Ice Pilots - Season 3

[flyinthebug]

Just caught this weeks show last night. It looks like Hicks JR has already ruffled Joe`s feathers. Maybe the person who said Hicks has been gone for 7 months now is correct? He sure left alot of the crew holding their dicks when he set up the fuel run contract then bailed home. I do believe we will see his resignation by seasons end. Like I said... he did a great job working with his 337 fleet, but has his hands full trying to keep these hanger queens in the air and making money. I dont envy his position...its gonna be an uphill battle for him to try to convince Joe to change his business model. I just dont think your gonna change Joe even a little bit, so his southern way of managing wont fly up there. Another great episode though! Oh and why do they keep going over to Adlair to visit .? My guess is he will be back shortly.
Keep em coming guys, great show!

[NWO]

Anyone to believe that a contract was awarded 3 days before it begins is pretty far fetched. Again good for TV. Do you possibly think when he left mikey started digging into the contract looking for flaws and getting his dad wound up. Usually when Joe delivers a shit storm people quit. In my opinion he looked pretty humble once the rumors were cleared up.

[Human Factor]

What I don't envy is him trying to find work for the Electras. Can anyone give some insight why Joe chose such a huge, fuel inefficient machine over, say, getting Bazler turbine conversions for his DC-3 fleet? The Electra just seems like overkill for the bulk of the flying that they do.

[LuckyPilot]

Particularly with FirstAir and the 2 Hercs, tough to outbid them. Not to mention, lowest bid isn't always the best bid, you have to take into account the ability of the provider to sustain and support the contract. With only one serviceable A/C, plus one qualified crew, that is a recipe for disaster when trying to fulfill a contract.

[flyinthebug]

Anyone to believe that a contract was awarded 3 days before it begins is pretty far fetched. Again good for TV. Do you possibly think when he left mikey started digging into the contract looking for flaws and getting his dad wound up. Usually when Joe delivers a shit storm people quit. In my opinion he looked pretty humble once the rumors were cleared up.

Allow me to enlighten you... I have had several contracts that were awarded with a start date of 7 days or less. Any professional air service should be ready to service a contract they bid on, on the day they bid it. Many tenders you cannot even bid on unless you have the equipment and its ready to go. Otherwise you would have 100s of bids from numbered companies, that would only lease the required equipment IF they were awarded the contract...alienating the companies that bid and have the equipment (and its expense).

I recall one year that fire contracts were not awarded until April 15th and we started flying patrol (early spring) within a few days. I do realize they sensationalize the story for the drama of TV...but Joe was very clear that Hicks was never to keep him in the dark again about the numbers. That was his concern and it seemed quite realistic and justified. Hicks forgot to include some expenses, and they ate into his margin.

I do agree completely with LuckyPilot that running one machine with one crew is a recipe for at very least ...loss of contract. Time will tell.
Fly safe all.

[CLguy]

Human Factor, the Electra's were picked up for firefighting. Most western provinces want only turbine aircraft and will not accept bids for piston tankers anymore. This means the DC-4 days as a retardent tanker is pretty much over so they need a replacement.

[North Shore]

What does the Electra carry with a tank on?

You'd think that, long run, it'd be cheaper to double down and buy a tanked Q400, and convert it to freight/combi in the winter. Maintenance/fuel/rotables etc..have to be cheaper than going to the ends of the earth for a museum piece like the 188 - especially one that Lockheed is trying to get out of supporting. Plus there have to be 100's of Q400's running around, and how many Electras? 50?

[albertdesalvo]

Joe: Holy sheet, the power has gone out! The whole city of Yellowknife has gone down!

Mikey: Oh boy, this is big time. It's minus 40 outside and if we don't get the power back right away, the pipes along the roof are going to burst!

Hicks: No problem boys, let me consult my think tank in Toronto and I'll get back to you with a solution soon.

Mikey: There's no time for that, you fool. Can't you see things are going to freeze solid any second?

Joe: I know! Let's get all them Herman Nelsons in here and wind 'em up to 120%.

Mikey: Ok, and the frost fighters too. Yeah, that's the ticket!

