French On The Radio

[sstocker31]

Don't get me going on this issue....I hate flying flying around listening to them blabber on in french, with no clue as to where they are and what they're saying. I Flew a 737 once into three rivers with a bunch of small planes in the circuit, and had no clue where they were, or what they were saying....thank god for TCAS.
Someday there will be a major accident due to this....

[akoch]

Then what about 95% of the rest world that realistically does not speak English and does not understand what the English native speakers are saying?

This is more about us who can speak English trying to enforce it on everyone else. What would we say when Chinese come to us requesting to learn communicate in Chinese or remain on the ground?

Or would you rather not go anywhere outside of North America?

[frac]

Which brings me to realize I could fly in these countries without a word of Spanish. English is the international language of aviation. Except in Quebec. Weird. Just felt like a fish out of water. Is all.

Listening to MMMX Approach on Live ATC, I hardly hear any English on the frequency at this time. Sure, they will switch for english speaking pilots but most of the radio chat is in Spanish.

Mexico City International Approach Frequency Archive

Regards,

Marc-Olivier

[Beefitarian]

What would we say when Chinese come to us requesting to learn communicate in Chinese or remain on the ground?

Shouldn't be too much longer now until that happens.

[bmc]

French and Swiss airspace allows English and French up to 24,000 feet.

[cyeg66]

Don't get me going on this issue....I hate flying flying around listening to them blabber on in french, with no clue as to where they are and what they're saying. I Flew a 737 once into three rivers with a bunch of small planes in the circuit, and had no clue where they were, or what they were saying....thank god for TCAS.
Someday there will be a major accident due to this....

And the first successful salvo is launched.... Midairs will always happen, regardless of language(s) spoken, regardless of latest "super whiz bang techno gadgetry" in the cockpit. Though I hate to break it to you, your chances are almost as good to win the lottery. In the meantime, look out the window, do your position reports, pucker up, and fly. Entretemps, continuez la bonne discussion.

[Go Juice]

Sstocker: i know that in three rivers there is an approoved unicome that are very capable of passing traffic to you. I also know that they come in after hours to help you guys when you come in so i'm sure it wasn't that bad.

[ahramin]

French and Swiss airspace allows English and French up to 24,000 feet.

Lol, where does the altitude restriction come from? I hear French at FL410 all the time.

[Doc]

French and Swiss airspace allows English and French up to 24,000 feet.

Lol, where does the altitude restriction come from? I hear French at FL410 all the time.

I'm pretty sure there's some sort of membrane at FL240 that filters out other languages?

[Caracrane]

any prob. in CYQB ? THE Answer is NO. The only problems are the fu... rednecks.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

any prob. in CYQB ? THE Answer is NO. The only problems are the fu... rednecks.

Finally this topic attracted some emotion.

[Doc]

any prob. in CYQB ? THE Answer is NO. The only problems are the fu... rednecks.

So, Anglophone = Redneck?

Funny how a "redneck" didn't throw the first stone....interesting.

[sstocker31]

Well Geepers guys.....someone had to get them all riled up.
Man....my neck sure is sunburned......

[bmc]

French and Swiss airspace allows English and French up to 24,000 feet.

Lol, where does the altitude restriction come from?

Skyguide, the ATC unit based in Switzerland that controls part of Franceand all of Switzerland.

There are no problems for Brits flying in French airspace where English and French are both used. I guess it's more difficult for Canadian pilots.

[ahramin]

The only rednecks I've ever met at YQB are from Lac St Jean. Those boys give Albertans a run for their money.

[1201checkin]

Well this for me is a touchy subject. I fly into the country Quebec for the Quebecers and Canada for the Canadians very often. This should not be allowed as this jeopardizes safety. Having people talk in French on the radio while you don’t understand what is going on limits your awareness of other aircraft. Also look at which province in Canada has the most ATC Violations each year!!! WOW shocker Quebec. I wonder why!!

