Looting Teens in Barrie Kill Good Samaritan

[Beefitarian]

I know you're right grimey and maybe I'm jumping niss too hard on this but I feel it's reasonable to think they may need to be penalised. I'm having a crisis of faith in our societies judicial system.

Karla Homolka?

[grimey]

Guy Paul Morin?

Yea. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that they shouldn't be punished according to the law (and 2nd degree murder is life, no parole for at least 10), or that there actions should be excused, only that they have (and should have) the right to a fair trial, in order to ensure that if they're convicted, it's for the right reasons. There are mistakes and shortcomings in every system, but I'd rather try everyone by a lengthly and somewhat cumbersome legal process, than simply drag them to the nearest tree and either lash them or hang them.

And as horrible as this is, benoit.baril's comment is hilarious.

[North Shore]

Guy Paul Morin, Erin Walsh, David Milgaard - there's several examples.

Even worse down in the States...

[Beefitarian]

Guy Paul Morin?

Yea. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that they shouldn't be punished according to the law (and 2nd degree murder is life, no parole for at least 10), or that there actions should be excused, only that they have (and should have) the right to a fair trial, in order to ensure that if they're convicted, it's for the right reasons. There are mistakes and shortcomings in every system, but I'd rather try everyone by a lengthly and somewhat cumbersome legal process, than simply drag them to the nearest tree and either lash them or hang them.

And as horrible as this is, benoit.baril's comment is hilarious.

I agree. I just have to be honest that I have concerns that our justice system is not just and has become too lenient.

Seriously some of the things you hear about some prisons seem like a reward more than punishment and I'm fine if that is the place you send someone for some crimes. If these guys only did their smashing spree or stole the money from the mini golf place and no one was harmed. Put them in a nice institute to get started on college.


I have worked in the tar sands and stayed in camp there. I have seen green sandwich meat on the second half of a sandwich after eating the first half. One of the guys was sick and stayed in his room for a couple of days. (he had a cold or something, the green meat was fine.) When another guy visited him he quiped, "Must feel like jail." he said in honesty though he knew it was somewhat humourous, "I've been in jail. This is worse."

I love J.R. Cash and believe in a certain amount of prison reform. I don't believe in being harsh for the sake of entertainment or something. I believe that Sheriff Joe Guy is running a prison that's much more realistic for rehabilitation and as harsh as some think it is, I believe it's fair. You are in prison because you made a choice to do something wrong.

[trey kule]

You're right, these guys should not get a fair trial, we should not look at any of the evidence, and there should not be a proper investigation. They should just be executed with out any due process

yeh....so what is your point?

Seriously, we will give them a fair and balanced trial...and then we will hang them up by painful parts to participate in a rodent nutritional program...

I think the frustration here, is it will go the other way...They will be portrayed as victims.. As non-monsters..I wont bother to repeat all the other posters but the result will be a plea bargin..Manslaughter...Maybe seven years..maybe ten for one of them and five for the rest....and the chances are that will work. ....if they are, in fact, guilty.

Like many others , I find this a tough situation to be less than emotional about, but the news is not the best source of information. Funny how we all condemn the news when it comes to incorrect reporting on aviaiton matters
, but then believe it when it suits our purposes..anybody but me think the media might just have skewed the facts a bit to make it sensational and emotional?
Or is balanced, unbiased reporting of an incident include a description of how he died in his beloved wife's arms while telling her he loved her, and maybe not mentioning that at the time he got stabbed he was bashing in one of the kids heads and strangling another one to death...but heck...we dont need to know that part.. We got all we need to know from the media..

[niss]

And that is exactly my point. Thank god these are settled in courts of law where all the available evidence is presented and deliberated on and not in the court of public opinion where emotions rule and fairness in judgment is ignored.

[mcrit]

settled in courts of law where ...... fairness in judgment.....

Courts of law are about law, not fairness. They run on sophistry and appeal to authority which means that they are pretty much in the dark ages when it comes to thinking.

