoying what you do, then your wasting your time. I am not discouraging people from attending the sault/seneca/confed programs, but you shouldnt be there if you dont like it. If you love it, stay there. Go to a regular flight school. Good luck

[Dagwood]

You have to sit down and think hard if you really want to get in aviation.
If you find the first 2 weeks hard... Welcome to aviation. You can look forward to studying for a flight test, moving 3 provinces over for your first job... Studying for your first PPC... Saying no when you need to... ect.ect. There will always be challenges. The ones who "make it" in this industry are the ones who never quit.

Also, I know a few people who probably wouldn't have their licenses if it wasn't for a college program that they attended. Although the flight training is very structured, sometimes that's what it takes for a person to buckle down and git-er-done. I can think of many well-meaning students at local FTUs who never got around to finishing their training because they didn't have the motivation, money, time, or whatever they were lacking. One of the nice things about a college, is for the right person, it is an all-in-one package.

+1 to what cdnpilot77 said. Your future is up to you.

[SuperchargedRS]

Hi everyone !

This is my first time posting here.

I am a student in the Confederation College Flight Program Year 1.
I am finding it confusing and hard.
I would say I am of average intelligence and have to struggle with certain things.
I generally like to learn things on my own and at my own pace.
I find the ground school courses and math course difficult.
I feel that they are rushing through the material.
Even though, this is the beginning of the semester, I am overwhelmed.
I am a hard worker but I think that's not enough.
The other problem is that I don't have any prior flight training experience.

I talked to my friend about this. He is in second year of the same program.
He said that many people fail in the first year.
Even if I work hard, that still might not be enough.
He suggested I drop out now, take math and ground school privately and also some flight training; and then apply again for next year.
The reasoning is that if I drop out now, I can apply again next year to this college or sault college. If I wait until later to drop out or fail, I will not be able to get in for next year to this college or even sault college. The other reason I would rather drop out now is that I can get most of my tuition fee refunded if I drop out by this Friday Sep. 16.

So what do you guys think ?
I am not being a quitter.
Those are just facts and this is the smarter and more logical choice.

If other people are having difficulty from the start as well, I would say it's a good idea to drop out now rather than fail later and be out of options. Another friend of mine failed from this program and is now working to save money for private flight training.

Well the school uses the first part of the year to blow 60% of the students out every year. If you want to go through this program this is how I would go about it.

1) get tutoring from a 2nd year student, you NEED to be prepared for the "mystery" tests at the end.

They will give you two test over two days at some community center, you will never get to see the test after they grade it, you will just get a little slip of paper with your score. IMHO you will not be properly prepared for this test, this test will make or break you, this is a pass or fail the entire semester test (hence why 60% are blown out each and every year). YOU NEED to be tutored for that test by someone who took it.

2) How's you flying??? How are you doing in systems (engine etc.) and Meteorology, those are the big factors you need to be good at (to be a good pilot regardless of confed).

3) YOUR PROGRAM HEAD, probably Shawna Greaves, has been known to offer a "after class" study group, TAKE THAT and keep in VERY GOOD CONTACT with your program head, let her know your worries, how you are doing, what you should do, etc. I can recall one student that was HORRIBLE (in both flying and class) but chatted Shawna up all the time and made it through the 1st semester culling.

4) I wouldn't worry about failing out, I can recall a few people that failed out and got in the next year, that college wants your money and I doubt they will turn you away for a second round.

5) Dont bother with flight training or taking other classes prior to confed, they managed to use that BIG TEST, to fail out people who hold college degrees and also people with flight hours, just keep close to the program head, get tutoring for that final test and cross your fingers.


6) Dont let confed decided your aptitude for aviation for you, if you are a good stick and rudder this will amount to very little in confed (as well as other college programs), if you dont make it past the 1st semester, just go find a flight school carry on.

If you make it past the culling, it will be all downhill, they just need to cut down the class while getting the 1st semester revenue every year, old news.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

6) Dont let confed decided your aptitude for aviation for you, if you are a good stick and rudder this will amount to very little in confed (as well as other college programs),

So the next time a pilot applies for a job flying for us and tells me they are a graduate of one of these college programs I have part of my decision made for me to not hire them because they may have a degree but may not be able to fly an airplane.

But they may qualify for a job that does not involve flying.

[iflyforpie]

But they may qualify for a job that does not involve flying.

Aren't these programs designed to make the world's most highly trained toilet scrubbers?

