aircraft ownership costs???

[glockdude]

Hey people

Anyone here own a 150/152? If so could someone spill the beans on real world
costs of maintenance,annuals, 100hr/50hr, oil changes, etc. Parking?

Thanks

[robertsailor1]

A lot depends on the condition of the aircraft that you are thinking of purchasing because you have to take in consideration what it may be worth when you've finished building time in it. If you are mechanically skilled then some of the costs can be reduced. If you are able to purchase without a loan and are able to risk the hull insurance by only carrying PL PD then you'll have another large saving. How much time will you fly in a year also makes a big difference.
I can tell you that if you purchase well and get a good aircraft that you can work on yourself with the help of an engineer and you don't need hull insurance plus you can put on a 100 hours a year your costs per hour will be substantially less than renting. The ownership experience will also teach you things that you won't be taught renting aircraft.

[LousyFisherman]

1967 150G flies 100-140 hours a year.

$600 month covers all static costs
Annual $1800
Insurance $2400
Tie down/CFS etc

$30 hour dry for each FLYING hour
15.50 goes to capital accounts for engine and prop.

$13 -$14.50 covers all oil, and extra maintenance. The interior
is kind of ratty but we fix all equipment, usually to the
tune of $1000-1500 per year.

LF

[SuperchargedRS]

1967 150G flies 100-140 hours a year.

$600 month covers all static costs
Annual $1800
Insurance $2400
Tie down/CFS etc

$30 hour dry for each FLYING hour
15.50 goes to capital accounts for engine and prop.

$13 -$14.50 covers all oil, and extra maintenance. The interior
is kind of ratty but we fix all equipment, usually to the
tune of $1000-1500 per year.

LF

I dont know about a C150, but I pay $1200 a year for full coverage insurance on my Stinson (4 place taildragger), just under $1k for annual, $300mo for hangar, I would think the annual on a little metal plane would be less (presuming it's in great shape to begin with). The insurance should also be less being it's a 2 place trike trainer???

Another thought on insurance, a few guys around the airport were talking to me about insuring the plane for liability and non-movement only (i.e. getting blown over in a wind while outside, fuel truck clipping your wing etc), thought being that is where you are most likely to get damaged and if something happens in the air where the plane is heavly damaged chances are you wont be around to worry about it. This isnt what I do, but just a thought for you

[ScudRunner]

Lots of information out on the Web there are all sorts of clubs and groups specifically for a Cessna 150/152 here are a few. Most of it is for the american market but a little research and you can figure out your costs.

http://www.cessna150-152club.com/

http://www.cessna150.net/

Plug in your #s to this spread sheet:
http://www.cessna150-152.com/Cost_of_Ownership.xls

[glockdude]

Thanks for the replys.

I had a few prices from a few years ago.
I did get a rought quote on insurance which was way less than I thought, and everything is included.

Maintenance costs is mainly what I'm more worried about. I could perform all the maintencance functions including a complete overhaul however space, and a legal signature I dont have.

If a 100hr is the same as a annual which is over a grand then it could get expensive over the year.

Thanks for the links.

[CpnCrunch]

Thanks for the replys.

I had a few prices from a few years ago.
I did get a rought quote on insurance which was way less than I thought, and everything is included.

Maintenance costs is mainly what I'm more worried about. I could perform all the maintencance functions including a complete overhaul however space, and a legal signature I dont have.

If a 100hr is the same as a annual which is over a grand then it could get expensive over the year.

Thanks for the links.

Yes, maintenance is the big unknown. You might get away with $1000 annuals, but if something comes up then you could be looking at $5k-$10k. I would budget about $3k/year.

Also, the price of maintenance depends on who does it. If you go to a big shop, you'll pay $$$. If you go to your neighbourhood freelance AME it will be a lot cheaper.

You can help yourself by doing a good pre-purchase inspection. However even with the best plane, you're still talking about something that is 50 years old and you are inevitably going to have expensive things breaking in the future.

