AME Freelance rates

[qa guy]

Just wondering what guys are charging these days for freelance work? I dont mean contracting for a company.
I'm talking about annual inspections on privately owned single engine piston a/c being done in owners hangar or tie downs.
Work being performed in or around Toronto. Looking for the hourly rate people charge, I dont want to get into how long the inspection should take and all that jazz.
Any positive feedback is appreciated.

[SeptRepair]

Depends. Are you a 20 something with a fresh license thinking he knows everything and demands top dollar or are you a guy with 25 years experience with the majority of it on general aviation aircraft? If your the later then anything less then 50/hr is an insult to your abilities. Just my opinion.

[qa guy]

In the middle.... thirty something, over 10 yrs experience. all of it on these aircraft types. Thats the exact number I was thinking would be reasonable.

[iflyforpie]

I did it at $45 many years ago when shop rates were $65, and I won't bother doing it again. Not worth the hassle IMHO. Anything under that I think is too low... shop rates should be around the $100 mark by now.

[YYZSaabGuy]

For what it's worth, I just paid a local plumbing firm an hourly rate of $88 to do some work on my house, none of which had the safety risk or liability implicit in the work an AME (freelance or otherwise) undertakes.

Don't sell yourself (or your skills) short.

[Colonel Sanders]

IMHO: a middle-of-the-road professional (not a newbie,
and not an expert type guru, but someone with around
8 to 10 years experience) ought to charge around
$500/day for his TIME and expertise and signing authority.

That does NOT include space in a heated/lighted/secure
hangar, nor does it include any parts, supplies, consumables,
etc. Those are all extra and above the $500/day. It
does not include any terribly specialized tools (eg AMO eqpt).

So for a theoretical annual inspection on a simple light
single which is not a mess, that ought to take around 2
days, and the AME should walk away with $1000 in his
back pocket. IMHO.

If you theoretically did that every day for 50 weeks
a year, that would work out to $125k/yr which is ok
but not eye-opening for self-employed contract rate.

Using the rough rule of thumb that contract goes for
twice salary, that would compare to an approximate
salary of slightly over $60k/yr.

[photofly]

Shops charge around $85-$100 per hour. Your customer is going to expect to pay less than that, that otherwise he might as well have the work done in a heated hangar.

[azimuthaviation]

IMHO: a middle-of-the-road professional (not a newbie,and not an expert type guru, but someone with around 8 to 10 years experience) ought to charge around $500/day for his TIME and expertise and signing authority.

No AME in Canada gets that rate. A shop rate for an 8 hour day is a little closer to that number. The AME`cut however will be 20-25 an hour out of that. For an AME to freelance he would want to get that same 20-25, plus the incedentals that taking such a job would cost him, plus maybe he might want to make a little more than his usual rate for giving up a weekend. Factor in the fact that its cash and work out a number based on that.

Then ask yourself if he will be able to do as good of a job without shop facilities like battery tester, bead blaster, jacks if necessary etc and see if its worth the savings.

[Pat Richard]

No AME in Canada gets that rate. A shop rate for an 8 hour day is a little closer to that number. The AME`cut however will be 20-25 an hour out of that. For an AME to freelance he would want to get that same 20-25, plus the incedentals that taking such a job would cost him, plus maybe he might want to make a little more than his usual rate for giving up a weekend. Factor in the fact that its cash and work out a number based on that.

Looky what a automotive journeyman is getting in the patch for a comparison before begging for 20-25 a/hr.
http://www.fortmcmurrayonline.com/jobs/ ... c.job.aspx
I'd like to know if anybody in the arctic is even making that much plus the benefits being offered, and this a payroll position, not contract. Does look like a rotating day/night shift though, and that sucks, but I don't know any AME making almost $50 a/hr on grave yards.
Personally, an experienced ame working for 20-25 a/hr is disgusting and pathetic, regardless of how big a boner one gets touching airplanes with tools. $45 plus expenses an hour is reasonable if you're a good mech, and it should go up from there if you're signing shit out.