"Look's like it's time to buzz the tower! Great balls of fire!"

[Typhoon]

Hi everyone !

This is my first time posting here.

I am a student in the Confederation College Flight Program Year 1.
I am finding it confusing and hard.
I would say I am of average intelligence and have to struggle with certain things.
I generally like to learn things on my own and at my own pace.
I find the ground school courses and math course difficult.
I feel that they are rushing through the material.
Even though, this is the beginning of the semester, I am overwhelmed.
I am a hard worker but I think that's not enough.
The other problem is that I don't have any prior flight training experience.

I talked to my friend about this. He is in second year of the same program.
He said that many people fail in the first year.
Even if I work hard, that still might not be enough.
He suggested I drop out now, take math and ground school privately and also some flight training; and then apply again for next year.
The reasoning is that if I drop out now, I can apply again next year to this college or sault college. If I wait until later to drop out or fail, I will not be able to get in for next year to this college or even sault college. The other reason I would rather drop out now is that I can get most of my tuition fee refunded if I drop out by this Friday Sep. 16.

So what do you guys think ?
I am not being a quitter.
Those are just facts and this is the smarter and more logical choice.

If other people are having difficulty from the start as well, I would say it's a good idea to drop out now rather than fail later and be out of options. Another friend of mine failed from this program and is now working to save money for private flight training.

Well the school uses the first part of the year to blow 60% of the students out every year. If you want to go through this program this is how I would go about it.

1) get tutoring from a 2nd year student, you NEED to be prepared for the "mystery" tests at the end.

They will give you two test over two days at some community center, you will never get to see the test after they grade it, you will just get a little slip of paper with your score. IMHO you will not be properly prepared for this test, this test will make or break you, this is a pass or fail the entire semester test (hence why 60% are blown out each and every year). YOU NEED to be tutored for that test by someone who took it.

2) How's you flying??? How are you doing in systems (engine etc.) and Meteorology, those are the big factors you need to be good at (to be a good pilot regardless of confed).

3) YOUR PROGRAM HEAD, probably Shawna Greaves, has been known to offer a "after class" study group, TAKE THAT and keep in VERY GOOD CONTACT with your program head, let her know your worries, how you are doing, what you should do, etc. I can recall one student that was HORRIBLE (in both flying and class) but chatted Shawna up all the time and made it through the 1st semester culling.

4) I wouldn't worry about failing out, I can recall a few people that failed out and got in the next year, that college wants your money and I doubt they will turn you away for a second round.

5) Dont bother with flight training or taking other classes prior to confed, they managed to use that BIG TEST, to fail out people who hold college degrees and also people with flight hours, just keep close to the program head, get tutoring for that final test and cross your fingers.


6) Dont let confed decided your aptitude for aviation for you, if you are a good stick and rudder this will amount to very little in confed (as well as other college programs), if you dont make it past the 1st semester, just go find a flight school carry on.

If you make it past the culling, it will be all downhill, they just need to cut down the class while getting the 1st semester revenue every year, old news.

SuperchargedRS, I mean this in the politest way possible, but do you have ANY idea what you are talking about? Did you attend Confed, because if you did, you certainly have missed a lot, and if you didn't, why are you saying things that are completely untrue?

Confed is a great place and the training the one receives there (as well as any other college) is very thorough.

The OP is asking for advise on what to do, and quite frankly your post was so negative I wouldn't be surprised if he was to actually drop out now.

The exams in first semester aren't designed to kick 60% of the people out. Where did you get your information from? It's essentially the PPL exam, but written by the college. It's not a "mystery" test, everybody is clearly informed as to what to expect for it. If you can't pass it then tough luck. They provided you with all the information you needed to know in class so it's ultimately your fault. The exam isn't designed to kick people out. It separates the people that are there to learn and the people that are there to party. Last year, I don't even think 25% of the class failed out. You don't even need someone to tutor you who has previously taken the exam to pass. If you're dedicated enough and put in the effort you'll easily pull off the 70% required. For those that do fail out, very few end up returning the next year. From my understanding, you need a very good reason to be allowed back in.

It would be nice if you actually told him the truth about it from the get go instead of filling his head with common misconceptions.

[bcherri]

I'd recommend a book called "So You Want To be a Pilot EH?" by James Ball.

Awesome insight to pilot training. It covers everything from your intro flight to applying to mainline carriers such as WestJet or Air Canada. Good book to read to decide if you really want to go into aviation.