[ozone]

1967 c150g

Average 5.7gph. Avgas these days ranges $1.65-2.10/L. If you are going to be doing a lot of flying you can purchase a mogas stc for about $150. Supreme car gas is about $1.40/L right now

Insurance costs me $1000/year including $28000 hull coverage

Tiedown I'm paying $30/month

[Big Pistons Forever]

Maintainance is the killer for small aircraft as the most first time owners end up being shocked at the cost of parts. The result is that there is a lot of owners have scrimped on major repairs for many years and are now selling the aircraft before having to spend big dollars.

A perfect example is C 150's. Almost every example being advertised for sale has an engine that is past TBO and running on condition. This is because Parts and labour for overhauling the engine will be a minimum of $20,000 and may be more if engine mount/baffle replacement/exhaust replacement/cowl repairs are also needed. This means the cost of the overhaul is more than the selling price of the aircraft and will never be recovered.

my 02 cents

1) Before you start looking find a good AME and listen to what he says.

2) Be prepared to spend at least $1000 on the prepurchase inspection.

3) Buy the very best aircraft you can find, it will always be the cheapest purchase in the long run.

4) Buying an aircraft is easy, selling it is much harder. Some of the aircraft you see advertised have been for sale for years. If you plan to buy something fly the pants off it for a year then sell it you are taking a huge risk. Yes it may work out great but it could also just as easily turn into a near total loss.

5) There are many intangible benefits to aircraft ownership, but saving money should not be the sole aim. In the long run renting is cheaper for almost everyone.

[down north]

none

[glockdude]

Excellent post guys, I still think it might be worth the agravation to own vs rent. Thats the way Im looking at it. However it still needing more information in order to make a rational decision. An impulse buy at this stage of the game will make or break my go at CPL/MIFR
If anyone has more imput its totaly welcome.
Thanks in advace.

[robertsailor1]

Its really not that complex, on average if you fly a hundred hours a year or more then owning is always going to be cheaper. Do you think that flight schools are so nice that rent you aircraft that they lose money on. So yes its cheaper and there are certain privileges in ownership that you'll never get through renting.
OK with that said, can you afford to own? Are you living from pay cheque to pay cheque? If you had to write a larger cheque could you do it without effecting your basic every day expenses. If owning a $20,000 aircraft is play money then just go do your thing.
If its not then maybe it might be better renting even though the cost is much higher.

[DaveC]

Sorry to resurrect this thread - I am now dealing with the same situation.

Most of the 150's I've seen are all 1500 SMOH (so it has 300-400 if lucky left on it, then a $20,000 overhaul).
There is one I saw yesterday, nice clean, paint was good. 18500 TTAF though! 50 SMOH, fully IFR. He wanted $27,000 or $15000 partnership.

[oldncold]

planequest.com has a very good operational cost for most general aviation aircraft. Pick an aircraft then, add info this allows you to change the parameters ie fuel your costs. It will then give you cost per mile fixed and variable etc.
Good luck and make sure you do a good airworthiness directive search before you sign on the dotted line. Your ame should do this but this is one of the most time consuming parts of the prepurchase so with a little dilligence you can enter serial # any stc's/ additional equipment /should save a few hundred $ in ame time .
[b] Remember this[/b] to an ame is not responsible for the airworthiness of the aircraft the OWNER IS ! The ame [b]IS [/b] responsible for their own work >that is what they sign off on . A great ame will make solid recommendations to the owner of what needs to be done to maintain the aircraft in order to conform to the orginal type certificate as ammended by ad's and sb's stc's etc.. He /She will show you the old worn parts vs the new installed parts. in essense a knowledgeable 'doctor of aircraft' leting you know you should lose some weight or replace this or that before a major condition arises. but if you refuse to heed the advice it is your keester .

[JAHinYYC]

Sorry to resurrect this thread - I am now dealing with the same situation.

Most of the 150's I've seen are all 1500 SMOH (so it has 300-400 if lucky left on it, then a $20,000 overhaul).
There is one I saw yesterday, nice clean, paint was good. 18500 TTAF though! 50 SMOH, fully IFR. He wanted $27,000 or $15000 partnership.

The valuation basics for a C150 can be pretty straight forward, though pride of ownership sometimes makes people lose sense of reality. Basically $10,000 for the hull in good condition and $20,000 for the engine at zero time TBO. For each hour over zero deduct $11.50 ($20,000/1800).

A Garmin 430W in a C150 may make it more desireable to buy, but it is an example of over capitalizing something.