[angry inch]

I'm a bush pilot & have been supplementing my income with carpentry work when I'm in between flying gigs. Although I have a fair bit of "on the job experience", I have no formal training & only need show up to work with a tool belt & a few extra tools & I get paid $25 an hour with very little responsibility. I think you should be charging at least $50 an hour, and 500 a day is not unreasonable. Just my opinion...

[Colonel Sanders]

No AME in Canada gets that rate

The ones that work for me do

[azimuthaviation]

I guess thats why biannual recerts cost you $2000.

[ybp]

I started freelancing about 5 yrs ago with about 5 yrs experience. AMO's were charging $75-90/hr and I charged $35. It wasn't long before veryone and his dog wanted me to work on his plane so I upped my rate to $55/hr. I am now work 8 on 6 off at my current job and I could work all those days off freelancing.

Most of my work is recommended from the other AMO's when they are too busy, guys that don't get along with the AMO's or guys that don't like to PAY AMO's. I however, have no overhead so I could care less if it takes a guy a month to pay me, but I have never waited that long for payment. Hangarage is always supplied or found by aircraaft ownner unless I opt to work outside in which case I usually bill extra and I tell them that.

I like the variety of the work and the people that I deal with. Plus there are a few perks like free hunting trips etc!!!

[Bobby868]

First let me say every freelance AME I know is a great guy and I’d drink beer with them any day.

That said I’ve had nothing but frustration when hiring freelance AMEs to work on my private airplane and I now always go to a good AMO.

Most of the frustration revolves around simply being unprepared to do the job.

First just because you’re retired or on your own loose schedule doesn’t me that I am. If you say you’re going to start working on my plane at 8am, I’m going to be there at 7:30 to prep for your arrival and I’m going to expect you to show up at 7:50 like you would for any other job so your tools are out and ready to go by 8:00. Showing up at 8:30, 9:00, 9:30 with some story about traffic or being caught up with another job is lame, I expect this from an 18 year old apprentice not someone who profess to be a mature professional.

Second come with all your tools, not just the ones you think you’re going to need. Nothing winds me up more than to be part way into a job and the mechanic says oh I didn’t realize I needed this specialty tool it’s back at home. Remember the boy scout motto, be prepared.

Third on the note above, have a good supply of hardware, screws, nuts, bolts etc and make sure they are organized. Almost every time I’ve hired a freelance AME we’ve been stopped in our tracks because he didn’t have a 10 cent bolt. And for god’s sake have them in a proper organizer, nothing gets me going when a supposed professional pulls out a couple of coffee cans filled with mixed bolts, nuts screws dumps them out and spends 20 minutes looking for a piece of hardware.

Fourth following again from above. Stop trying to save me money! Seriously! That 20-30 minutes you spent looking for a dollars worth of used hardware cost me $30 dollars in labour! You didn’t save me a dime you cost me $29.00 and wasted 30 minutes of my day.

Fifth it’s all I can do not to kick a freelance AME in the nuts when he tells me it’s ok that he takes twice as long to get a job done because he charges half the price of an AMO. It’s not ok! I’m paying you to work on my plane in a steady, uninterrupted fashion. Not to BS with every hangar rat that comes around with a coffee and a great “remember the good old days story.” If you want to be my buddy and everyone else’s buddy on the field great, lets BS all you want and I’ll keep my cash in pocket. At the end of the day I’ll buy you a case of beer for your time and we’ll call it even because that’s what buddies do. If you want to get paid cash for your time then you’re here to work so politely let everyone that comes up to talk that you’re on the clock and then get back to the task at hand. This goes for answering your cell phone as well.

