Old chauvanistic pigs

Frustrated and angry · Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:31 pm

Well holy shit, I certainly didn't expect this many respones are the general message of those responses.

It appears the most popular course of action would be to beat the living shit outta the CP, popular and amusing, but I think the best course of action would be to move on to a different company.

I will also clarify that she does not have day-to-day contact with the CP where he acts as discussed, but actually sees the CP rather infrequently, but everytime they do seem to meet he has some sexist comment.

There are people in the company who know of these instances, as my g/f is not the only female treated this way. I'm rather surprised that the very professional people who own/run the company would permit this behavior. My only guess is they are not aware of the behavior, as no one has come forward yet to complain.

Thanks for the responses.

TheCheez · Post by **TheCheez** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:43 pm

Patter:
That's exactly what I wanted to say, but couldn't put the words together quite right.

Bottom line, look for a new employer.

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:14 am

No Cheez, that's not the bottom line. The bottom line is make sure this kind of behavior does not go un punished. If as F and A says, other women in the company are being treated this way, then the cycle of abuse will not end until somebody comes forward and puts a stop to it. It takes one brave person to come forward, hopefuly others will follow.

Then go look for another employer.

Louis · Post by **Louis** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:58 am

It seems F and A's girlfriends' CP answers to the owners of the company, and that these people are professionnals and might be quite interested in hearing what she has to say about what is going on...

My idea: start looking for a new job in case things go sour, and knock on a few doors higher in the company and see what happens.

If nothing good happens, keep climbing up the ladder, eventually up to media / labour boards and so on... This might fix things at that employer and allow the pilot to go on with her life, keep working for that company and further her career.

Worst case scenario: intervention from above might fix things only on the surface and leave a bitter work atmosphere, which would justify looking for another job anyway, no matter what caused it in the first place.

Do nothing, and take it: you lose, so does any other female pilot that would later work in this company.

Do something: you win, and so does everyone else.

N2 · Post by N2 » Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:51 am

I would still have a word with the jerk that’s doing this face to face! Just let him know that his conduct is not welcome and should it continue you'll take the appropriate action as per the law. I would also be asking my girlfriend why she hasn’t complained to management, does she secretly like the attention? These are grounds for a sexual harassment suit, and no job, I don’t care what its doing is worth sweeping this under the carpet. So what he’s the CP who gives a crap he’s not above the law and your girlfriend has an obligation to stop this now so that others don’t have to endure the same type of treatment from this Ahole! Do the right thing man put a stop to it now!

PS Don’t listen to this BS about your girlfriend be blacklisted that’s crap. Any employer worth their salt wouldn’t hold something like this against her. It’s unacceptable behaviour and most decent companies don’t want employees such as the one your referring to.

Can someone tell me why some pilots are such JO's and do things like this? Over inflated egos is my thinking, for Pete's sake you just fly a damn airplane Einstein.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:58 am

http://www.canadian99s.org/

As I said.. Call up the 99s and they'll help you out.. Stop beating this subject and certainly don't beat the CP.

Airtids · Post by **Airtids** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:11 pm

Dog, good thing you went with the DCs eh!

justplanecrazy · Post by **justplanecrazy** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:06 pm

Louis wrote:If nothing good happens, keep climbing up the ladder, eventually up to media / labour boards and so on... This might fix things at that employer and allow the pilot to go on with her life, keep working for that company and further her career.

hahahaha...

This breaking news just in....

It appears that there has been some pony tail pulling in the local flight Ops. Witnesses say that the CP of *$$&# appeared to lean over and give two swift tugs to a certain pilots pony tail. He then proceeded to pat her bottom three times and kiss her on the lips once. Sources tell us that this is not the first time that an incident such as this has occured.

Your girlfriend is probably trying to hide that she's sleeping with the CP. Tell her that its o.k. as long as you both get a promotion.

... · Post by **...** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:46 pm

justplanecrazy wrote:
Your girlfriend is probably trying to hide that she's sleeping with the CP. Tell her that its o.k. as long as you both get a promotion.

Brutal!

You think there's trouble in paradise?

bandaid · Post by **bandaid** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 4:15 pm

JPC That's just sad. You know, it's that way of thinking that gets you guys in trouble in the first place. She puts up with it so she must be sleeping with the guy. Do you even think before you type, because your IQ just went down 40 points. I don't know, I can't think af anything to say other than grow up.

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 4:20 pm

I'll grant you it was an attempt at humour, a very poor one, but it appears to have laid an egg.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 8:19 pm

Go to a bookstore or the library and get a book called "No Place for a Lady" by Shirly Render. A good read and should give your g/f the confidence to stand up and fight. Captain Rosella Bjornson and many others have paved the way for her. Talk to the dirtbag first and if that doesn't work, go to upper management. If that doesn't work, then go to the 99's and/or the press and if all else fails, there is always the courts. Re-read N2's comments. You will not be blacklisted by other companies. That has been tried before and it does not work. She is backed up by the courts and popular opinion. If you can, keep us informed of the outcome.

