Voyageur Airways

SplitS · Post by **SplitS** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:18 am

Any one know about Voyageur Airways? For example work conditions/locations/hours per year/pay etc...

Need to know ASAP..

Please PM if you dont want to publicly post..

thanks!

It's the Pitts · Post by **It's the Pitts** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:25 am

Isn't that when you put a camera under a toilet seat a take pictures?

corn-shoot · Post by **corn-shoot** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:23 pm

Geeze, all the guy did was ask for us to do his homework for him as soon as possible...

Well done Pitts

HoCapt · Post by **HoCapt** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:50 pm

Don't worry split, I know the answer;

1) Work conditions are amazing!
2) Locations are even better!
3) Hours per year are through the f**king roof!
4) Pay, don't even get me started. Pure bliss!

I should know, I dreamt about it all last night!

SplitS · Post by **SplitS** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 5:37 pm

You guys are hilarious...Really.
Imagine my blazen arrogance asking a question in a forum?
I mean, to think, I would ask other pilots about a company they may work for in order to know more about it...What was I thinking?

FA28 guy · Post by **FA28 guy** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:08 pm

THe pay as a co-pilot is poor as a captain not bad. They are now asking for a training bond fo rthe first year. So if you get on I hope your credit is good. The business is professional.

neiva · Post by **neiva** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:55 pm

FA 28:
When you say that the co pilot pay is poor is because the trainning bond ?
Can you share some info about it ?
please PM me
Thank you

Benwa · Post by **Benwa** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:43 am

Are we up to a point where pilots don't even have the nervs to ask a potential employer what the pay scale is ? I just don't get it.

SplitS · Post by **SplitS** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:08 am

benwa,

Knowing the pay scale before speaking to a potential employer only works in your favour. Atleast you know the margins within which you can negotiate. Asking an employer point blank doesnt give you time to prepare what you may want to negotiate. Assuming of course you can negotiate (even if only a little).

Thanks to all who are helping me out with your PMs and posts!

Kosiw · Post by **Kosiw** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:20 am

There is no such thing as "negotiating" anything in aviation these days, the company's out there hold all the cards, whether it comes to only hiring PPc'd pilots or demanding training bonds.

Guido · Post by **Guido** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:24 am

This ray of sunshine brought to you by Kosiw... Kosiw, where positive attitudes mean absolutely nothing!

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:05 am

Kosiw has a point Guido.

Would you hire a n00b pilot who wants his foot in the door who says.. "no, I think you'll pay me 11cents a mile instead of 10.."

The fact he's even negotiating is sickening, when you have pilots that would sell their soul and probably fly for 9cents..

Next we'll have people CVing, "will work for free" then SplitS won't need to negotiate since it'll be "work for free chump or sod off."

Stop NEGOTIATING!

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:57 am

You know what, I agree that the situation is somewhat bleak, but to see that some of you guys have already rolled over and decided that to even bother negotiating is "sickening" is unebelievable. Take a little pride kids!!!! There is nothing wrong with negotiating, and while you are right that most employers hold the cards, and most will not budge on their initial salary offer, sometimes with some employers they actually see value in you and want you as an employee even if they have to pay another couple grand a year. Not because of a PPC or whatever, but because of the interview process and good references....and they may negotiate. Can't hurt to try!!! They may say no right off the bat, but at least you tried and showed a little pride and ambition. I realise that for entry level jobs, negotiating really isn't feasible. But for anything after that, you won't get anything if you don't ask. I was lucky to have successfully negotiated a modest increase in my starting pay at my current job, so don't tell me it's sickening. That is just rolling over and dying. As soon as you start with that attitude it gives the employers that much more power.

SplitS · Post by **SplitS** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:07 am

Well said wallypilot.

How can negotiating a better salary for yourself be "sickening" just because some folks work for less? Should I fly for 9 cents a mile because someone with cyyz's attitude will do it? No. And guess what? Ive made nothing but good coin this way.

And how would negotiating your salary cause others to work for free??What kind of logic is that???

Right Seat Captain · Post by **Right Seat Captain** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:16 am

It can sometimes be in the employers best interest not to disclose pay scales. Instead they negotiate a pay based on you mking the first offer. If you offer lower than they had expected you to pay, they accept and get a deal out of it. If you ask for more than they offer, they'll say too bad, this is what we'll give you instead.

If you're a person they like, and have skills that you can offer them, there is always room for negotiation. It's all in the way you market yourself to the employer. The trick is to be capable of giving them more than what they can get out of others. This way they don't only think in terms of dollar signs, but how their company can improve and become more profitable. This works very well with instructing, since you're dealing with the public. If a charter company or something of the like, bring high morale and show you already know lots about the company, which is what SplitS is doing. Someone told him he's getting his homework done by others on here, where he is actually doing his own homework here. What better source of information about the company than to get it from current or past employees. That way he walks in the door with complete knowledge without bugging the higher ups. That impresses them.