[the_cr]

Well the school uses the first part of the year to blow 60% of the students out every year. If you want to go through this program this is how I would go about it.

...

If you make it past the culling, it will be all downhill, they just need to cut down the class while getting the 1st semester revenue every year, old news.

If you make the grade you stay in the program, nothing sinister or diabolical about it. Wouldn't be an effective business otherwise.

That being said, Wanderer, probably best to either get help now, or try again another time. Having done but not completed a year of university, i wish i had dropped out sooner to have the money back instead of losing the money and not getting anything out of it. I found getting a little work experience has set me up better going into confed. Don't be worried or embarrassed asking to study with people in the class. Last weekend I know a group of guys got together in the library to study as a group and this can be very helpful for someone who can't necessarily find the answer on their own.

Finding a tutor within the program isn't too difficult either. Even the instructors so far seem very happy to try and help bring everything up to speed for you.

If you choose to leave this year, consider a course on how to study. This is a whole different ball game from high school. You are accountable to yourself, which can be an issue for a lot of people.

I don't know that I would get a PPL and then return to confed. Get some work experience, make a little money, take a course somewhere to better your skills and then return, or try and build the hours on your own.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

if you are a good stick and rudder this will amount to very little in confed (as well as other college programs)

From an employers standpoint the above if true will be a great hurdle for one of these graduates to jump before I would hire one to fly an aircraft of any type.

[SuperchargedRS]

So the next time a pilot applies for a job flying for us and tells me they are a graduate of one of these college programs I have part of my decision made for me to not hire them because they may have a degree but may not be able to fly an airplane.

. I was saying no matter what happens with confed dont give up flying if you enjoy it (and have at least some stick and rudder skills)

SuperchargedRS, I mean this in the politest way possible, but do you have ANY idea what you are talking about?

yes

The OP is asking for advise on what to do, and quite frankly your post was so negative I wouldn't be surprised if he was to actually drop out now.

Please re-read my post I mentioned steps he can take to STAY IN the program

...It separates the people that are there to learn and the people that are there to party. Last year, I don't even think 25% of the class failed out.

Who on earth moves to T Bay for the parties????, if you came to party you picked the WRONG TOWN unless a broke down club and some HUGE women make a party lol


All jokes aside

They have been ejecting over half the class for quite some time now, if that last bunch did better then means confed is stepping their game up and that's GREAT


Something that always comes to mind mind, a FAA flight instructor needs to hold a 80% pass ratio, anything under that they will have to complete some re-training. This is because the FAA feels that a flight instructor should be able to have a 80% pass rate with no issue. If confed was a flight instructor their failure rate would not cut it, NOT ONE YEAR have they held a 80% pass rate, heck they average about a 50% pass rate, must be all those "party" students.

It would be nice if you actually told him the truth about it from the get go instead of filling his head with common misconceptions.

you are correct and I did tell him the truth.

If you make the grade you stay in the program, nothing sinister or diabolical about it. Wouldn't be an effective business otherwise.

lol, never said confed is run by Dr. Evil, just they have some weird practices and some iffy educators. In places like the US, having a HUGE final and never showing the student the test after it has been graded does not fly in many places.

Also if he drops out he will not get the balance of his residence or mean plan back, something that would also cause some static in many places.

[ogc]

Out of curiosity, does anyone here have any experience with a University, and then attending a place like Confed?

Im interested to know whether or not you actually found it considerably more difficult or on par with other forms of post secondary education.

[the_cr]

In highschool or university I don't remember getting an exam back after it was written, or even a mark for the exam alone, just the course mark after that so I don't expect any institution to start now. They aren't looking to push out a certain number of students. If 80 students maintain the grades needed, then that's how many move on.

However, it does happen that students enter the course that may not be prepared for the workload, may decide they'd prefer a different program, or any of a myriad other reasons.

Just because the requirements are a little stiffer doesn't mean anyone's getting pushed out or cut out.

[AllClutch]

Pass the test and solo in less than 16 hours and you get free flight training from exceptional, experienced mostly class one instructor including a 30 hour bush course on a 180.
Most people that fail that exam are the ones that can't stop partying for more that an hour to study.
That's the truth of the situation.
Lots of con grads flying for the show now, I don't think I have to defend the school too badly as its reputation defends itself.

