Canadian Air and Space Museum evicted

wavey · Post by **wavey** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:19 am

I don't post on here often, but I found this to be truly saddening: http://www.thestar.com/news/article/105 ... icted?bn=1

jump154 · Post by **jump154** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:54 am

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/ ... ice-110920

More Detail.

Sad indeed, just glad I visited last summer while I had a chance.

Dash-Ate · Post by **Dash-Ate** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:10 pm

Do you think the new toronto-hating mayor will step in and save this valuable piece of history? Or does he lump Museums in with limp lefty liberal causes? He looks like a swell guy.

GlobalXV · Post by **GlobalXV** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:03 pm

Welcome ...... to ...... Canada!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where is the NDP on this one?. Heritage ...>? What a disgraceful article / event.

jeff_w_yeg · Post by **jeff_w_yeg** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:29 pm

It does suck that they're shutting it down and being forced to move, but let's face it: $100,000 behind on the rent?

Yikes...

Jeff @ YYC

mcrit · Post by **mcrit** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:49 pm

Drop the CEO of Downsview Park a line and let him know what you think.
http://www.soknacki.com/contact/default.php

KK7 · Post by **KK7** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:46 pm

Flip this situation around, you are the owner of a hangar and you rent it out. They owe you $100 000, that's a lot of money in my books. They can give you $22 000 but if you know you're not likely to see the rest for a long long time... It sucks but this museum is not well visited and I think they had a major marketing problem. Not many people know about it. I wish the museum could stay open, but maybe it's time to move the artifacts to another place where they can be enjoyed by more people?

Bushav8er · Post by **Bushav8er** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:35 am

KK7 wrote:Flip this situation around, you are the owner of a hangar and you rent it out. They owe you $100 000, that's a lot of money in my books. They can give you $22 000 but if you know you're not likely to see the rest for a long long time... It sucks but this museum is not well visited and I think they had a major marketing problem. Not many people know about it. I wish the museum could stay open, but maybe it's time to move the artifacts to another place where they can be enjoyed by more people?

Fair enough BUT lets not lose the building(s) to developers either. It is historically significant on its own.

Human Factor · Post by **Human Factor** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:29 am

KK7 wrote:Flip this situation around, you are the owner of a hangar and you rent it out. They owe you $100 000, that's a lot of money in my books. They can give you $22 000 but if you know you're not likely to see the rest for a long long time... It sucks but this museum is not well visited and I think they had a major marketing problem. Not many people know about it. I wish the museum could stay open, but maybe it's time to move the artifacts to another place where they can be enjoyed by more people?

This is true. Before the article of its demise was published, I had no idea that it existed!

KK7 · Post by **KK7** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:24 am

I frequented the Downsview area for two years and still didn't hear about it. It wasn't until it was mentioned in passing in a news article somewhere that I heard about it. If nothing else this article is great marketing for the museum, too bad it spells its demise. I never got the chance to visit it, but hopefully I can find its contents in other museums or in a new location.

mcrit · Post by **mcrit** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:15 pm

KK7 wrote:Flip this situation around, you are the owner of a hangar and you rent it out.

Overall a good point, except this is not about a hangar for rent. This is about a Crown Corporation that is charged with maintaining a park. Evicting a unique museum that is closely related to the heritage of the site, in my opinion, runs counter to the purposed and stated visions of said Crown Corporation.

SeptRepair · Post by **SeptRepair** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:36 pm

As articulated by the Board of Directors, "Downsview Park is a unique urban recreational green space, a safe and peaceful place developed according to the principles of environmental, economic and social sustainability, for Canadians to enjoy in all seasons. The park reflects Canada's mosaic brilliance and celebrates its past, present and future accomplishments."

That's their vision.

I can not find the part where they "Downsview Park" commit to the subsidization of a poorly run museum.

FL_CH · Post by **FL_CH** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:59 pm

I love aviation, and news like this is always saddening, but it got me thinking what a good, interesting aviation museum would need to attract people.

It would need to be interactive. If it's enough to simply put a bunch of 5,000 BC artefacts on display in a traditional history museum, aviation is about the experience - the sensations, the sounds, the smells, and the technology...Put a simple flight simulator kids can play with and it will attract more people than a static display of an Arrow replica. A mock-up of the Control Tower with radar animations, and sounds would be great as well - heck, I would go see that myself. How about a live flap mechanism operation off a 727? Cockpit mock-up with a throttle lever linked to the engine recordings? A pushback truck simulation?

I would be taking my kids to a place like this twice a year.

Or just move the museum close to Pearson, and offer a good view of the runway, and charge money for access. All those spotters will be there every other weekend. Most people don't know there is an airfield at Downsview, let alone a museum.

Tom H · Post by **Tom H** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:14 pm

FL_CH

Please come on by the Alberta Aviation Museum in Edmonton, I think we fill all your requests with interactives, select aircraft the kids can get in to, 11 mini theaters and multiple flight simulators.

For the hardcore aviation gang...approx 50 aircraft from 1918 to 1979 Commercial and Military, a restoration area you can observe from the inside and on select days a DC6 simulator featuring modern technology.

Now the commercial break is out of the way...

I believe there are (3) issues here that need looked at.
- The hangar housing the Museum should be a National historic site, it is the place that brought us everything from Tiger and Fox Moths to the Beaver and Twin Otter. The place where STOL became practical and operated by Canadian greats such as Punch Dickins and Russ Bannock.

- This event highlights how we treat our history in general and our aviation history in particular. We support the arts but not our Canadian Heritage. We support the Multicultural Heritage of New Canadians (which I do not have a problem with) but not the Canadian Heritage that built the country and its ability to support Multiculturalism.