I get it your from Quebec (also Canada by the way), I get it you want to speak French great, all for it just not on the Radio when you can speak English. Also I have seen someone trying to land at Toronto Buttenville he was speaking French the controller kicked him out of the control zone, only 2 min later, what do you know English started coming out, like what’s the point of that like really come on. Take my hat off to the controller though. There is A time and a place for everything when safety becomes jeopardized when flying its not a time to prove points or carry your pride.

In the past I have flown in some uncontrolled airports in Quebec. Well how safe is that when Radio is saying instructions to other aircraft in the area in French. I have had Captains Stop on taxi ways and say there not moving in till he is aware of traffic in the area. Now your thinking like a small Cessna 310 or small light turbo prop but know i am talking about B727 and B737, and A320 doing this. Now some of you may read this post and not agree or think I have a bone to pick with Quebecers but I actually don’t I lived in Quebec for a while people are great just have a problem when we strive to increase safety constantly in the aviation industry and we have some Ashole trying to prove a point while jeopardizing safety.

What are your thoughts ?? Am I way out to lunch on this one ??

[kamikaze]

You are.

Controllers tend to be bi-lingual ... pilots less so.

A french speaking pilot in YRB's airspace will speak FRENCH with ATC ... it's within the rules, and a perfectly reasonable expectation. The same happens all around the world with whatever local language.

"Having people talk in French on the radio while you don’t understand what is going on limits your awareness of other aircraft."

Sure, same goes of any foreing pilot at any foreing airport when the pilot's mother tongue isn't used for ATC.

You've just argued that the whole world should speak YOUR language because your inability to speak the local language used by the majority puts YOU, the minority, at risk!

FFS ...

[1201checkin]

Right
but I am not in a foreing pilot in a foreing Country I am in Canada Born and raised. Ok I get it when i am in Quebec I will have the mind set as i am in a Foreing country. Ok problem solved I should have thought of that before. Thanks

As for me argueing that the whole world should speak English pretty sure the issue was in French being spoken on the radio not only in Quebec but in canada as a whole. (Quebec is in Canada) . Just saying it would be safer if everyone spoke english in CANADA. I say again IN CANADA. Inless people only know french which I highly dout it. Lot of people pretend though that they only know french. they should try that flying into cuba and mexico.

[cyeg66]

The only rednecks I've ever met at YQB are from Lac St Jean. Those boys give Albertans a run for their money.

Yeah, but are their trucks as jacked-up as our rig rockets? That's the true measure of a man, and not whether he can afford it or not... Besides, with where this discussion is headed, (boyz with very sloped foreheads blew the dust off their keyboards...), it's time to lock it up, methinks.

Edit: Besides, the only definition of "Foreing" I've ever known is the one I observe from the tee off box playing golf with my coworkers.

[jeff_w_yeg]

I don't see how any Canadian could have trouble understanding an Indian accent.

Try calling customer service for Bell...you'll quickly find out how.

[TopperHarley]

I would rather have these pilots talk in their first language on the radio and have ATC as a mediator, than have them speak in broken english where Im left wondering what they're saying. I expect ATC in the YUL area to be able to communicate well in both french/english. Its not the same case with pilots always, as for some of them french is their first language. Anytime Im flying through their airspace and someone is speaking in french, if there is going to be a conflict, ATC has always been there to advise. Its never been a problem. Same thing when Im flying through France. Forcing these pilots to speak English could create more problems than it would solve. If you think there might be a conflict and are not comfortable with it, let ATC know and they'll give you the translation.

Canada has 2 official languages after all. Id be willing to bet that far more Quebecers know english than non-quebecers know French.

[KK7]

Right
but I am not in a foreing pilot in a foreing Country I am in Canada Born and raised. Ok I get it when i am in Quebec I will have the mind set as i am in a Foreing country. Ok problem solved I should have thought of that before. Thanks

As for me argueing that the whole world should speak English pretty sure the issue was in French being spoken on the radio not only in Quebec but in canada as a whole. (Quebec is in Canada) . Just saying it would be safer if everyone spoke english in CANADA. I say again IN CANADA. Inless people only know french which I highly dout it. Lot of people pretend though that they only know french. they should try that flying into cuba and mexico.