Sixth just because you have 5, 10, 15, 50 years of experience working for airline A, B or C doesn’t mean you know jack about GA. Just because you spent your career servicing 172s for a flight school doesn’t mean you know anything about my Mooney. So before you come out to work on my plane make sure you’ve done your research. Know what engine, prop I have. Know what ADs are applicable. Don’t pull the jug off my engine and then ask me what the torque values are to put it back on. Don’t tell me how you had a manual last year but can’t seem to find it now, why on earh didn’t you double check before we both wasted our time coming out to the airport. Don’t use the excuse, “oh I never worked on a Mooney, 185, Bonanza etc before so I’ll have to call someone and find out.” For gods sake you knew this before you came.

In short if you’re going to freelance take it as seriously. I’d recommend getting a big cube van and setting it up like a mobile shop. Have all your tools in it and organized, have a generator and a good compressor, have your shop manuals, have a full selection of standard hardware and make sure it’s well organized. Have tarps etc to cover stuff up if it rains or dusts blows, have ladders and stools to reach high places. Have a way to collect and dispose of used oil. Have a small desk in there with a laptop, printer and a wireless internet connection.

Just my 2cents from a frustrated Mooney owner. Now I pay the extra $20 - $40 dollars an hour to a well organized well equipped AMO and in the long run my bill isn’t anymore but my frustrations are a lot less.

[Pat Richard]

First let me say every freelance AME I know is a great guy and I’d drink beer with them any day.

That said I’ve had nothing but frustration when hiring freelance AMEs to work on my private airplane and I now always go to a good AMO.

Most of the frustration revolves around simply being unprepared to do the job.

First just because you’re retired or on your own loose schedule doesn’t me that I am. If you say you’re going to start working on my plane at 8am, I’m going to be there at 7:30 to prep for your arrival and I’m going to expect you to show up at 7:50 like you would for any other job so your tools are out and ready to go by 8:00. Showing up at 8:30, 9:00, 9:30 with some story about traffic or being caught up with another job is lame, I expect this from an 18 year old apprentice not someone who profess to be a mature professional.

Second come with all your tools, not just the ones you think you’re going to need. Nothing winds me up more than to be part way into a job and the mechanic says oh I didn’t realize I needed this specialty tool it’s back at home. Remember the boy scout motto, be prepared.

Third on the note above, have a good supply of hardware, screws, nuts, bolts etc and make sure they are organized. Almost every time I’ve hired a freelance AME we’ve been stopped in our tracks because he didn’t have a 10 cent bolt. And for god’s sake have them in a proper organizer, nothing gets me going when a supposed professional pulls out a couple of coffee cans filled with mixed bolts, nuts screws dumps them out and spends 20 minutes looking for a piece of hardware.

Fourth following again from above. Stop trying to save me money! Seriously! That 20-30 minutes you spent looking for a dollars worth of used hardware cost me $30 dollars in labour! You didn’t save me a dime you cost me $29.00 and wasted 30 minutes of my day.

Fifth it’s all I can do not to kick a freelance AME in the nuts when he tells me it’s ok that he takes twice as long to get a job done because he charges half the price of an AMO. It’s not ok! I’m paying you to work on my plane in a steady, uninterrupted fashion. Not to BS with every hangar rat that comes around with a coffee and a great “remember the good old days story.” If you want to be my buddy and everyone else’s buddy on the field great, lets BS all you want and I’ll keep my cash in pocket. At the end of the day I’ll buy you a case of beer for your time and we’ll call it even because that’s what buddies do. If you want to get paid cash for your time then you’re here to work so politely let everyone that comes up to talk that you’re on the clock and then get back to the task at hand. This goes for answering your cell phone as well.

Sixth just because you have 5, 10, 15, 50 years of experience working for airline A, B or C doesn’t mean you know jack about GA. Just because you spent your career servicing 172s for a flight school doesn’t mean you know anything about my Mooney. So before you come out to work on my plane make sure you’ve done your research. Know what engine, prop I have. Know what ADs are applicable. Don’t pull the jug off my engine and then ask me what the torque values are to put it back on. Don’t tell me how you had a manual last year but can’t seem to find it now, why on earh didn’t you double check before we both wasted our time coming out to the airport. Don’t use the excuse, “oh I never worked on a Mooney, 185, Bonanza etc before so I’ll have to call someone and find out.” For gods sake you knew this before you came.