I have a feeling that those who have criticized have had more trouble finding a job as opposed to those who haven't...

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:30 am

SplitS wrote:Well said wallypilot.

How can negotiating a better salary for yourself be "sickening" just because some folks work for less? Should I fly for 9 cents a mile because someone with cyyz's attitude will do it? No. And guess what?.

Like losing your job at Air Canada? Keep up the good work with the demands.

Ive made nothing but good coin this way

Good. Lets keep negotiating. If someone is willing to get a free PPC for his employer or work for free to take your job, just so he can build time. Don't come here and cry about it.

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:44 am

I don't work for AC, and I don't make a huge salary. I work for a very reputable small operator out west making a respectable salary. they respect me and my skill set and I respect them for providing a good work environment.

I don't see how a bit of negotiating contributes to people working for free. I just don't see the connection to people paying for PPC's etc. Enlighten me toronto guy.

Gards · Post by **Gards** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:09 am

I agree with you Right Seat Captain. I think that the guys knocking this have had a tough time finding jobs. Like I said before, if your not willing to make things better for yourself or our profession as pilots, than go volunteer at the museum or go work at Burger King for what THEY offer you

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/burgerking.php

Things wont get better until all of us pilots stand up and negotiate as a whole.

If negotiating is "sickening" then go work at Burger King please, cause that attitude you have is what is really sickening! I know I speak for a lot of fellow aviators, WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING AT THIS and the only way to make things better is to ask for them!!

SplitS · Post by **SplitS** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:29 am

Right Seat Captain has it figured out.
Reread his post cyyz. Learn.

And I still cant figure out how you connect negotiating a salary with working for free or paying for your PPC... Wouldnt you want to earn as much as the company is willing to pay you?? Wouldnt it just piss you off if you were asked in an interview "So what salary do you expect?" And you say 20 000G when they were ready to pay you 25 000g but you didnt know it?

Seems straight forward to Right Seat Captain, Wallypilot, gards and myself...

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:30 am

That's funny pitts

Voyeur Airways? Isn't that the company who got in humongous kaka for photographing the king of pedo...I mean the king of pop while on a flight?

cj

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:39 am

Gards wrote: WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING AT THIS and the only way to make things better is to ask for them!!

How will you make a living when a 250hr CPL pilot negotiates to work for free??

You'll be the one working at Burger King.

But yes, as Right Seat Cpt. commented if the position has posted, "negotiable" it's obviously negotiable since pay is commensurate with experience.

SplitS · Post by **SplitS** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:55 am

cyyz,

Thats not negotiating - thats prostitution.

Im talking about negotiating the max salary possible commensurate with experience.

We all like money right?

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:04 pm

SplitS wrote:cyyz,

Thats not negotiating - thats prostitution.

Im talking about negotiating the max salary possible commensurate with experience.

We all like money right?

I just assumed you were a n00b CPLer. But after your posts, I'm gonna have to guess my assumption was wrong.

Yes, more money is alway good. Getting paid below what you could have been making wouldn't be good.

Sorry for blowing it out of proportion.

SplitS · Post by **SplitS** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:25 pm

No worries Cyyz... Couldnt understand were you were coming from there... but if you thought I was a ready to work for nothing nOOb CPLer now it all makes sense... Im just a ATPLer with a few thousand hours of trying to figure it all out while enjoying the scenery...

I share your opinion of guys who'd work for free too...

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:57 pm

Okay....cyyz: I think we are debating different angles of the same issue. Negotiating is just that. If the employer is offering you a job at a certain salary, and you ask for more and said employer says no, all that means is that you work for slightly less pay. You ask, and maybe they say yes, maybe they say no. It doesn't mean that the job goes to a volunteer.

And I also can't conceive of someone negotiating to work for free. One would negotiate UP...ie....there is no position available, but if they work for free they can sit right seat in a what is normally a single pilot operation. I highly doubt that someone would walk up to an employer offering a paid position and negotiate DOWN, by saying, "I will do it for free if you give me the job". Even the employer would look at you funny. Nobody really wants that. Those that do it, do so because they feel that is a way for them to get ahead (ie cheat) without doing what the rest of us do and go to Fort. nowhere for a couple of years. (not that i condone the practice by any means) I know of one place out on the west that has co-joes that work for free. Are there others?

Put me in my place if I am wrong.

Voyageur Airways

Voyageur Airways

Settling for what they want...

Re: Settling for what they want...