PA28-235 check out, any one?

[flyingdiaper]

I need to get checked out for PA28-235 Cherokee,
I am instructor and I will be teaching on this specific type for this private owner
but I've never flown on this type and for insurance purpose I need a check out.
I was wondering if anyone can check me out on this type around ZBB or I can even travel a distance.

Thanks

[moocow]

Does it have to be a -235? CFC got a fleet of 140.

[flyingdiaper]

Yeah, it has to be this specific type -235...
Ive flown -140 -161 but seems that doesn't count.

[Shiny Side Up]

Can we assume that you need to find one to do a check out on? Otherwise if you can do the check out on the owner's aircraft it probably wouldn't be hard to find someone suitably qualified to make the insurance people happy.

[flyingdiaper]

I need some one with his or her PA28-235 who can do the checkout for me.
I don't see much PA28-235 around here so it's pretty hard to find anyone who can do that...

[Shiny Side Up]

Who is flying this student's aircraft right now?

[Big Pistons Forever]

Pa 235's are not very common and virtually never used commercially, so I think you will find it difficult to find someone with credentials acceptable to the insurance company and with time on type. Even if you do find that person it is not reasonable for you to expect them to do a checkout on their airplane. If the owner of a non common type wants instruction than I would suggest it is his responsibility to provide his airplane for any necessary type training for you.

But at the risk of being rude what competencies do you bring to the job that makes you qualified to do the training even if you do get a checkout ? To do justice to the owner of the aircraft I would suggest you should have at lest some experience operating 6 cylinder Lycomings and the 4 tank fuel system in the Pa 28-235. Pa 28 -140 experience does not IMO automatically make you qualified to do type training on a 235.

As for the insurance requirements well, I do not see why a pilot with experience on the far more numerous Cherokee Six which has the same engine, fuel system and systems would not be acceptable, and a lot easier to find. I know the CFI at the Victoria Flying Club has Cherokee six time.

[Shiny Side Up]

But at the risk of being rude what competencies do you bring to the job that makes you qualified to do the training even if you do get a checkout ? To do justice to the owner of the aircraft I would suggest you should have at lest some experience operating 6 cylinder Lycomings and the 4 tank fuel system in the Pa 28-235. Pa 28 -140 experience does not IMO automatically make you qualified to do type training on a 235.

While no it doesn't, we're also not talking about doing training on a high performance type either, at its heart its still a cherokee. You don't need several hundred hours of flying the thing to figure it out, unlike what some out there would have you believe. Theoretically, one is supposed to come out of CPL training with the ability to easily adapt to any aircraft, but in truth I don't see a lot of that these days.

Personally if the owner wants you to get training to fly his machine then he can foot the bill for it. Please tell us you weren't going to get "rated" on a Pa-28-235 at your own expense? Have you had contact with the insurance company? Sometimes this can help if you do have sufficient qualifications. I had an owner once make a similar request, and while I didn't have time on that specific model they deemed that I had enough experience to train someone on his own airplane anyways. That being siad though I had another owner with a similar request very adamant that his 172S was a vastly different machine than all the other models, that he needed someone specifically with 172S time, and lots of it, to train him to fly his own airplane.

Either way, I do know a few 235 owners who operate out of High River, Alberta, though you'd have to contact someone there with more familiarity - I'd suggest their local EAA group - to see if they'd be obliging.

[flyingdiaper]

Shiny Side Up:
No body, he bought this 235 recently and kept in his hangar,,,
And as I was writing the reply, I've noticed your new posting.
Thanks for letting me know your experience!
Both you and Big Pistons Forever opinions make sense to me.
Yes, it's still Cherokee, Yes bigger power, prop control, 4tanks.
And no, I wouldn't pay for my checkout,,,,

Big Pistons Forever:
As for the experience, I do have the bigger powerful complex piston experiences so not very worried about it,
it's pretty reasonable to have concerns you've brought up so not rude at all.
Good point, If insurance company does accept Cherokee Six time, I can do something with that.
Thanks for the advise!

[straightpilot]

I'm still struggling with "Cherokee" and "checkout" being in the same sentence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-2 ... evelopment

Karl Bergey, Fred Weick and John Thorp designed the Cherokee

You may recall that Fred Weick pioneered the tricycle landing gear
and designed the foolproof Ercoupe, amongst many other innovations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Weick

Anyways, Piper intended the Cherokee to be extremely easy to fly, and
I think it's fair to say that they succeeded. Review the fuel system and
off you go.

EDIT: just talked to a Piper PA-28-236 "Dakota" owner/pilot. Same as 235
except taper wings. He said it was gentle and easy to fly.

[moocow]

I'm still struggling with "Cherokee" and "checkout" being in the same sentence.

Simple. Underwriters aren't pilots, even if they are specialised. I think you could approach them in terms of machine similarity to see if they will drop the type specific requirement.

[iflyforpie]

The fuel system can be a doozy on these ones, since you have to keep track of what you burned out of what tank plus leave enough in the mains for landing.

Also, on lots of these the stop for the fuel selector is weak, so it is easy to select 'off' instead of 'left aux'. I can't remember exactly, but I believe it takes several minutes for the engine to starve when in the selector is in the 'off' position.

Other than that it is just a Cherokee with power. No cowl flaps and you can leave the throttle wide open for climb.

[Shiny Side Up]

Simple. Underwriters aren't pilots, even if they are specialised.

And sometimes its not the insurance people but the aircraft owners themselves who are convinced that they fly some sort of unique snowflake, and very willingly swallow any line the insurance people feed them, or any other source of BS, the intardnet being a popular source.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Also, on lots of these the stop for the fuel selector is weak, so it is easy to select 'off' instead of 'left aux'. I can't remember exactly, but I believe it takes several minutes for the engine to starve when in the selector is in the 'off' position.
.

Ideally when getting checkout in any new aircraft type it would be nice to get more than the "houses get bigger, the houses get smaller" basic level of instruction. IFP's little nugget about the potential trap in the fuel selector is an example of the operational knowledge that someone with experience on the same or very similar type (A cherokee Six in this instance) can provide. Other examples include what works best for hot/cold starts, what are the real world optimal power settings, what loading strategy works best, what always/never breaks etc etc. IMO there are enough differences between a Pa 28-140 and a Pa 28-235 that I don't see how anybody with only Pa 28- 140 experience, could do full justice to a checkout. That doesn't mean that an instructor with only Pa 28-140 time would be a "bad" choice for the checkout, only that I think you may get a "better" checkout from someone who has actual type experience.