In short if you’re going to freelance take it as seriously. I’d recommend getting a big cube van and setting it up like a mobile shop. Have all your tools in it and organized, have a generator and a good compressor, have your shop manuals, have a full selection of standard hardware and make sure it’s well organized. Have tarps etc to cover stuff up if it rains or dusts blows, have ladders and stools to reach high places. Have a way to collect and dispose of used oil. Have a small desk in there with a laptop, printer and a wireless internet connection.

Just my 2cents from a frustrated Mooney owner. Now I pay the extra $20 - $40 dollars an hour to a well organized well equipped AMO and in the long run my bill isn’t anymore but my frustrations are a lot less.

Excellent points, and it brings to light the fact that a good AME does not necessarily make a good businessman, but many of the points are inexcusable regardless of how good a wrench a guy is . The above quoted post should be used as reference on how to do freelancing/contracting professionally if doing GA, or any other mobile mechanical work. If the low points are addressed, your business/reputation will sell itself, and likewise the opposite.

[crazy_aviator]

In short if you’re going to freelance take it as seriously. I’d recommend getting a big cube van and setting it up like a mobile shop. Have all your tools in it and organized, have a generator and a good compressor, have your shop manuals, have a full selection of standard hardware and make sure it’s well organized. Have tarps etc to cover stuff up if it rains or dusts blows, have ladders and stools to reach high places. Have a way to collect and dispose of used oil. Have a small desk in there with a laptop, printer and a wireless internet connection.

I agree with all other points ,,however, if your going to go this far why not JUST OPEN A SHOP AND CHARGE SHOP RATES and let cheap owners like you continue with the lees than ideal mechanics out there !
Do you think all "grease monkeys" are alive just to please you ? Do you get Mr. Wrench, ex-canadian tire , to come to your DRIVEWAY in the fall to do an oil change for $12.00 ? ( Fully equipped of course)

[Bobby868]

I agree with all other points ,,however, if your going to go this far why not JUST OPEN A SHOP AND CHARGE SHOP RATES and let cheap owners like you continue with the lees than ideal mechanics out there !
Do you think all "grease monkeys" are alive just to please you ? Do you get Mr. Wrench, ex-canadian tire , to come to your DRIVEWAY in the fall to do an oil change for $12.00 ? ( Fully equipped of course)

A used cube van in reasonable shape can be had for $5000 a hangar is $100,000 to $500,000 for something small depending on the airport.

And to answer the other part of your question go back and read my post you'll find the answers in there.

[ybp]

Bobby, maybe we need to define "freelance" for you in this context!! I believe that most people who use freelancers, like myself, usually don't want to pay AMO rates or they don't get along with the AMO for one reason or another.

The reason I freelance is because I have another full time job and I am just trying to make some extra money. I am never going to buy a $100,000 hangar or a $5000 cube van or a $500 service truck for that matter. Neither will I probably ever spend $100 on hardware stock because to properly stock hardware one would probably need to spend $1000 then I would need storage for it all etc.

If I have to go to an AMO to buy a bolt, I don't usually bill my time for that. If a fellow pilot or AME showes up and we BS, I cut the bill. But when I have to send out the ELT, I'm gonna put it in a box and ask YOU to put it on the bus and pay for it. Because I will bill an extra 15% to cover me costs.

If you are expecting first rate service done to you schedule, you have to pay for it. Most freelancers do it in there spare time after there full time job is completed.

Using a freelance AME is definitly not for everyone. If you are expecting your annual to be completed in exactly two days, without any delays or interuptions, maybe you should just dig deeper in your pockets and go to an AMO!! You will usually get what you pay for!!