... I'd rather try everyone by a lengthly and somewhat cumbersome legal process, than simply drag them to the nearest tree and either lash them or hang them.

No disrespect but I'd rather see them given a speedy and streamlined trial. If you don't raise your expectations then things will never improve.

[trey kule]

And that is exactly my point

Oh.. so you were not really advocating that?

Oh well, a good idea is still a good idea (Selma or Patty Bouvier)

[The Old Fogducker]

I think the Chinese govt has the right idea in cases as reprehensible and revolting as this ... give them a trial, and if found guilty, they are taken from the courtroom and shot in the back of the head within moments of the verdict being read into the record. Their blood is hosed down a drain, "splatter" is squeegee'd up, useable organs are harvested, and sold to the highest bidder.

That aside, there is too much thinking of the accused, not enough to restorative justice when someone does wrong to another, and the concept of punishment for disgusting acts seems to be lost on many of you. Further, the removal from general society, and protection of the populace is an important aspect of this as well.

OFD

[niss]

And that is exactly my point

Oh.. so you were not really advocating that?

Oh well, a good idea is still a good idea (Selma or Patty Bouvier)

My point was as you pointed out we are getting filtered information. We are not in any position to pass judgement on the accused. I will reserve my judgement for this heinous act, once the are found guilty in a court of law.

For better or for worse, I put my faith in the law.

[North Shore]

give them a trial, and if found guilty, they are taken from the courtroom and shot in the back of the head within moments of the verdict being read into the record. Their blood is hosed down a drain, "splatter" is squeegee'd up, useable organs are harvested, and sold to the highest bidder.

Geez, no incentive there to find people guilty, is there?

[rigpiggy]

Kind of like tissue typing them prior to trial, any chance a rich organ donor match may have something to do with a guilty verdict. The final insult is the bill for the bullet is sent to the family.

[Beefitarian]

Please stop bad talking China, without them, iPads would cost twice as much.

[dashx]

“They didn’t go in there to kill somebody,” she said.

Well of course they didn't. But 3 against 1 are never good odds.

Sad indeed.

[winds_in_flight_wtf]

Thank God cases are tried in a court of law and not in the court of public opinion.

Yet it's public opinion which elects the Government which in turn once upon a time established the court of law. So where have we gone wrong? Bottom line - these idiots are not victims. They took away a father , a husband, aka someone irreplaceable to said people. I think a fair verdict would be that of what the families want.

I will give Iran credit for one thing - allowing the victim to come forth and transpose the "eye for an eye" solution. Drop acid in their eyes and make them sit in a prison cell for the rest of their miserable lives. I know I know, pulling the victim card and getting them off free sounds much more attractive don't you think?

CBC - here is your chance to shine!

[niss]

I will give (The Islamic Republic of)Iran credit for one thing - allowing the victim to come forth and transpose the "eye for an eye" solution. Drop acid in their eyes and make them sit in a prison cell for the rest of their miserable lives.

Islam is one of the few religions which respects the rights of human beings ! Right. Islam is so clear cut - that it respectfully and specifically casts its thoughts about homosexuals and women! Please enlighten me with the direct quotations. They truly are inspiring. From Mobile prisons ( Niqab) to the widespread genital mutilation of Muslim girls in present day Europe, I have witnessed more Islam that I care to in a lifetime.

You're right. I want nothing to do with Islam , or this sick God of the Desert .

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=75956

So you are only ok with Islamic 'human rights' when it suits you?

[Beefitarian]

This just does not sit right. I'm still worried these guys are going to lie about what they did and why and evade justice.

I lived in one of the "bad neighborhoods" and went to a high school where the students were jerks. When someone said, "Hey now that's enough. I've got kids here." That would cause them to settle down or go somewhere else. They may have back talked but they would leave and no one would get stabbed.

Is the risk of getting stabbed in the neck the sort of accident, that's no big deal and just a hazard of going out in public now? I hope it is not got there yet and further that someone prevents it from getting there.

I know we don't want to revert to a time when a 15 year old syphons some gas and gets a permanent record but.. Don't we need something to deter anyone from thinking it's ok to kill someone you're arguing with?