1201checkin, although you claim to be a Canadian, it sounds like you don't know much about our country. Canada is a bilingual country where both French and English are the official languages. As you seem to have noticed, some regions are more French and others are more English. That means that although some people are fortunate enough to know how to use both languages, a significant number of people are unilingual in either one language or the other. You don't need to go to a foreign land to find these differences, they exist right here in Canada!

Aviation is filled with risk. The moment you arrive at the airport there is an element of risk. But our job as flight crew is to mitigate that risk as much as possible to make it safe for us and the people around. In an ideal world, yes if everyone spoke English we can all communicate a whole lot better. You could also design a billion dollar C172 that will not fail and not allow the pilot to make mistakes. But is it practical? No. There is a limit to risk mitigation, which is the point where we have to accept a certain level of risk in what we do that we cannot practically eliminate. If you think you can rid yourself of all risk, then you have to become a bubble boy and never leave your domicile.

Notice that in all English regions of Canada, where most people speak English, ATC is performed using the English language. Notice that in the primary French region of Canada, where most people speak French, ATC is performed using the French language, but also accommodates English for those flying into this region from other places that do not speak French. This is not only done in Canada, but all around the world. It's an internationally accepted method of communicating with air traffic controllers. The reason for this is simple: so that better communication can be achieved through the use of people's native languages. This in itself is a form of risk mitigation.

You claim that Quebec has the highest number of ATC violations, and I think you should qualify that with some hard data. According the TSB statistics from 2001 to 2010, Ontario has the highest number of accidents and Quebec is number two (which is expected given they are the two most populated provinces in Canada), and Quebec is third to Ontario and British Columbia with respect to reportable incidents. Granted neither of these tell you the number of specific ATC violations, but their safety statistics seem to be in line with the rest of the country.

[Doc]

Id be willing to bet that far more Quebecers know english than non-quebecers know French.

Now there's a high risk bet. Like betting the Leafs will miss the playoffs again! LOL! DUH!
Keep in mind, there are a lot more non-Quebecers than there are Quebecers. Toronto is the second largest Italian in the world! Second only to Rome. A large contingent of Asian speaking folks in BC. Bunch of Ukrainians in Winnipeg, Finns in Thunder Bay and Germans in Kitchener. I have NO idea what language they speak in Newfoundland? The corresponding ATS units stick (for the most part) with English. There is NO doubt that ONE language spoken by all pilots and ATS in a certain area is SAFER. It very obviously adds to situational awareness. Can't but help to. The trick here, is tolerance. If someone (anyone) pretends not to speak your language, just to get a point across, it's just rude. I'd like to think that a pilot of an aircraft that is a conflict to mine, would have the common sense to communicate to me in a language I can understand?

[Inverted2]

So, Anglophone = Redneck?

Francophone = Crybaby?

[TopperHarley]

If someone (anyone) pretends not to speak your language, just to get a point across, it's just rude. I'd like to think that a pilot of an aircraft that is a conflict to mine, would have the common sense to communicate to me in a language I can understand?

Id agree with this. But the point I was trying to make is that I dont think safety would necessarily be increased (or risk minimized, however you want to look at it) if all french people were forced to speak english on the radio. Since its not their first language, there could be problems with them understanding clearances or trying to resolve a conflict in their non-native tongue. In an IFR environment, ATC in the YUL area can speak perfectly (for the most part) in both official languages. Personally, Im ok and comfortable with these pilots speaking french with ATC, and having ATC pass the info to me in english. Its never been a problem for me. Flying into Paris, a far busier airport than YUL, theres sometimes more french than english and there never seems to be a problem.

Now, if I was a non-french speaking pilot flying into an uncontrolled airport in Quebec, I would certainly expect people to respect the fact that I dont speak french and that they would need to be able to communicate with me in english for safety reasons.