There is something wrong with this picture...we don't teach our history in schools, promote it to the citizens and definitely don't support it politically or publicly (to any extent)

- What brought the Canadian Air and Space Museum to the position it's in. I don't have any informatin that the rest posting don't...but what happened to put the Museum in this position and can we learn from this so it doesn't happen again?

Tom

Tom H · Post by **Tom H** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:12 pm

SeptRepair wrote:As articulated by the Board of Directors, "Downsview Park is a unique urban recreational green space, a safe and peaceful place developed according to the principles of environmental, economic and social sustainability, for Canadians to enjoy in all seasons. The park reflects Canada's mosaic brilliance and celebrates its past, present and future accomplishments."

That's their vision.

I can not find the part where they "Downsview Park" commit to the subsidization of a poorly run museum.

This post didn't sit well with me so I took a little time to think things over before replying.

Seeing as no one here including me has inside knowledge of the Museum operations I am not going to comment on the Museum or its operation, but only to the Vision statement and values as posted on the Downsview site.

From the Vision Statement...
"Vision
As articulated by the Board of Directors, "Downsview Park is a unique urban recreational green space, a safe and peaceful place developed according to the principles of environmental, economic and social sustainability, for Canadians to enjoy in all seasons. The park reflects Canada's mosaic brilliance and celebrates its past, present and future accomplishments."

How is destroying a Historic site that made STOL practical and brought the technology to the world celebrating Canada's past accomplishments?

Is it not denying present and future generations the knowledge and ability so see, feel and touch the history that has brought us to today?

Interesting that Vision statement isn't it?

Values
Downsview Park is designed to support environmental, social and economic sustainability. The park offers a place for exploration, innovation and learning and fosters a sense of stewardship for grassroots groups, neighbourhood organizations, businesses, educational organizations and all Canadians. People of all demographics are encouraged to come and explore Downsview Park, where culture, sport, technology and nature mingle in the spirit of play. As a work in progress, the park will continue to evolve, as will its beauty, and serve as a legacy for generations to come.

How is destroying this historic site create a legacy for generations to come? Seems to be denying our history for generations to come to me.

Tom

Beefitarian · Post by **Beefitarian** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:33 pm

Just strike the word "past" there so they can move on with their new vision, wipe out the museum, rent out the space to someone profitable.
How can they celebrate the future if they don't make lots of money? Directors are expensive.

Rudy · Post by **Rudy** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:48 pm

I hope the collection ends up in the Canadian Aviation and Space Museum in Ottawa or the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum in Hamilton or the National Air Force Museum of Canada in Trenton.

Moose47 · Post by **Moose47** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:18 am

The museum signed a lease agreement about 18 months ago for 15,000 bucks a month. The museum never generated anywhere that amount of revenue per month, hence the bills began to pile up which led to their unfortunate prediciment.

Let's hope that the museum's collection finds a good home or homes.

Cheers...Chris

plhought · Post by **plhought** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:00 pm

Listened to the CEO last night on As It Happens.

What a hack.

Hiding behind the guise of "restoring a heritage building" to find a way to get $$$ making ice rinks installed.
Honestly it's probably cheaper to build a purpose built arena then convert an aging hanger. Just lazyness on the Park Corporation in my mind.
Rather then do the work to establish grants and federal/provincial funding to retain a good collection and historical building...just use the "unsolicited" (his quote not mine) requests to turn it into a hockey rink....don't need to worry about a building etc.

Imagine what the ice rink groups' gonna charge for icetime...and I bet the Park Corporation wont see much of that either...

Argh just baffles the mind....

Mind you I suppose the museum could have worked for more grants and such, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were topped out on lottery funding and grants...etc...

Like for f*** sakes it's a federal crown corporation. Bloody ice rinks ahead of decades of aviation heritage? What. The. F***.

Whatever. What a pity. Always wanted to visit Downsview, never had the chance. Guess I missed my chance this time. Hope all the good volunteers who got together and "saved" most of collection can get something together in the future....

http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/episode/2 ... r-21-2011/

In part 3 I believe.

fleet16b · Post by **fleet16b** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:22 pm

While I hope the Museum survives this problem, most do not realize that they have been operating pretty much month to month for a few years now and have not done much to improve their plight.
There has been much in fighting between the Board , volunteers etc with dismissals, firings etc. It seems like it has always been like that there.
Secondly , while the buildings are very historically important, they are located in an area that is less than ideal for the general public.
Also, the Museum needs to get people more aware of it's existence. Lots of people, even aviation people, have no idea that it even exists.
Either the Museum is not generating the revenue needed to sustain itself or the money made is not being managed properly
However, the biggest issue is the repeated rumors of the instability of the Board Directors over the years. This issue is well known within the aviation community and it hurts the Museum and it's reputation more than they actually realize. Being in the Vintage Aviation world for over 30 yrs, I constantly see peoples attitude towards the Museum as a bit of a joke. It is sad to listen to this but it is repeatedly heard in Vintage Aviation circles
Please don't get me wrong I am behind the Museum as a whole and hope it survives but the people running it need to take a hard serious look at what is happening , put their egos and control issues etc aside and get together and agree on a common plan of direction for the Museum.
Hopefully the Museum overcomes this issue.

warbirdpilot7 · Post by **warbirdpilot7** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:54 am

I have flown into Downsview and went to this museum a few times. It is also about the historic buildings as well as the contents.
This museum needs to remain open for all of us to enjoy.

Yes it is at Downsview and there is nothing fun or enjoyable about driving anywhere in the vicinity of Toronto.

To even think of rebuilding the site for a hockey complex is absolutely insane.

I wish the museum all the best....

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