[winds_in_flight_wtf]

I will give (The Islamic Republic of)Iran credit for one thing - allowing the victim to come forth and transpose the "eye for an eye" solution. Drop acid in their eyes and make them sit in a prison cell for the rest of their miserable lives.

Islam is one of the few religions which respects the rights of human beings ! Right. Islam is so clear cut - that it respectfully and specifically casts its thoughts about homosexuals and women! Please enlighten me with the direct quotations. They truly are inspiring. From Mobile prisons ( Niqab) to the widespread genital mutilation of Muslim girls in present day Europe, I have witnessed more Islam that I care to in a lifetime.

You're right. I want nothing to do with Islam , or this sick God of the Desert .

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=75956

So you are only ok with Islamic 'human rights' when it suits you?

Do you just post for the sake of posting? Congratulations for naming the regime inside the country of Iran. You look extra powerful. Do you not have 4 bars on those big broad shoulders?

Regardless, your question is out too lunch - apples and oranges - however you want to put it. I believe in justice for the victims and their families - not the asshole who committed the crimes. Sadly, left ideologues like yourself end up fighting on the opposite side of the fence. Also, I predict that you dropped out of high school. Do you comprehend the English language? I hope you understand that the second quote above - was all sarcastic. Islamic human rights when it suits me? What does this topic have to do with Islam? I am the first to discredit Islam and religion in another thread and now all of a sudden my views on justice are null and void? Now that we're on the topic, I noticed you did not respond to it? Too much reality for you? Nothing to say when reality hits your square in the face? Can always count on the troll-viators to pick out a spelling errors or distort opinions. Get over yourself.

[Beefitarian]

Anyone know what's going on with this? Have the police gathered any evidence do they have any suspects?

[Dash-Ate]

I punched US murder rate into google and this came up

Is the death penalty helping ? I doubt it. USA is way up there with many bad countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... icide_rate

Gotta love the USA bible thumpers...Thou shalt not kill...except when you feel like it and for revenge Radical Christanity is a very violent sect.

[grimey]

And Saudi Arabia is way down there with many good countries. I think the only thing you can say about the death penalty based on that map when correlated with the one below is that it's obviously not a panacea.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ld_Map.png

Personally, I'm in favor of it, but only in very limited circumstances, where the person is a repeat or serial murderer, and we know beyond any doubt (or some standard tougher than the current reasonable doubt) that they committed the crime. Guys like Bernardo, where they're basically on tape doing it, or might as well be. Unfortunately, in US states where the death penalty is subject to discretion, it's highly racially or class biased. I'm not against killing poor black serial killers, say, but we should be killing people because they're serial killers, not because they're poor or black. The rich white guys should get it too, and currently, they usually don't.

[Dash-Ate]

Problem is, any time the State has the right to kill its own citizens this right will be abused. It's just human nature. Who here would take these three teens and make up nooses and hang them in your backyard your self (have your kids watch for some real world lessons)??

No? Okk then have some anonymous State killer (errr executioner) do it in a closed room in the back somewhere.

[Beefitarian]

My problem with the death penalty is I believe the courts are broken. I'm not confident that they are capable of administering it to ensure they don't get the wrong person some times. Just as they can't convict some times, it does not matter what happened to the courts, only what you can or can't prove.

The most obvious defense for it is, it eliminates second offenses.

You can't know if it is a deterrent unless you stop it and watch the murder rate go up. I doubt there is a lot of people committing crimes that consider they will be caught. If you don't think you will be caught the penalty is not a factor in the decision to commit said crime.

[Nark]

I'd hang these assholes in my backyard. But you should have expected that from me.

Beef,
Our system allows for the process, players and verdict be examined for many years after the fact. There are multiple levels of appellate courts.
Also most murders occur with the assailant and victim known to each other. So one can argue passion as a motivator, thus the consciquence is not a forethought.

[JakeYYZ]

To add to what Nark has said, convicts on death row have some of the best legal minds in America working pro bono on their behalf.