A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

This forum has been developed to discuss flight instruction/University and College programs.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Right Seat Captain, lilfssister, North Shore

Chuck Ellsworth
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3074
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:49 am
Location: Always moving

Re: A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

Post by Chuck Ellsworth »

Oh, I am well aware of what he is pointing out with regard to the big airlines and their training and hiring practices and properly monitored it is quite successful.

We do however seem to have different opinions on the value of pilot experience in the rest of aviation.

When I was in the position of hiring pilots I looked very carefully at their experience level and used various methods of determining their background, it may surprise you to know I never looked at their log books as proof of their flying experience.
---------- ADS -----------
 
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.

After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
User avatar
Beefitarian
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 6605
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:53 am
Location: A couple of meters away from others.

Post by Beefitarian »

Obviously I don't have your experience so I'm partly speculating here but I think you're saying hours alone don't make for experience? Sometimes it's what happened in those hours and who they are?

I know a couple of times when I was doing CPL training, I went up with an instructor that must have had more hours and experience than me but was left annoyed that I paid $60 to give the guy an airplane ride.
---------- ADS -----------
 
767
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 549
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:21 am

Re: A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

Post by 767 »

ybwflyguy wrote:
In some ways I agree, but how many people will go right seat in an airliner here in Canada with 1000hrs in a 172. That instructor is likely to next fly a Navajo, followed by a captain position. Then perhaps to a King Air. Whatever their path, they're likely to have a good few thousand hours spent in complex machines flying IMC, icing, thunderstorms, system malfunctions etc. etc. possibly with a great deal of PIC time in these situations.

You forgot about the "RAMP". Some companies (in Canada, im not sure about other places) like to see how the pilot loads bags into an airplane, and if it goes well, then most likely the pilot will be hired. Overseas is definitely a better option than the "RAMP".

And the post earlier about returning to Canada and not being able to get in..... UNBELIEVABLE... :evil:
---------- ADS -----------
 
Never buy 1$ tickets
DAVE THE RAVE
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:43 am
Location: AT A MEGA CLUB NEAR U

Re: A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

Post by DAVE THE RAVE »

Paying for your type rating up front. Isn't that what is happening at Air Canada anyway? $37.3K 1st year and $42.4K year 2. I think people going ahead and accepting these wages are doing the Canadian aviation industry a disservice as much as guy/gals paying for their type rating up front.

If you want to disparage the guy for paying for his own type rating, let's start a thread on the Air Canada page for pilots who are willing to prostitute themselves to Air Canada.
---------- ADS -----------
 
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

Post by photofly »

I read what you type, but I have the feeling you either have not really researched my background when you start this nonsense about how they do it in Europe or you are just jerking my chain.
Perhaps it would be more constructive for you to explain what's nonsense?

I'm not really sure what we disagree on. I'm sure that the "self-improver" route creates fine pilots - North American airline aircraft are operated by them. But it's not the only way to run a safe airline, I know we agree on that too.
---------- ADS -----------
 
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

Post by photofly »

In most cases flying many hours in the frozen north will be somewhat difficult manual or hands on flying. Of course that should be valuable experience. No?
Yes. But valuable for what, exactly? And how applicable is it to flying a 737? It's not a question I can anwer myself, but it's certainly one that ICAO, the various regulators, and the airlines are asking. For instance, have a look at this article: http://www.icao.int/icao/en/jr/2007/6203_en.pdf (page 15) about the new multi crew pilot licence.

Here's how it's going to work in Canada:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca- ... _GUIDE.PDF

Perhaps . was involved in the consultation process - I don't know. But it does look like pilots with 200 (240, actually) hours could soon be sitting right seat at say Air Canada.
---------- ADS -----------
 
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
User avatar
Beefitarian
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 6605
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:53 am
Location: A couple of meters away from others.