.: Are you all idiots? Who DF in Yellowknife operates a facility without a backup generator? Who DF would even care if the power went out? It happens all the time. You fire up the genny, reset the furnace, and resume your nap."

Oh, the drama of it all.......

[Indanao]

Why was Joe the only guy who had a beer ?

[Adiabatic]

I think the Electra retardant bombers hold 3000 Gallons, opposed to the DC-4 with 2000 Gallons. We will be using the same tanks that the DC-4s were using, they do have a 3000 Gallon capacity.
We have been flying freight fairly consistently in the last while, for DND, First Air, Canadian North and whoever else wants to give us a go. Sure it's not comparable to a Herc, and it's hard to compete with it, but we do have our place.
We can carry a 30,000lb load to a destination 3 hours away (1000nm), and likewise on shorter trips. If there is Jet-A available at the destination and the strip is 4,300ft long, an alternate close by(a big issue in the north), a max load will be brought in.
I hope exploration picks up and or DND becomes more interested in our machines(sovereignty). They already have infrastructure in place at their bases, i.e. CP-140.
It's difficult to predict the future of the machine. Maybe it will just be a bomber, much more expensive one for the GNWT.

[Canuck223]

.: Are you all idiots? Who DF in Yellowknife operates a facility without a backup generator? Who DF would even care if the power went out? It happens all the time. You fire up the genny, reset the furnace, and resume your nap."

Oh, the drama of it all.......

Those were my thoughts exactly. They have GPU's for the planes, and don't have a generator big enough to keep the heating system up?

[Lost in Saigon]

When the electricity went off, it caused a problem with the boiler. The power came back on, but for some reason they couldn't get the boiler restarted. That is why they needed to heat the hangar with the portable heaters.

[Canuck223]

When the electricity went off, it caused a problem with the boiler. The power came back on, but for some reason they couldn't get the boiler restarted. That is why they needed to heat the hangar with the portable heaters.

The fuel master probably tripped as the power cycled while the power cut, then came back on. Most have sensors to make sure that the burner has air, fuel flow, and heat. Trip one of those sensors and the system shuts down. It's just a matter of hitting the reset (as long as the conditions causing the problem have been fixed.)

Mikey commented on a burst glycol unit, which is odd. It's possible that if they had a leaking unit, the boiler wouldn't fire due to it's low water sensor tripping. If it's a hot water system vs a steam boiler, it should be 100% flooded aside from a cushion tank located at the highest point in the system. If a line burst and the make-up water hadn't come up or kept up, the boiler wouldn't fire.

The point I was trying to make was that the cost of a generator big enough to keep the vital systems running if cheaper than the costs to the business doing without.

[Beach 200]

Why was Joe the only guy who had a beer ?

HA HA

I was wondering the same thing. Hicks quit drinking so maybe it was to piss him off!

[jspitfire]

Particularly with FirstAir and the 2 Hercs, tough to outbid them. Not to mention, lowest bid isn't always the best bid, you have to take into account the ability of the provider to sustain and support the contract. With only one serviceable A/C, plus one qualified crew, that is a recipe for disaster when trying to fulfill a contract.

What I don't envy is him trying to find work for the Electras. Can anyone give some insight why Joe chose such a huge, fuel inefficient machine over, say, getting Bazler turbine conversions for his DC-3 fleet? The Electra just seems like overkill for the bulk of the flying that they do.

You see the Electra in Hope Bay on a regular basis during ice strip season. They seem fairly busy in the spring, could be partly because there's simply too much work for First Air's Hercs to handle.

[albertdesalvo]

The point I was trying to make was that the cost of a generator big enough to keep the vital systems running if cheaper than the costs to the business doing without.

Exactly. Which is why they surely have one. So the "crisis" was created by some TV scriptwriters. Just like the "crisis" when the ferry was down for a couple of days and the big "emergency airlift" was on. You'da thought they were saving Berlin from starving. This show is getting so phony it's starting to look like a comedy. Only Hedley can save the day now.

[jspitfire]

Just like the "crisis" when the ferry was down for a couple of days and the big "emergency airlift" was on. You'da thought they were saving Berlin from starving. This show is getting so phony it's starting to look like a comedy. Only Hedley can save the day now.