[helicopterray]

No AME in Canada gets that rate.

Heli guys who do bush tours get that rate and more.

[Heliian]

Mr.Mooney has some good points about being prepared with the right manuals and basic tools and a ladder but having your own cube van and parts supplies is a little much. First of all you need to have traceability on anything you install so your "10 cent bolt" is almost worth 5 bucks by the time you install it. Obviously you've had a bad experience with someone but it also sounds like you don't know what actually goes on at an AMO either. Next time when you hire a freelance, try and get a reference maybe from other customers or ask the individual his work experience prior to hiring him/her to do the job. If you want someone cheap who may not have lots of experience on type, you're going to have to be patient.

edited for emotional outburst

[qa guy]

Some very good points here. Just to point out a freelance AME and a mobile AMO are 2 different things requiring 2 different rates.
If you are going to invest money into vehicles and equipment not to mention insurance, it is going to take alot of annuals on 150's to pay for that. I'm thinking $50/hr. is fair value for my time and expertise.

[mmartin1872]

What i don't get is the fact that it takes '2 days to do an annual', by an experienced AME (and thats 2 days of work, working).. In an automotive shop they tell you a wheel bearing is 4 hours, if the mechanic gets it done in 1 or 2, he still gets paid for 4 hours. (And 99% of the mechanics will get it done in 1 or 2 hours.) I just don't understand why owners are willing to pay for 4 hours in an automotive shop, when if they where sitting there they would have seen the job only took 1 or 2, but you go to your AME, and stand over top of them to make sure they didn't take a 5 minute break talking to someone. And to top it off the AMO rate, is less than the shop rate for an auto repair shop. So the autorepair shop makes more money per hour than an amo/ame, and they charge each customer more hours than it actually takes to do the job. I just don't get it..
Mind you, that is why the only time i take my car in to a shop, is when it is a job, that i just don't have the special tools to accomplish the work, because i can't afford to pay someone to do a job, that i can do myself, in less time than they are charging me to do the job.

[photofly]

I just don't understand why owners are willing to pay for 4 hours in an automotive shop, when if they where sitting there they would have seen the job only took 1 or 2, but you go to your AME, and stand over top of them to make sure they didn't take a 5 minute break talking to someone.

If it's a fixed number of hours for a job then I don't care how long it takes because we've agreed the price in advance. If I don't like the price I'd have gone somewhere else. Whether it's 4 hours, or 2, or 16 is immaterial.

If I'm paying time and materials then I want the time I'm paying for to be spent working for me.

[qa guy]

What i don't get is the fact that it takes '2 days to do an annual', by an experienced AME (and thats 2 days of work, working).. In an automotive shop they tell you a wheel bearing is 4 hours, if the mechanic gets it done in 1 or 2, he still gets paid for 4 hours. (And 99% of the mechanics will get it done in 1 or 2 hours.) I just don't understand why owners are willing to pay for 4 hours in an automotive shop, when if they where sitting there they would have seen the job only took 1 or 2, but you go to your AME, and stand over top of them to make sure they didn't take a 5 minute break talking to someone. And to top it off the AMO rate, is less than the shop rate for an auto repair shop. So the autorepair shop makes more money per hour than an amo/ame, and they charge each customer more hours than it actually takes to do the job. I just don't get it..
Mind you, that is why the only time i take my car in to a shop, is when it is a job, that i just don't have the special tools to accomplish the work, because i can't afford to pay someone to do a job, that i can do myself, in less time than they are charging me to do the job.

That is designed so shops dont rip off owners by charging more than the average time required to do the job. It also works both ways. If the mechanic runs into trouble and takes longer he will not get paid for his time. If he is not in a busy shop he will sit around waiting for the next job not getting paid. Only works well in mechanics favour if you are kept busy all day long. I would take hourly over flat rate work any day. But thats just me.