Post by Beefitarian »

photofly wrote:
In most cases flying many hours in the frozen north will be somewhat difficult manual or hands on flying. Of course that should be valuable experience. No?
Yes. But valuable for what, exactly?
Flying airplanes. I guess that sort of experience may not be usefull anymore for someone that is going to become a flight managament system operator. Maybe I'm living in the past when they would hire people to pilot even large aircraft I suppose.
photofly wrote: But it does look like pilots with 200 (240, actually) hours could soon be sitting right seat at say Air Canada.
Well now that the little guy has started kindergarten I'll need to find some before and afterschool supervision before I can do that. Do I still need to pass that pstar? Guess I'll have to study harder.
---------- ADS -----------
 
AEROBAT
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 554
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:27 am

Re: A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

Post by AEROBAT »

Here's how it's going to work in Canada:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca- ... _GUIDE.PDF

Perhaps . was involved in the consultation process - I don't know. But it does look like pilots with 200 (240, actually) hours could soon be sitting right seat at say Air Canada.[/quote]

Pretty bizzare if you ask me. I wonder what the reaction of the public will be when they start to impliment this? They probably won't even care I suppose.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Grantmac
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:29 pm
Location: Coming home to YYJ soon.

Re: A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

Post by Grantmac »

AEROBAT wrote: Pretty bizzare if you ask me. I wonder what the reaction of the public will be when they start to impliment this? They probably won't even care I suppose.
Depends on if the tickets get cheaper, knock off $10 and the public would probably be happy with someones drunk uncle Cletus flying.

-Grant
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Bede
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4427
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:52 am

Re: A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

Post by Bede »

To the OP,

Just for curiosity, you mentioned you had sent out over 100 resumes. What sort of jobs were you applying to?

Also when you're done, you can post on here how you made out. If you end up on an Airbus, well, you can show the "haters" and perhaps be in a position to give some advice. If this is the last we hear from you, I guess we'll know you blew your money on something most of us advised you against.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Expat
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2383
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:58 am
Location: Central Asia

Re: A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

Post by Expat »

ybwflyguy wrote:
I understand the argument that is made is that 1000 hours teaching noobs from the right seat of a 172 is of very little use in flying, say, a 737NG. It's actually better then to get that 1000 hours in the right seat of the 737 in the first place. It's certainly advantageous from the trainee pilots point of view.

In some ways I agree, but how many people will go right seat in an airliner here in Canada with 1000hrs in a 172. That instructor is likely to next fly a Navajo, followed by a captain position. Then perhaps to a King Air. Whatever their path, they're likely to have a good few thousand hours spent in complex machines flying IMC, icing, thunderstorms, system malfunctions etc. etc. possibly with a great deal of PIC time in these situations. All this experience our two big airlines look at as prerequisite for flying a plane with a couple hundred passengers behind you. Unfortunately, with the lack of GA in Europe the airlines can't be this picky with their FOs. Seems as if all the emphasis is on theory (crazy amount of studying/exams) and money (i.e. enough to actually be in a position to apply to an airline).

Good point. Airlines in Europe and Asia will not rely on GA pilots from North America to fill their crew seats. They are designing training systems suited for their reality. That will mean a minimum of hours of quality training, and upwards mobility. The military does it, and that proves it can be done.
In addition, people getting into aviation in Europe and Asia tend to have the means to pay for their training much faster than in Canada. The ones I met either got military training, or had no problem spending 80k for training and type ratings.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Success in life is when the cognac that you drink is older than the women you drink it with.
DaveC
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:57 pm

Re: A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

Post by DaveC »

photofly wrote:
In most cases flying many hours in the frozen north will be somewhat difficult manual or hands on flying. Of course that should be valuable experience. No?
Yes. But valuable for what, exactly? And how applicable is it to flying a 737? It's not a question I can anwer myself, but it's certainly one that ICAO, the various regulators, and the airlines are asking. For instance, have a look at this article: http://www.icao.int/icao/en/jr/2007/6203_en.pdf (page 15) about the new multi crew pilot licence.

Here's how it's going to work in Canada:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca- ... _GUIDE.PDF

Perhaps . was involved in the consultation process - I don't know. But it does look like pilots with 200 (240, actually) hours could soon be sitting right seat at say Air Canada.
Anyone know more about this? This would directly affect a number of low-timers (including myself) that I know.
---------- ADS -----------
 
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

Post by photofly »

While looking at MPL posts on this forum, I noticed this post by a frequent contributor (which is rather relevant to the wisdom or otherwise of paying for your own type rating):
viewtopic.php?p=705777#p705777
---------- ADS -----------
 
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Chuck Ellsworth
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3074
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:49 am
Location: Always moving

Re: A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

Post by Chuck Ellsworth »

The last young pilot I talked to in Holland was doing the 737-800 sim training and as I recall he would have spent around 120,000 Euro by the time he finished......I'm not exactly sure but I think he said he was going to work for Ryan Air.