Were you in Yellowknife last fall when the ferry was out? There was definitely some panic. All of the gas stations were run dry, a couple stations ended up flying fuel in and charging $1.99/ltr for it. The hospital's heating runs on propane, and when that ran out more had to be flown in. And if grocery stores wanted to remain stocked, they needed to fly it in.

Don't forget that food for many of the remote communities is supplied by air from Yellowknife too. The C-46 that does the valley run 4 or 5 times a week would have to go fetch all it's groceries in Hay River. As with groceries for Kugluktuk, Cambridge Bay, the diamond mines, etc, etc.

The ferry's actually been out for the past few days again this year, and extra flights were put on right away. From the DOT website:


In the spring they have a much better idea of if and when the ferry will go out, so they actually base a chopper in Fort Providence for the 3-4 weeks, and it slings Yellowknife's groceries across the river.

[godsrcrazy]

What I don't envy is him trying to find work for the Electras. Can anyone give some insight why Joe chose such a huge, fuel inefficient machine over, say, getting Bazler turbine conversions for his DC-3 fleet? The Electra just seems like overkill for the bulk of the flying that they do.

Most likely because the probably bought all them Electra for less then 1/2 the price of Basler conversion on 1 of them old DC3's

[Indanao]

Good Basler Link : http://www.baslerturbo.com/versatility.aspx

There's used ones cheaper, but a new conversion is ? $ ( I've seen them advertised quite high. I thought it was 12$ million. My bad.)

This is from their article at " http://www.airportjournals.com/Display. ... ID=0701012"

The basic BT-67 aircraft costs $4.5 million, and an aircraft equipped with maximum capability would run $13-plus million.
Such an aircraft is classified, but it would probably contain search radar, infrared, intelligence of some level, listening
devices, secure communications, night vision compatibility, an on-board oxygen generation system and probably a gun capability."Every year we make some changes," said Weight. "Most of them come from our customers who ask, for example, 'Can you build a glass cockpit?"

[FlyGy]

The point I was trying to make was that the cost of a generator big enough to keep the vital systems running if cheaper than the costs to the business doing without.

Exactly. Which is why they surely have one. So the "crisis" was created by some TV scriptwriters. Just like the "crisis" when the ferry was down for a couple of days and the big "emergency airlift" was on. You'da thought they were saving Berlin from starving. This show is getting so phony it's starting to look like a comedy. Only Hedley can save the day now.

Did you guys happen to notice that when the power was "out" the ceiling fans were operating?

[North Shore]

The ferry's actually been out for the past few days again this year, and extra flights were put on right away. From the DOT website:


In the spring they have a much better idea of if and when the ferry will go out, so they actually base a chopper in Fort Providence for the 3-4 weeks, and it slings Yellowknife's groceries across the river.

Nice pictures...how long until the bridge is finished, and sayonara to the ferry?

[albertdesalvo]

The ferry's actually been out for the past few days again this year, and extra flights were put on right away.

Whoah! Is that an emergency airlift?

In the spring they have a much better idea of if and when the ferry will go out, so they actually base a chopper in Fort Providence for the 3-4 weeks, and it slings Yellowknife's groceries across the river.

I guess that would be an emergency airlift too???

Good thing Buffalo is around to deal with all these emergencies, lord knows how the people of YK would get by without those brave aviators.

[Human Factor]

Not sure of the wisdom of Adam calling his boss (Duane) a "bitch" to his face. Maybe he's been scripted by the network to be the next . but he comes off like a bit of a mouthpiece.

[flyinthebug]

Not sure of the wisdom of Adam calling his boss (Duane) a "bitch" to his face. Maybe he's been scripted by the network to be the next . but he comes off like a bit of a mouthpiece.

He made up for it with his "praise" for the boss at the end.

[hawker driver]

I found it funny that Mikie was surprised that the rampie quit when a flying job came up.

What do they pay the guys who work the ramp?

My first job involved ramp/dispatch work as well as flying. You worked the ramp one week then Fly the next week. It keep the guys around a while since you were flying part time right away. It really improved moral as well.