One thing that's clear though is that throughout your career you will continue to bump into other grads even from previous years and it's almost like there is an instant connection that you wouldn't have from anyothet puppy mill school.

[Tim]

6) if you are a good stick and rudder this will amount to very little in confed (as well as other college programs), if you dont make it past the 1st semester, just go find a flight school carry on.

im not sure where you got this, between the aerobatics and above-and-beyond style flight training derived from the military at sault, plus float flying at confed i think stick and rudder skills are essential at each. while i certainly agree that book smarts have nothing to do with flying skill, emphasizing knowledge can be done at the same time as emphasizing stick and rudder skills. after having been involved at a six flight schools, the quality and depth of flight instruction at sault college was the best ive seen of the lot. i dont generally recommend the sault to a lot of people because i didnt like many of the higher ups at the school and the atmosphere they created, but you graduate from there with more flying skills than a lot of other flight schools out there plus you get the classroom stuff to go with it. that being said, i think you hit the nail on the head when you said just go find a flight school and carry on. most people that failed out of sault who were serious about flying still got where they wanted to go and often times quicker than those of us that graduated from the sault due to the headstart they get by finishing quicker somewhere else.

to the OP, keep in mind the first semester is the hardest. if you can tough it out it should get easier for you. see if you can adjust your study habits and try to find a balance. sort of a generic answer, but what im getting at is your current methods dont seem to be working for you, so make some changes. ive had some experience instructing students that learn at a bit slower pace, and ive often found a change like ive described can make a big difference. theres a lot of different learning/study methods that can get the same result. someone mentioned free tutors, why not use em!!

[DaveC]

OP stay in there and rough it out. Spend an hour studying the material BEFORE you go to lecture. You will end up spending a copious amount of money if you do it the private way, and you will have a hard time finding a job afterwards.

[lownslow]

No matter what flight school you go to, college or otherwise, they're there to give you these:


Not these:


Only you can make yourself succeed. We're only a few weeks in now so I really don't think it's too late to turn things around. Admitting to your instructors that you're falling behind isn't a sign of weakness, it shows you want to succeed. Bear in mind, though, that they can't do everything. A lot will fall on you to do.

I've both learned and instructed at an aviation college and having seen both sides I don't think there's any average person who can't succeed at it. Nothing comes naturally, it's just that some people already have the habits needed to make it a little easier. You can form those habits, too. Here's how:

1) Do your homework. I used to think that any teacher who assigned homework was just lazy or bad at their job. Turns out it serves an important role in cementing the concepts in your mind. It will probably only take you half an hour to forty minutes a day so get it done between class and dinner and the rest of the night will be yours. Without any other effort, I would assume most people can pick up their marks by around 10% just by doing homework.

2) Take notes in class and re-read them later. While you're writing the information down you'll probably be too busy to absorb it all but by the end of class you'll have the material written down in your own words. Who better to learn from than yourself?

3) Try to find the test questions before the test. Some people will call this cheating but I call it picking out what the instructor feels is the important stuff. You may notice in class that a particular homework question gets a lot of attention the next day. You may have a used textbook with circles around certain concepts or problems. Obviously you want to make sure you know all the material but the things that are made to stand out could be extra important to know. I'm NOT talking about getting a copy of last year's test and memorizing the answers. Sure, if you have access to past tests then have a look at what the prof expects but understand that you may not get the same test. Consider past tests to be the same as the sample test in the back of your FTGU or the Aerocourse books. They give you an idea of what types of questions to expect and show where your weak areas are.

4) Consider how you look at things. I find tests became a lot easier when I realized that the information on them is stuff I may need to know at any time, not just stuff I needed to know when I wrote the test. The same applies to a flight test. The standards given are what's expected of a pilot on every flight, every day. Once you get that in your head, big scary flight test just becomes another afternoon in the sky.

5) Prioritize. What's more important: success or beer? The successful people in your class will do what they have to do before partying and also consider the after effects of going out and what the repercussions may be. Go ahead and have a good time, just do it at the right time. There will be lots of opportunities to go out so you can pick and choose when you do it. There may be a lot of people trying to pull you away from your schoolwork but stick to it and you'll find those distractions will mostly be gone in the new year.

There, that's what I have off the top of my head. Think it over, hopefully it will help you make a decision on what to do. Also, feel free to PM me with anything more specific.

LnS.

[SuperchargedRS]

Out of curiosity, does anyone here have any experience with a University, and then attending a place like Confed?