Keep in mind Canada and Europe have very little in common as far as commercial flying goes...and the training over there is more demanding, including cost wise.

We also had a cabin attendant who paid for her training up to the ATPL with a jet type rating...she obviously had not got a job as a pilot up until that time, but she was hopeful. She also spent around 120,000 Euro.
---------- ADS -----------
 
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.

After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
nookie201
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:54 pm

Re: A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

Post by nookie201 »

Go for it!, The Sim training you'll receive will be not wasted experience.

-G
---------- ADS -----------
 
Nearandfar
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:41 am

Re: A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

Post by Nearandfar »

What will the Type-rating cost? Not a bad plan considering what's going on in the industry in Asia.

I won't be at all surprised if you get picked up by a carrier. The industry is completely different in Asia compared to Canada.

In Asia you buy a type-rating. In Canada you spend 1 or 2 years loading/washing/de-icing/etc airplanes, you pick-up the bosses dry cleaning, drive the passengers around, clean the washrooms, etc., all while being paid dirt, for the privilege of being allowed to eventually fly one of his little airplanes for even less money. By the time you get any hours you have more than paid for your "type rating".

Let me know the cost and whether you think it would be better to go to the US for a rating.

Good luck!
---------- ADS -----------
 
DaveC
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:57 pm

Re: A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

Post by DaveC »

Nearandfar wrote:What will the Type-rating cost? Not a bad plan considering what's going on in the industry in Asia.

I won't be at all surprised if you get picked up by a carrier. The industry is completely different in Asia compared to Canada.

In Asia you buy a type-rating. In Canada you spend 1 or 2 years loading/washing/de-icing/etc airplanes, you pick-up the bosses dry cleaning, drive the passengers around, clean the washrooms, etc., all while being paid dirt, for the privilege of being allowed to eventually fly one of his little airplanes for even less money. By the time you get any hours you have more than paid for your "type rating".

Let me know the cost and whether you think it would be better to go to the US for a rating.

Good luck!
I want to disagree with you, but there is truth to that. There are some operators who do not rape their rampies though. Personally, i'd rather continue working my well paying job, pay for the rating and skip the slave labour.
---------- ADS -----------
 
carlosjaldin
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:31 pm

Re: A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

Post by carlosjaldin »

Hi if you are still interest to get a partner for the A320 please let me know.
---------- ADS -----------
 
straightpilot
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:13 pm

Re: A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

Post by straightpilot »

skip the slave labour
No one cares whether or not you spend a couple years cleaning toilets and "building character". What pisses them off is that you're jumping ahead of them, as they spend a couple years cleaning toilets and "building character". The funny part is that if they had the $$$, they'd do exactly the same thing as they're criticizing you for doing! But they don't have the $$$, so they clean toilets for a couple years, "building character" and hating people like you.

I think getting an A320 type rating would be educational and worthwhile, even if you never used it - what you would learn would make you a better pilot. Not important, I know.
---------- ADS -----------
 
azimuthaviation
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1409
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:34 pm

Re: A320 Type Rating- Looking for Training Partner

Post by azimuthaviation »

Whats with all the animosity? I always read about how pilots get screwed, paid lousy and are exploited by companies. But then when someone tries to take a different route he gets these kinds of responses? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. This guy is doing something else.

And its not like the airline pays you to learn to fly, you pay the airlines, with years of low paid service, months or years on the ramp, training bonds etc... Why spend your most productive energetic years emptying out the lavatory and loading luggage? \that wont make you a better pilot. You would be better off working in Northern Ab for a winter and saving enough to buy your own training then youre ahead, and independent.

Im sure with the attitudes of the people here Delay256 will have much more success in the middle east than here anyways
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Flight Training”