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 8:26 pm

Met Rosella once, pretty cool lady flying a beat up old Cessna tail dragger.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 9:00 pm

I met Captain Bjornson when she was instructing at Winnipeg Flying Club, just before she got hired by Transair. Great lady and I heard a great pilot. I believe she helped to set the standards for pregnant pilots. She, and others like her, have paved the way, proving women have a place in the cockpit of modern airplanes. I firmly believe that sexual harassment does not have to be tolerated, by either sexes.
Now, if some cute young chick came on to me, I would be ______________.
But seriously, the male pshyce says that we cannot be sexually harassed, We do the harassing. Women are less so. Last fall, I fell and broke my leg so I was hobbling around on crutches for quite a while and some of the guys were making remarks about the old gimp and stuff like that. But my situation was only a temporary condition and I started the comments None of the comments were vindictive nor were they taken as such but it was not much of a stretch to imagine how cruel comments could hurt. In my case, they were not vindictive, more bad humour, and I could defend myself if I had to. Just whackem with my crutches. Walk a mile in my moccasins.

grouchy · Post by **grouchy** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 9:26 pm

What about us young chauvanistic pigs?

Sorry that's about the only humour I could see in this situation.
Whatever happened to women just slapping a guy? What could he do?

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 9:33 pm

Grouchy - slap back.

Frustrated and angry · Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:37 pm

oldtimer wrote: Re-read N2's comments. You will not be blacklisted by other companies. That has been tried before and it does not work. She is backed up by the courts and popular opinion.

That's good to hear. We have both been worried about the possibility of her not getting work at any other company if she starts raising concerns. From what has been posted on here, most of it anyway, I'm pretty sure she's going to confront the CP about his actions. Hopefully that will bring about a change.

bandaid · Post by **bandaid** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:42 pm

Good for her!

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:44 pm

Being made tu feel uncomfortable in this way, and being afraid to complain because of the variety of reasons listed is only one definition of terrorism. Furthermore, it is a Human Right's violation.

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:21 pm

Like oldtimer said, before you insult someone; walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets pissed off, you're a mile away, and you've got his shoes.

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:51 pm

I know this is kind of off limits on this forum, but I like Cat's way of doing things. He uses his own name. How about posting this guy's name? No punches thrown, and who wants to be the guy that a whole wack of pilots knows about now? I guess it would be time for your girlfriend to get another job though.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:01 pm

Bede :

That would be wrong.

It is inconceivable to me to denegrade someone based on nothing but a rumour.

My situation is vastly different, I am stating facts and have sufficient evidence to back up my statements.

As evident by TC's failure to respond or sue me.

. .

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:32 pm

Not to mention it's a good way to get yourself sued; if Cat wants to use his name, that's his option, but as he said, if you out someone on a rumour.....

justplanecrazy · Post by **justplanecrazy** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:57 pm

Frustrated and angry wrote:I'm going out on a limb here to ask for some help/advice. My girlfriend works for a charter company and has been there for 2 years. In that time she has been offered an advancement, signed the contract for training, but has never actually flown the airplane or been trained on it. Since she was awarded the advancement numerous people, all male, with less experience flying and with the company have been promoted to her job.

The CP has on occasion, pulled her ponytail from behind as she was walking down a hall-way, been asked if she wouldn't mind cleaning the house, and most recently on a transport canada monitored ride, commented, 'not bad for a gal' after finishing the ground part of the exam.

Is aviation still such an old boys club that this is acceptable? the comments made by the CP could be tolerated, but having people promoted ahead of her, to job she was promised, does NOT seem reasonable. Unfortunately, for her to complain to anyone in a position would brand her as a whistle-blower, probably get her fired, and essentially end her career as a pilot.

Any thoughts?

O.k. so I take it this type of humor isn't laughed at anymore. But really who the hell posts stuff like this?? The only thing you've told me is that the CP is a friendly down to earth guy, you're girlfriend cleans house just like any other pilot and that the CP may have to adjust his humor to become more PC.

I mean you're her boyfriend if she really feels there is a problem with the way she's treated but is to afraid to talk to him about it, then step up to the plate. I love those guys that have whisper behind a bunch of backs like a Sally Ann. Did you know what he did this week? Yet if that person ever asked him if there was a problem, he would quickly reply, "no sir."

Sometimes its just an honest mistake and he doesn't realise that he's conveying the attitude that you see. Before you blow this way out of proportion with harrasment charges and threats talk to the guy and let him know whats been going on. While you're at it, ask him about your girlfriends stale promotion, maybe there is a legitimate concern there.

Really how old are you?? Stand up for your girl already, or do you want Avcanada to do it for you?

Flybabe · Post by **Flybabe** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:02 am

Well... I didn't see any other ladies reply, so....

For the record, I was told by an operator that since my "boyfriend" was also a pilot I should just work for the same company as him because, in his opinion, when one left so did the other. I won't mention names but his initials are....

Just kidding.

Anyways, although I became more and more ticked off about it the more I thought about it, I dismissed the event because for the most part I did not want to become a shit disturber. Right or wrong? I don't know. I didn't need that company anyways.

I'm sure you all realize that we endure a constant barrage of seemingly innocuous comments all in the name of humour. I don't know how many times I was asked if I was the stewardess as the damn murkin fishermen boarded the twin otter.. could have smacked 'em all. I'm guessing the CP just has a poor grasp on the acceptibility of his comments. What's acceptable to one is not to the other. I'm sure it is all in the name of light humour - although it is not received that way.

In regards to the lack of advancement, a person has to wonder what else is going on.. it's difficult to take sides without knowing the whole situation, that being the story from BOTH sides.

My suggestion was already echoed here... find another company fast. In an ideal world the offending party would be penalized for improper behaviour but we all know aviation is anything BUT an ideal world!

I'm all for supporting the gal. Get out. Chalk it up to bad experience. What goes around comes around.

Old chauvanistic pigs

A new spin on it all

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