Im interested to know whether or not you actually found it considerably more difficult or on par with other forms of post secondary education.

Yep, University system in the States, Medic training in the US, and flight training stateside as well.

The material at confed is not difficult; I just don’t think it is presented as well as it could be.

3) Try to find the test questions before the test. Some people will call this cheating but I call it picking out what the instructor feels is the important stuff.

I AGREE!! BUT that would take the mystery out of the "mystery test", the only time confed will let you see the questions on that test is when you are taking it, like I said you dont even get it see it after it is graded. They guard that last test like launch codes.

In highschool or university I don't remember getting an exam back after it was written, or even a mark for the exam alone…

…Just because the requirements are a little stiffer doesn't mean anyone's getting pushed out or cut out.

That does not cut the mustard at large university, does not cut it when you have a large amount of money out for tuition, or time invested.

If you say I am wrong you better show me how I am wrong, else you are not providing proper education or proving to me I deserve, or dont deserve, to stay in the program.

With one exception (can you guess where) I have ALWAYS received all my papers and tests back after they were marked.

This allows the student to see where they had issues whilst providing a level of accountability for the school.

1)You take the test, submit it to the school

2) They mark it and record the grade

3) The school gives you the CORRECTED paper back with your grade on it.

Just like a bank, you give them your cash, they process it and give you a receipt back; this serves as proof (and accuracy) of the transaction and eliminates any inaccuracy as well as any BS.

[lownslow]

3) Try to find the test questions before the test. Some people will call this cheating but I call it picking out what the instructor feels is the important stuff.

I AGREE!! BUT that would take the mystery out of the "mystery test", the only time confed will let you see the questions on that test is when you are taking it, like I said you dont even get it see it after it is graded. They guard that last test like launch codes.

Perhaps I don't understand this mystery test. Is it a sampling of everything (like you'd see on a TC written exam) or is it a matter of one year handing out a meteorology exam then the next year blindsiding the class with English?

If it's the sampling there's no reason the class ahead of you can't give you some idea of the types of questions to expect. Of course, getting last year's test in your hands could be the worst thing some people could do. It happened a number years ago in the Soo when the well-guarded commercial qualifier fell into someone's possession and resulted in a large portion of the class studying only the answers to that one test. It ended in quite the massacre as far as class size was concerned. Like I said in my earlier post, do whatever works to get an idea of what type of questions to expect but use it to guide your studying, not as a sole method of studying. I think I might have said other important things in my post, too.

LnS.

[AUGER9]

The test is not a "mystery." It's the same very style as the TC exams, just more difficult. As for getting answers to it from the students before- that won't help (they have IIRC 14 different exams for the PPL.).

[Typhoon]

lownslow,

This 'mystery' test that SuperchargedRS keeps to referring to it as is NOT a mystery test. I don't understand why he keeps calling it that because it's far from it. Out of curiosity Supercharged, where do you get your info from because it seems like you have a lot to say about it and most of it isn't correct.

I graduated from Confed recently and can tell you that as a student there at the end of the first semester you have three exams related to ground school. Two of these exams are college written followed by the TC PPL exam. BOTH of the College exams are directly related to the TC exam and basically provide an exam as to what students can expect on the TC PPL exam. There are NO surprises at all! The first exam you write at the college was worth a miniscule amount and gave you an idea of what was going to be on your final college exam (which was written 2 days later) which was worth a lot more of your grade. They basically gave you a quick insight of the final exam for heavens sake (as well as the TC)!

There was no mystery to these exams. ALL the information was covered in class and there were no blind sides! If students pass the exams, they move on. Simple as that.

[jump154]

My experience - all through my education I got graded tests/assignemtns back during course work, but Final Exams to determine the grade I got, never. This applies to exams at 16 and 18 in the UK, University Finals and most recently my Transport Canada PPAER. yes - TC gave back their 'areas of recommended study' after the exam, but not the actual questions and answers.

If an exam is a pass/fail to move on to the next stage, or to assign a final grade, I see no need for it to be returned - If you fail you have failed - knowing why does not help you much. In the middle of the course, while still learning, it is a valuable tool, but at the end of a module the exam is there to test what you know at that point, not what you will know with 3 months of additional study.

As for integrity - all the above named examinations had procedures in place to check marking was fair, and also protest procedures if your grade was way off what you expected enabling an independant remarking. Still at no point was the original returned.